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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Mario Infinity: Mystery of the Magic Wand

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 17:15
by Paragraph
Sebby19 wrote: I think a friend in school showed me this. Are they the ones who made a boss where every square in it's Life Meter represented 1 million HP?
You're probably thinking of Final Fantasy 12's Yiazmat. He does, in fact, have 50 x 1 Million HP and a little change.

Final Fantasy games have tried getting over programming limits for a while, as did the Dragon Quests. It started with bosses healing themselves for lots of HP, effectively extending their life total for quite a bit, later getting a little more subtle - Zeromus (FF4's final boss) invisibly restores his health to max upon a phase transition, making the fight far longer than the already substantial 65XXX HP he starts with would.

After him, Exdeath has consists of four parts with 32000ish HP each, again going way over the 65k mark in total, Kefka of course is a super complicated multi-stage affair, and with discs, hardware limitations go away starting from FF7.

I think both approaches have merit, the smaller numbers definitely require some extremely tight design to make it work, which can be both neat to see pulled off and a little stifling, depending on how you look at it. As this game requires actual skill way more than pure numbers, it is way less of a "problem"...depending, of course, on how well you can push buttons with the right timing.

Re: Mario & Mario: Superstar Saga - Super Mario Infinity: Mystery of the Magic Mario

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 18:44
by Grounder
Awoo wrote:

I suppose if he ever does a "let's watch cartoons together" a-la Megaman 8/X4, we could watch the awful anime adaptation


:ehh:
ma-frown.png
ma-frown.png (28.98 KiB) Viewed 747 times
delet this

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Mario Infinity: Mystery of the Magic Wand

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 19:31
by KobaBeach
Awoo wrote: All this talk about ridiculous numbers makes me want to play Disgaea again

I can't even imagine our lord and savior playing something like that, though. Maybe just for the storyline? Even then Etna's basically like Luste Teuber but for like 90% of the game and not just like one level.

as bad as etna is, just remember that at least she didnt magically gain cameltoe in the second game

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 21:42
by Grounder
oh dear

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 21:50
by General_Urist
Wow, only five seconds before getting the urge to shout at the screen. New record!

Seriously though, I had lots of trouble with the jumprope minigame also when I was a wee lad. Then again when I was a wee land I didn't have years of hellish platforming under my belt.

This does lead to the question of how much time raocow should spend on minigames though.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 21:51
by polaris
haven't watched the latest video(s) yet but I have to say I'm happy to see that raocow isn't shying away from monster-length videos from the get-go, since the RPG format makes "regular-length" videos seem shorter than usual

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 21:54
by General_Urist
On more practical notes, raocow you really should considering changing your key bindings to something that makes controlling the two bros independently more comfortable. The inability to do so will only hurt more the longer you go on.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 21:57
by KobaBeach
Grounder wrote: oh dear
don't watch rks freudenstachel

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 22:00
by Mandew
this is hilarious

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 22:01
by Grounder
KobaBeach wrote:
Grounder wrote: oh dear
don't watch rks freudenstachel
i meant the videos

the descriptions made me think it was just gonna be frustration

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 22:07
by KobaBeach
Grounder wrote:
KobaBeach wrote:
Grounder wrote: oh dear
don't watch rks freudenstachel
i meant the videos

the descriptions made me think it was just gonna be frustration
oh i thought you meant the cameltoe which is an actual thing in rks freudenstachel

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 22:10
by SAJewers
my only frame of reference for an rpg lp is supermcgamer's paper mario lp, with most episodes around 20 minutes, and those worked out well. maybe look at that for a comparison, since you were sorta wondering.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 22:23
by General_Urist
Bros Attack notes: If you miss the first 1st button prompt than instead of failing the attack completely you get sent down an 'alternate path' that lets does much less damage but still lets you salvage something. This can be quite confusing though I admit. Also, higher difficulty attacks do more damage on top of costing less.

Tolstar battle notes: If he shouts "Nyeck" before throwing the spiked ball does a high bounce, if he stays quite it's a lowball you have to dodge normally.

