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Iconoclasts - I can't believe it. Humans are so flaky. I knew I should have asked the tengu about this instead.

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
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Bean
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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby Bean » 1 month ago

Put it in the ispoiler boxes just to be safe there.

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Kilgamayan
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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby Kilgamayan » 1 month ago

Thank you kindly o/
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Piesonscreations
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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby Piesonscreations » 1 month ago

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thatguyif
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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby thatguyif » 1 month ago

Moving on from certain rantings...

I will keep saying: That Stun Gun Recoil Jump will help you do things you wouldn't be able to do otherwise. Be sure to play around with it when you want to explore!

Say hello to Royal. Royal, as we have seen here...he's a bit much.

Boss fights in this game tend to fit the profile of figure out the attack, learn to dodge, attack when convenient. Just something to keep in mind.

In response to the whole "prison" bit where you said "they said they would lock me up for the night..." No, they locked you up to prep for your Penance (i.e. your execution). That's basically what they said.

Tomorrow, I get reveal some important details about this game's development!

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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby strongbadman » 1 month ago

So I have a bit of an issue with the difficulty. For the explory bits Harder Mode can be a bit much. Especially when it comes to item hunting, where a few bad hits can take you out completely. That part of the game might be better suited for normal, but then the bosses suffer. You take a lot less damage in normal, to the point where the iron hearts are worth far less for you. Ultimately, if you like the challenge then the bosses being more tense makes up for the other bits, because holy hell the bosses are VERY good!

The tweak system also leads to some interesting strategies. Say you only want one iron heart and two other tweaks. How do you order them? Having the heart in the first spot is free armor, but if you get hit a bunch in rapid succession you'll have to get a lot of juice to get it back. Having it last means you can get it back faster if you're down to it, but also that you'll eat damage before you gdt to the armor. And getting back the other two tweaks means the armor won't protect you.

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Grounder
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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby Grounder » 1 month ago

I always wanted a sequel to Facade. Can't say I understand the complete graphic overhaul, though.

At least Robin didn't get stuck in the couch.
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby thatguyif » 1 month ago

And now I get to do some fun development facts! Woo!

Konjak's first major game project was called "Mina of the Pirates," an action game that he never finished circa 2005. It had this pirate named Mina going after various creatures for treasure. In this video, the redhaired lady you spoke to early on is based entirely on Mina's character design in that game, though her name got passed on to the smelly pirate we know and love.

After this, Konjak developed a platformer called Noitu Love and the Army of the Grinning Darns. This freeware game was his first completed project. It would have a sequel 3 years later called Noitu Love 2: Devolution, which got published on multiple systems. Between this time, in 2007, he developed the first concept of Iconoclasts, called Ivory Springs. This was also never completed (for obvious reasons). The design of Ivory Springs is based heavily on the original Noitu Love's aesthetics, including its UI. The game was also originally meant to be more lighthearted and silly than what became Iconoclasts, again influenced by Noitu Love to some degree.

Noitu Love can be downloaded here for free from Konjak's site. You can also play the Mina and Ivory Springs concepts for free, though they may not run on newer systems. You can get Noitu Love 2 for 5 dollars on Steam.

Now, on the game: I think you sort of got this, but a reminder that Tweak Schematics simply give you more Tweaks to craft. You can't craft Tweaks if you lack the materials for them.

Storyline element that doesn't really get expressed well due to writing issues: People in the settlements under the auspices of the One Concern are basically denied freedom of movement. This is hinted at by Mrs. Andress being killed via the Penance for creating maps to forage for mushrooms, as well as Myron being the most wanted criminal for trying to map the world. It's also hinted at with Laurie, who ran away from her Settlement. Essentially, Mina's mother is a fugitive for running away from her settlement and thus the Concern. The only real movement allowed is the ability to move to City One, as suggested by Thor at the start of the game. But you can only do that if you're considered "pure" enough.

Important gameplay note that should be obvious: If you dash-swim like you were today, you will lose your air supply faster than if you don't over the same distance. Swimming normally should do you fine.

You did scroll over a bit of the story during the cutscene, but the reason for the somewhat sexual iconography is that the "pirates" function under a fertility cult. Procreation is highly valued in this community.

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The Doctor
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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby The Doctor » 1 month ago

I tried playing this game on my own a while ago, but I didn't enjoy myself. The level design was tedious and the story was convoluted. Okay, the bosses were awesome (except for that one. You know which one I mean), but I disliked everything else about the game. I got pretty far in the game too, but I couldn't force myself to finish it. I couldn't understand what everyone else saw in this game.

