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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 01:35
by Ditocoaf
Sebby19 wrote: Finally, NEVER USE Mode 2. It's completely superfluous.
It looks like Mode 2 is there to teach/practice the timing for Mode 3, since Mode 1 has different timing. One of those "games are designed around the assumption that you haven't learned anything about them yet" things.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 02:15
by Count Mohawk
The Border Jump minigame isn't the only way to get Hee Beans, but if you get really good at Border Jump Sunshine it is definitely the fastest. (Complete Border Jump is fun to try once, just to say you did it, but it's generally not worth the effort.)

You'll want to remember to come back here if you want the equipment rewards for brewing up the coffees.


Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 02:41
by ano0maly
I think it would have been better to stop video 3b somewhere during Stardust Fields, maybe after you learn the Bros. Moves, and finish the rest of this zone and the boss the next day. You already had the minigame and some exploration in this zone, so that's enough content for the day. Basically, don't feel that you need to complete a whole region in one video. Regions can get long.

I suggest just approaching the game piecemeal with a chunk of exploration/content at a time, like you did in Metroidvania or exploration games.
General_Urist wrote: Also, higher difficulty attacks do more damage on top of costing less.
I don't think that's actually true?
Ditocoaf wrote:
Sebby19 wrote: Finally, NEVER USE Mode 2. It's completely superfluous.
It looks like Mode 2 is there to teach/practice the timing for Mode 3, since Mode 1 has different timing. One of those "games are designed around the assumption that you haven't learned anything about them yet" things.
Even when I was playing the game for the first time I thought Mode 2 was superflous since 1) it costs same BP as Mode 1 and 2)

even if Mode 3 doesn't show the buttons to press, it indicates the timing with red or green flashes, which tell you what to press.

I would say just switch to Mode 3 once you get familiar with the input steps, in order to save BP.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 02:56
by Ashan
Boy oh boy, you came pretty close to dying in that battle and I'm glad you didn't cause it was a while since you saved.

Something I think you should should really make sure to understand is that there isn't a "jump button" in this game, cause I've heard you mention the "jump button" a few times. The game really wants to push the idea that the A button is for all things Mario and the B button is for all things Luigi. The only exception is when you make Luigi walk in front in which case they swap control buttons. I think this is the reason they got rid of the swapping in the next game and onward, to fully cement the A = Mario, B = Luigi idea.

You seemed to figure it out but were confused that some attacks are dodged by not doing anything. You're right, and that's kinda just... part of the challenge! You gotta watch for the different types of attacks, sometimes you gotta jump over a thing, sometimes the thing goes over you and jumping will cause you to jump into it. I think you're having some issues with the perspective, and it's understandable because there's lots of kinda confusing perspective issues in this game. I'd suggest to just watch for shadows to understand where things are in relation to each other.

And also, I don't know if this is really some kind of spoiler but just a tip for being able to get the stomp at the beginning of the battle:

just jump both bros at the same time, or have back guy jump a few frames later (like, tap A then B quickly after). If both guys are in the air, even if you move too fast and overshoot with the first guy, the back guy won't run straight into the enemy and get stunned for the beginning of the battle.


Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 04:00
by Sebby19
To elaborate on what I mean by the uselessness of Mode 2, some of what ano0maly said is correct, so I'll just reinforce that. Mode 2 has the full speed of Mode 3, the high BP cost and button prompts of Mode 1, and damage output somewhere between the two.

But as we've seen in the video, Mario and Luigi still flash red/green in Mode 3, so what was Mode 2's advantage again...?


But Mode 3 does a hella more damage compared to Mode 1. The difference is most notable with

Chopper Bros., since Mode 1 severely limits the number of airborn hits


My first time, I used Mode 1 I think well into the next major area, so no shame in that when you're still learning the game.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 04:09
by Sebby19
Also, does anyone imagine Tolstar's voice to sound like Bubblebass (from Spongebob).
And Fawful would have a high shrill voice (just based on his ingame chortle).

I wonder if I should dig up my old 1990s microphone and record Tolstar's dialogue, and Fawful's 'mustard of doom' speech.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 06:19
by Zach808
One thing you might have to pick up on is reading how bosses telegraph their attacks. During the Tolstar fight, whenever he's about to throw a high-bouncing spike ball, he goes "NYEEEECK!" He doesn't telegraph who he's attacking, but fortunately this is a fight where you could simply jump or not jump with both bros and be fine. It won't always be obvious at first, and I won't spoil any more fights, but with a little practice you should be able to pick up on things.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 06:31
by Implo
Wow, raocow is really bad in noticing stuff in this game compared to SMW hacks. Maybe it's because this game has deepness.

Also I remember that I discovered that I can choose my bonus stat at the very end of the game. Through the whole game I was putting points into Health. That's probably the best choice for people who never played the game and just want to learn how to dodge attacks

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 06:36
by Arctangent
let's be real this is just how he normally is vs projectiles in mario games, it's just instinctual for him to panic jump into stuff that's meant to hit jumpers and not standers

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 07:52
by LunarRainbowShyGuy
I tend to adapt to things pretty quickly, which is great when I'm playing a game for the first time, but when I'm watching someone else play a game for the first time... well I'd be lying if I said it doesn't get frustrating at times. Although I'll try to avoid complaining about raocow's gameplay too much, and, despite some difficulties early on, I feel like raocow will figure things out eventually. On the topic of complaining, I do feel like this video went on a bit too long. I normally wouldn't mind such a long video too much, but after a while it seemed like raocow wasn't enjoying himself, though maybe that hour long Mario session he mentioned had a part in that.