For the record, enemies that play four-dimensional chess by tricking you into dodging into attacks that you dodge by not dodging aren't massively rare in this game, expect more of them.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 22:27
by Rockythechao
nineteen minutes into vid b and
Image

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 22:40
by Blivsey
At this point, having played Superstar Saga for years, the Bros. Attacks are just muscle memory to me and I probably could do them with my eyes closed, but it's still easy to understand how they're kinda difficult to figure out, especially when one is still unused to the battle system. Doesn't help that there's only one real opportunity to practice one without spending BP.

Hey, you know what's annoying to know? The Japanese release of this game has HP blocks straight out of Paper Mario that refill all your health whenever you hit them. They were taken out of the international release, then put back into the remakes. So rao is playing the only version of the game without them!

BOSS STUFF: Tolstar, who I didn't realize was a Spike until just now what the hell my childhood is further enriched. Tolstar is another "PLEASE KNOW THAT TELLS ARE IMPORTANT" boss like Fawful was. Whenever he laughs before throwing a ball, he'll bounce it in a way that only hits you if you do jump.

Also, you can have as few as 100 coins when you first see him, since that's how much Toadsworth gives you. No matter what, your coin total equals 10 Beanbean coins. Keep that exchange rate in mind.

...You don't actually have to keep the exchange rate in mind. It's not important.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 23:00
by Peliptia
probably said somewhere⚊but maybe the invisible force field at the start was because luigi hadn't jumped up⁇ also, it wouldve been kinda cool if the game let you walk around while conversations were goings on, you know‽ give the player something to do whilst reading ☽˖⁺ ゚

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 23:15
by KobaBeach
SAJewers wrote: my only frame of reference for an rpg lp is supermcgamer's paper mario lp, with most episodes around 20 minutes, and those worked out well. maybe look at that for a comparison, since you were sorta wondering.
I'd consider checking out jttoddy's channel but they have seemed to have closed it womp womp
Try HCBailly then?

Those were the only RPG VLPers I knew of, even if I didnt really follow them. I mostly just watch speedruns when it comes to video playthroughs of RPGs on YouTube.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 23:47
by FPzero
Rockythechao wrote: nineteen minutes into vid b and
Image
17 in and yeah this.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Mario Infinity: Mystery of the Magic Wand

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 23:51
by warpio
Ashan wrote: I can't believe you actually followed the instructions and didn't mess around in the passport photo. Just reset this whole LP, you've ruined it!

I really feel like the art style in this game is another thing that was lost later in the series. It's most noticeable with Bowser who had a pretty fun and unique design in this game, and then later they just made him look like how Bowser looks in every other series. Even in the remake of this on 3DS, he just looks like modern Bowser, which is disappointing cause I thought the silly fatso Bowser design fits better for how he's kind of a joke in this game. Superstar Saga just has so much character that's really unique to it, and I wish Nintendo would do something like this again. Who knows, they took some risks with Odyssey so maybe we'll see them take another attempt at something more out there when this series makes its way onto Switch.
See, this is another thing that I'm very at odds with the Mario RPG fanbase on. I honestly think the character model/spritework in the more modern era of Mario games are absolutely gorgeous, and have generally just been getting better over time (not counting the NSMB series mind you). To me it just seems like there's this weird contingent of Mario RPG fans that don't actually LIKE the Mario cast, and they'd prefer to see them changed up as much as possible to the point that these iconic characters are barely recognizable.

Sure, I don't mind when a Mario game takes a lot of creative liberties and adds a unique flair to the standard Mario character/enemy designs, but I don't think the unique look of this game in particular is extremely special or anything. It looks goofy (and kinda ugly at times imo) but it serves the game well enough and it looks great for limitations of the system it's on for sure... But I think the spritework in the 3DS remakes is very well made and has its own sort of authentic/polished charm while also being just as animated/lively as the original game was.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 23:56
by Lostsoldier20
The game gets a lot harder, so it's pretty good that there's a relatively decent difficulty curve. Oof the irony of all the "look I got this game stop tutorializing me" as he... ignores things that he was tutorialized on.

