Nachos and Fried Oreos - 6 - Nachos and Fried Oreos

[Leet]

what if whenever someone said they liked something someone replied "that just means it is for you"

[KobaBeach]

im sorry okay i was just so used to people going "this isn't fun for me so it's a bad game and no one should like it"

give me a break (´・ω・`)

[MiracleWater]

For those curious, here's a breakdown of things affected by difficulty.

Beginner
Start with 99 lives (actually infinite)
Dragon Coins give you 5 lives
Moons give you 3 lives

Advanced
Start with 15 lives
Dragon Coins give you 5 lives
Moons gives you 3 live

Expert
Start with 5 lives
Dragon Coins give you 3 lives
Moon give you 2 live

Master
Start with 1 life
Dragon Coins give you 1 life
Moons give you 1 life

Master is unlocked after beating the game on any other difficulty.

Sadistic mode can be enabled on any difficulty except Beginner and any method of gaining lives (DCs, moon, 100 coins, etc...) is removed.

Shoutout to morsel who, to my knowledge, is the only one who has beaten the game on Master + Sadistic.

In case it was unclear, the message box at the beginning of level 2 applies to the entire game. Disabling pause while midair is to prevent the player from pausing just before falling into a pit and resetting the game, thus saving a life.

Regarding the shy guys, we felt color was enough indication as to how they'll interact with Mario. Unfortunately, a certain streamer who is colorblind had quite a bit of trouble with this one. So yes, some form of graphical change might have been a better decision.

[KobaBeach]

Shoutout to morsel who, to my knowledge, is the only one who has beaten the game on Master + Sadistic.

Not surprised.

I'm usually a person who thinks about how a disabled person would deal with some stuff (like a blind person playing Space Channel 5, some parts such as the Jaguar "spot the fake" sequence in Part 2's Report 5 would be practically impossible, due to relying on visual tells near the end), but I didn't consider colorblind people with the Pogo Guy gimmick.

I believe there are online "colorblind testers" for color selections out there, can't vouch for the accuracy of those.

[Reecer7]

ah, i figured from the wording of sadistic mode prohibiting gaining health that it meant you weren't even allowed mushrooms. having one hit for an entire game is slightly more annoying than having one life.

i think this game's concept is super cool! even if i'm in ashan's camp that lives/permadeath in a scripted linear progression game is nothing but tedium for me. but i guess that's part of why i barely play actiony games in general. i just really respect the way that this design means every level actually has to care about life and dagadon placement, which smw hacks don't ever?

[Sugar]

I think the fact that lives are important in this hack is very significant to the experience.

After playing hacks for a while, most people go through a process where re-doing a lot of things becomes less and less dreadful. This effect essentially curbs a ton of pressure off of said player -- the threat of failure is far lessened because in the end, it's just a matter of time until the video game is beaten. There's no real consequence to failing, aside from having to invest more time. There's no real consequences to doing good, either. Levels are all or nothing -- either you pass, or either you fail.

For expert players, the only the one thing that can tap into the pressure are marathons, and only if the marathon in question is dull.

And then there's this hack. Lives matter. Doing good matters. Failing matters. The gimmick isn't there just for show -- It puts a lot of pressure back into the game. At its core, it can make playing the game a very distinct, perhaps much heavier experience.

I feel that this is something that only amateur mediums such as ROMhacks can "get away with" in this day and age.

I very much agree with this. The game does provide Beginner difficulty, but there is a reason why I explicitly told raocow to not use it - having infinite lives encourages considering this hack as if it was another Kaizo ROM hack, and casually wasting lives.

This is not a Kaizo ROM hack, it shouldn't be played as if it was a Kaizo ROM hack - you shouldn't rush into obstacles. Losing lives has to hurt so that the player won't be too casual with lives - every single life matters. It's kinda like 100 Mario Challenge in Super Mario Maker or Rayman 1 - the possibility of losing makes every life feel meaningful.

Yes, you can continue by regaining the progress after Game Over - this will take an hour or so in later parts of the game. It's not too much while still feeling meaningful. Maybe the penalty could be improved on, but at the same time, early levels provide opportunity for obtaining lives, so I think it's fine as it is.

[Paragraph]

I think the fact that the game DOES have an infinite lives mode absolves it of almost all criticism regarding The Life And Difficulty Debate. Because then it's really up to the player, an it's fine of the designer to expect some level of "personal responsibility" from the people playing their game.