But you know what? I am loving this LP. I finally see why people love this game so much. I dunno, maybe some games are just better watched than played?

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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby thatguyif » 1 month ago

I never saw the level design as that tedious...? But I get what a lot of people say about the story. I think the story got trapped in two problems: A very long development cycle, and the fact that Konjak (while Swedish) isn't a native English speaker. The former makes you pile on story, the latter makes it hard to simplify things and apply nuance (especially when you don't have an editor to make these adjustments).

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The Doctor
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Re: Iconoclasts - Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.

Postby The Doctor » 1 month ago

I think what's helping the story in the LP is that I both have more time to digest it and I can read comments from others if I get confused or miss something. It's really hard to follow the story in this game while you're playing it by yourself.

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Kilgamayan
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Re: Iconoclasts - Please, tell her to just stay there and not come back above ground.

Postby Kilgamayan » 1 month ago

I've added a small Side Quests subsection to the OP. It's based entirely on information you have been given by the game and will not contain any hints (unless you hit endgame without finishing something you started, in which case I might change my mind at that point, we'll see). Feel free to review it as you see fit.
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thatguyif
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Re: Iconoclasts - Please, tell her to just eat a pancake.

Postby thatguyif » 1 month ago

Kilgamayan wrote: I've added a small Side Quests subsection to the OP. It's based entirely on information you have been given by the game and will not contain any hints (unless you hit endgame without finishing something you started, in which case I might change my mind at that point, we'll see). Feel free to review it as you see fit.
I'm willing to provide a list of what needs to be done in terms of stuff that needs to be done when endgame is reached. I'll keep a running list on hand and post/PM it when we reach that point. This may or may not include crafting materials.

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Kilgamayan
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Re: Iconoclasts - Please, tell her to just stay there and not come back above ground.

Postby Kilgamayan » 1 month ago

I mean

I'll be completely honest, I don't really trust anyone that wants to be helpful to phrase and spoiler-mark their help properly. Even for endgame I can see things going wrong and well-intended people doing bad things, like

giving explicit instructions on where to go to find Leticia

. I admit I am of this opinion for literally any game raoguy plays, but it applies even more so here because (a) it's extremely easy to spoil stuff in this game even if the information is well-intended, and (b) there have already been a number of things posted in this thread that I think should have been spoiler-tagged or outright not posted at all (and a mod has already had to step in once).

But I can't exactly stop anyone from posting in this thread or sending raoguy PMs.

So, uh, do whatever you want to do, I guess. As long as you don't actually break any forum rules, all you need to worry about is the possibility that a person might be Mad At You On The Internet if you do it "wrong".
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Cyril
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Re: Iconoclasts - Please, tell her to just stay there and not come back above ground.

Postby Cyril » 1 month ago

RIP raocow - perished
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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repairmanman
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Re: Iconoclasts - Please, tell her to just stay there and not come back above ground.

Postby repairmanman » 1 month ago

I've always been bothered that robin's profile next to mina's is so much darker than her sprite. It's a small thing but the inconsistency bothers me.

I've always liked this boss, it was cool getting to use a character other than robin, her wrench always seemed too clumsy for me to use.
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thatguyif
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Re: Iconoclasts - Please, tell her to just stay there and not come back above ground.

Postby thatguyif » 1 month ago

Kilgamayan wrote: (b) there have already been a number of things posted in this thread that I think should have been spoiler-tagged or outright not posted at all (and a mod has already had to step in once).

But I can't exactly stop anyone from posting in this thread or sending raoguy PMs.

So, uh, do whatever you want to do, I guess. As long as you don't actually break any forum rules, all you need to worry about is the possibility that a person might be Mad At You On The Internet if you do it "wrong".
With all due respect, you're going about this in a way that comes off as extremely wishy-washy and passive aggressive. If you really have issues with any of us spoiling it, just say who you have issue with. For my part, I have "spoiled" maybe one thing (something incredibly vague and will likely be forgotten by the time it actually matters). The rest of what I've said is stuff that already happened in the videos, or is stuff that is never actually brought up in the game or are unsaid but hinted at heavily (again, the writing isn't exactly the most stellar), to say nothing of background on the game's development. Whenever I bring up points relevant to the game that haven't appeared yet, I made sure to hide them. Maybe it wasn't your intent, but your statement comes off as a halfhearted accusation.