I think a big problem is the system it came on only had two face buttons, a D=pad, L/R, then start and select. The controls were made with the hardware in mind, which means whatever controller being used... just isn't gonna cut it by comparison. That's less a raocow issue and more an issue with the game, but at the same time not on the game either because of how well it worked for the original hardware. I think that's gonna make the growing pains a little more painful, as we can see. A LOT of button confusion, beyond just Start/Select.

I think it'll start to smooth out by the end of

Hoo-hoo Mountain.

The latest,

Chuckola Woods,

assuming I remember the area order in my head correctly.

Also dat boss music

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 00:01
by MonkeyShrapnel
Blivsey wrote: Hey, you know what's annoying to know? The Japanese release of this game has HP blocks straight out of Paper Mario that refill all your health whenever you hit them. They were taken out of the international release, then put back into the remakes. So rao is playing the only version of the game without them!
This game's development history is really weird, but to keep it simple, we got the game first and it released in Japan a few days later.

So they didn't remove the heart blocks, more so that they never existed at all.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 00:15
by Quadro
I'm half way through watching episode b and reading the comments, and I've got a bad feeling, like this is going to be one of those games where the more experienced players are going to be yelling at their screens throughout, and it's going to make playing less enjoyable for rao.
And that's sad, cause I feel like it's a great game and I'd love to see someone enjoying this game for the first time, and not have it feel like just a massive chore to get through.

I hope this doesn't happen, I really do....
But maybe I'm being a little overdramatic.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 00:16
by Sebby19
JP version only had 3 Heart Blocks across the entire game, which is shockingly low for the effort to code them in.

Good job with the Border Jump raocow! The Complete Border Jump (level 5) is indeed the last one. It's prize is 7 Hee Beans.
You might want to make the next Minigame its own video, that one is gonna eat up a lot of time if you decide to experience it all.

Also rao, you're doing the Bros. Blocks wrong. The Start button shouldn't be used at all. Look at Rockythechoa's spoiler, it's a GIF from yesterday's episode.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 00:43
by Mandew
Quadro wrote: I'm half way through watching episode b and reading the comments, and I've got a bad feeling, like this is going to be one of those games where the more experienced players are going to be yelling at their screens throughout, and it's going to make playing less enjoyable for rao.
And that's sad, cause I feel like it's a great game and I'd love to see someone enjoying this game for the first time, and not have it feel like just a massive chore to get through.

I hope this doesn't happen, I really do....
But maybe I'm being a little overdramatic.
yeah I think raocow should just be given the breathing room to make his own mistakes. I'm enjoying his play-through a lot, kinda reminds me how I had these same issues back when I first played the game lol.

RPGs are a lot about discovery. Let's try to not undermine that.

Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Kamek's Revenge

Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 00:56
by Sebby19
Hey kids, who wants to learn this game's damage formula!
*crickets*

This all started with me wanting to find out how much stronger the Bros. Attacks are, at their base. This is what I found, thanks to this site: https://supermariofiles.wordpress.com/
Heres the damage formula if you really want to know
Solo attacks: 0.4 * (Attacker POW – 1/2 * Defender DEF) * (attack constant K)
Bros. attacks: 0.4 * (Attacker POW – 1/2 * Defender DEF) * (success constant S) * (attack constant K)
The important variable is at the end: K. This is because Mario and Luigi each have separate base values for the same attack. Next spoiler details how, but short version is that Mario's normal jump is stronger than Luigi's, even if both have the same Attack stat. I just learned this, never knew:
Mario's regular attack always does x1.3 damage of his base, while Luigi does a simple x1 his base. The Lucky! strikes are similar, Mario is x2.3, Luigi is x2. However, the 1st strikes and counterattacks is x0.5 for both Bros, and can never be Lucky!

Anyways, assuming you do a Bros. attack perfectly on Mode 3, Mario's Splash Bros. does x3.6, and Luigi's Bounce Bros. does x3
I love how the Bros. Attacks are based off of their Field moves (Hi-jump and Spin-jump). I really appreciate the attention to detail. Later games have the bros. use attack items (shells, Fire Flowers, rocket-propelled skateboard), which are fine. But there is a certain creativeness in the bros. just using their innate abilities here; they are at their most acrobatic in this game.

Finally, NEVER USE Mode 2. It's completely superfluous.