This also allows for a compromise style of play - if you don't like the idea of not seeing later content because you know you don't have the patience of replaying the beginning part again and again to have enough lives for the final levels, you can always just play it on infinite lives, and then decide "hey this is actually really fun" and try it with limited lives to see how far you can go. The game's designed to be replayed (a bunch) anyway, so that shouldn't be a hard sell.

[LunarRainbowShyGuy]

I'm thinking about giving this a try, but before I do I figure I should give my thoughts on the whole 'lives matter' situation first so that I can look back and see if my opinion is any different after the fact. Personally, I kind of like the idea of lives actually being meaningful. If this were something really long I might think differently, but this is just a 15 exit hack; that's comparable to the original Super Mario Bros. in terms of length, and that had the same kind of thing going on but it was still a fine game. Although something tells me that the people that don't like the idea of starting over in this game probably aren't a fan of starting over in old games like SMB1 either, and that's understandable; I will say that in general it's probably better that that's mostly just a thing of the past now. Ultimately though I feel like it couldn't be more of a non issue here; if you don't like it you don't have to deal with it at all.

[General_Urist]

Arithmetic Mean? More like mean arithmetic!

Man, raocow's perfect run at the end there was so satisfyingly smooth.

[Ashan]

I'm thinking about giving this a try, but before I do I figure I should give my thoughts on the whole 'lives matter' situation first so that I can look back and see if my opinion is any different after the fact. Personally, I kind of like the idea of lives actually being meaningful. If this were something really long I might think differently, but this is just a 15 exit hack; that's comparable to the original Super Mario Bros. in terms of length, and that had the same kind of thing going on but it was still a fine game. Although something tells me that the people that don't like the idea of starting over in this game probably aren't a fan of starting over in old games like SMB1 either, and that's understandable; I will say that in general it's probably better that that's mostly just a thing of the past now. Ultimately though I feel like it couldn't be more of a non issue here; if you don't like it you don't have to deal with it at all.

I actually made a thread a few months ago asking if anyone has beaten SMB1 all the way through without warps or the A+start title screen continue trick, and Bean was the single person in the thread who has done it. And maybe Argumentable but I'm not sure if that is an implied claim in his post.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=18769

[raocow]

I mean. I have.

[SAJewers]

Prove it

[Kilgamayan]

Arithmetic Mean looked fun as hell, if agita-inducing to the nth degree.

[Ashan]

I mean. I have.

It's not official unless you say it in the thread

[raocow]

looks like I have a mini lp to do after NaFO

[Mandew]

I actually made a thread a few months ago asking if anyone has beaten SMB1 all the way through without warps or the A+start title screen continue trick, and Bean was the single person in the thread who has done it. And maybe Argumentable but I'm not sure if that is an implied claim in his post.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=18769

I've actually beaten it like that with a single death.
That single death was to the very first goomba in the game.
Technically not deathless.

[AuraLancer]

I have also beaten SMB1 without warping or the title thing. 2 and 3 as well. I think 3 is actually harder if you skip ahead anyway.

[SAJewers]

I have also beaten SMB1 without warping or the title thing. 2 and 3 as well.

2 USA or 2 Japan?

[Piesonscreations]

Don't know how raocow interpreted that song as menacing tbh lol

[warpio]

I definitely think there is still value to this arcade-like system where lives matter. It's a very different feeling experience compared to a game where you only need to worry about your individual level progress. But it requires a different mindset to really appreciate it.

In the more typical modern game style you're expecting the game to always be providing you with new content for the entire duration of the experience. You get passed a roadblock, you gain new content, no exceptions. That's the expectation that I'd imagine most people who are used to modern gaming would have with their games.

But in arcade-style games, the game itself IS the roadblock. You make an attempt and you either conquer it or you don't. This kind of game style can make the endings of games feel a lot more satisfying in a way that modern games mostly haven't been able to replicate.

[Kilgamayan]

"When I was a kid I killed as many of these small animals as possible so I could see how cute they were as they died." - raocow, 4/1/20

[AuraLancer]

I have also beaten SMB1 without warping or the title thing. 2 and 3 as well.

2 USA or 2 Japan?

I meant USA, but both.

Also it seems someone likes Final Fantasy music

[raocow]

aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[freshtalk]

Oh no, I wonder if we are in for the ultimate example of dying at the end.

[AuraLancer]

the death of the incredible huge?