For the endgame stuff, if raocow wants it, I'll supply a list of endgame things with some general direction but not specifics. What I don't want is raocow aimlessly looking for things, because some of them do get esoteric in terms of placement. I know I had a lot of trouble finding things and needed a guide for some.

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Kilgamayan
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Re: Iconoclasts - It was an accident.

Postby Kilgamayan » 1 month ago

I didn't name anyone because my post was intended to be a general statement. >_>

Anyway, this boss! I love everything about this boss. The visual storytelling, the puzzle solving, the non-trivial dodging, the hilarious face and resolution, it's all good.
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Kilgamayan
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Re: Iconoclasts - You're an energetic human.

Postby Kilgamayan » 1 month ago

Congrats on killing a person! Well, Mina did it, but still.

I feel like, if you're enjoying yourself, you should feel free to keep playing. Have some fun! If anything, it leads to more content for the rest of us (and fewer thread titles I need to produce).
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strongbadman
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Re: Iconoclasts - You're an energetic human.

Postby strongbadman » 1 month ago

I know it's mpstly a platforming challege, but I like that the boss from yesterday is basically immediately followed up by another boss. That hapened with the Pirate mech and Chrome's helicopter as well, but there was slightly more inbetween those. For those keeping count, that's 6 bosses in 7 episodes- 7 if you count the non transformed helicopter as its own boss.

White's death is fairly brutal, and kinda horrifying if you think about what happened.

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Re: Iconoclasts - You're an energetic human.

Postby thatguyif » 1 month ago

Very well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And we are formally introduced to my man, Gustavo! He's great...

Anyway, yeah, it's pretty gross that jamming seeds into an Ivory-filled being like an agent can kill them/turn them into white fruit trees. My suspicion is that, because they can heal rapidly, it's not that gross? I dunno

strongbadman
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Re: Iconoclasts - You're an energetic human.

Postby strongbadman » 1 month ago

thatguyif wrote: Very well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And we are formally introduced to my man, Gustavo! He's great...

Anyway, yeah, it's pretty gross that jamming seeds into an Ivory-filled being like an agent can kill them/turn them into white fruit trees. My suspicion is that, because they can heal rapidly, it's not that gross? I dunno
It's less gross(but yes, still gross) and more like,

Even if you could heal out of this, it can't feel very good.

And this game's side characters are all mostly pretty good and cool, as evidenced by Samba and Gustavo. This game's writing is the product of ~8 years, for both good and bad.

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Re: Iconoclasts - You're an energetic human.

Postby Joseph Staleknight » 1 month ago

strongbadman wrote:White's death is fairly brutal, and kinda horrifying if you think about what happened.
I couldn't help but be reminded of when someone got sprouted in Grim Fandango when I saw White bite it. Only now, it's more violent because he wasn't just getting turned into flowers.

Also, yeah, the side characters feel really well developed so far. Samba has a really great dynamic with Mina, and the former commenting on the latter's stink is pretty funny too.
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Cyril
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Re: Iconoclasts - You're an energetic human.

Postby Cyril » 1 month ago

wait... rao... you DON'T have an idle animation irl?

i'm ashamed of you.
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

thatguyif
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Re: Iconoclasts - You're an energetic human.

Postby thatguyif » 1 month ago

Soooo, this was a video.

I will make a rare comment about Mina's mom (who I think goes by Minora). Minora's mom kind of represents some of the subtle stereotypes portrayed of disabled people - Namely that they're incapable of taking care of themselves and incapable of independence, and need people to care for them. It's a sad stereotype that's pushed a lot by certain factions, even those in the broader disabled community. As someone who has constantly lived in fear of being seen as this, it's a bit upsetting.

Moreover, Mina's mom comes off as using her disability as a means to manipulate her daughter, which relates to the above stereotype. I suspect part of the reason why Mina is away from Isilugar so much is because she doesn't want to be near her mom. (There are other reasons, some of which have been hinted and will reveal themselves in time)

Anyway, yay, you got the electric wrench! And you also figured out most of its effects! There are others, but you'll see them when appropriate.

I will say: For that particular area of Glass Strait, exploring the entirety of it requires only one Breathless tweak. You just have to swim slow (and accept some damage along the way). That said, this area isn't all that important right now, so you can skip exploring it and move on.


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Re: Iconoclasts - But, they're always dirtying up our rivers...

Postby Kilgamayan » 1 month ago

My second-favorite part was where you recognized that it was difficult getting the ivory oil but didn't bother going back one screen to the left to save right after getting it.

My favorite part was when you didn't do this again the second time.
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