Anyway, I didn't think there was anything in yesterday's video for me to comment on, but there's been some interesting discussions that I kind of want to throw my two cents into. First, in regards to damage numbers, I don't really care that much. Though high damage numbers do have the potential to do something that I don't like where it feels like you get stronger really slowly. For instance, if your damage dealt were to increase from 10 to 11 that's a fairly decent increase. On the other hand if your damage dealt increases from 100 to 101, that's basically irrelevant. Ideally things would feel so natural that I barely even notice the damage numbers, but that only really happens in action RPGs.

I think there were other things I wanted to talk about, but I forget what they were, I'm kind of tired right now, and I feel like this post is getting kind of long, so I'll probably talk about them some other time.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 10:30
by eltiolavara9
man this game's minigames

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 11:28
by freshtalk
Everyone's already given the helpful advice, so I'll just comment that I find it amusing how raocow asks aloud to himself several times with such confusion in his voice 'Do you just not do anything?' to the spike balls that go over your head. Like, he makes it sound like such an unbelievable and alien concept and I have no idea why? Just thought that was kinda funny.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 12:24
by Paragraph
freshtalk wrote: Everyone's already given the helpful advice, so I'll just comment that I find it amusing how raocow asks aloud to himself several times with such confusion in his voice 'Do you just not do anything?' to the spike balls that go over your head. Like, he makes it sound like such an unbelievable and alien concept and I have no idea why? Just thought that was kinda funny.
I guess if you're used to insane platforming challenges where you have to press ALL THE BUTTONS at the same time to run and spinjump and thread the needle between bullet hell shots, the idea of "dodge by either pressing the button...or NOT!!!" seems a little alien, maybe?

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 13:13
by RobinLSL
Re: damage numbers. If you don't like small numbers, just pretend there's a "k" attached to all of them, thus making 9 into 9000!

Also, I trust rao will adapt and improve. This game is super light on the RPG mechanics, as you basically only ever attack, and heal when needed. There's a tiny bit of elemental RPS and buffs, but not much at all I think. So, if he learns how to read tells and button positions, he will be all fine.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 14:22
by 10204307
Zach808 wrote: One thing you might have to pick up on is reading how bosses telegraph their attacks. During the Tolstar fight, whenever he's about to throw a high-bouncing spike ball, he goes "NYEEEECK!" He doesn't telegraph who he's attacking, but fortunately this is a fight where you could simply jump or not jump with both bros and be fine. It won't always be obvious at first, and I won't spoil any more fights, but with a little practice you should be able to pick up on things.
You can tell who Tolstar's aiming at based on which hand he throws the spike ball with.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 17:10
by Blivsey
actually can we appreciate the graphics on the border jump rope? it looks really clean for gba and moves realistically

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 18:03
by Shard1697
Is raocow still playing with A button below B button? Would be worth changing those around.

Also probably worth swapping start and select tbh. although it's worth mentioning the reason this game uses start to swap positions instead of select is because start is on the righthand side of the GBA, not the left like select, so you don't have to take your thumb off of the dpad to swap and can keep moving

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 19:20
by Mandew
Shard1697 wrote: Is raocow still playing with A button below B button? Would be worth changing those around.

Also probably worth swapping start and select tbh. although it's worth mentioning the reason this game uses start to swap positions instead of select is because start is on the righthand side of the GBA, not the left like select, so you don't have to take your thumb off of the dpad to swap and can keep moving
It's moreso because of this:

Image

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 19:27
by Ashan
Tangentially related but isn't it weird how start and select didn't get changed/renamed on console controllers until pretty recently even though they were never used for starting or selecting since like the NES days

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Challenge World

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 21:50
by SAJewers
Image

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Challenge World

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 22:20
by Chirei
raocow has discovered vital high level play mechanics:

if you're not sure, jump with both

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Challenge World

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 22:21
by Sebby19
Where is that image from? EDIT: Got it, that Mario + Rabbid crossover

-Who told raocow about the

Luigi floatation device?


-The machine where you spit water and got coins, it occasionally gives mushrooms too.
-Luigi looks thirsty
-Those Beanies are essentially the Goombas of the Beanbean Kingdom.
-There is a way to tell if a Beanie will trip or not. Can you figure it out?
-"All this syrup is saying the game wants me to use Bros. attacks" Absolutely! Its a really good thing to begin practising them now, even on these regular enemies. I feel the Bros. Attacks are the heart of the combat system, the M&L games live and die by them.

After you reach the peak of Hoohoo Mountain, everyone in the village has new dialogue

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Challenge World

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 22:28
by Ashan
I found the sprites of those bean knights at the beginning very confusing as a kid. I thought the flipped up visors on their helmets was their faces, and so all I could see was weird tuna fish looking guys.

Also those tornado spin extenders don't have any kind of charge up mechanic, you weren't reaching that ledge at the end cause you kept pressing up first and spinning against the wall and by the time you pressed left to start moving you had already wasted most of your spin.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Challenge World

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 23:40
by FPzero
Today was a really good episode! It probably helps that you didn't sound exhausted by the time you got finished with it. I think you're definitely getting a handle on the controls now.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Challenge World

Posted: 11 Jun 2019, 00:29
by Blivsey
From the makers of Press A To Jump

Inspired by Press A To Yes

Image
Press A To Yes Jump