Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga

[Grounder]

They could at least had Psycho Kamegikoopek be Toadley's apprentice, or something.

[Sebby19]

Given the gameplay during combat, and exploring, I think raocow will do pretty well. There's a lot of reactionary stuff and that is kind of his forte. Try to have a little faith, he's not GameGrumps, after all.

I was going through some older posts and found this post.

In light of yesterday, and rao's apology today... hehe, oops.

[Mea]

He noted how the composer for the series (Nobuo Uematsu) tends to create a specific leitmotif and utilizing it in as many tracks as possible. I feel like that demonstrates his limitations as a composer, since his songs can get very samey at times.

Compare this to Yoko Shimomura's work in this game. She plays around with a lot of instrumentation and doesn't really stick to one leitmotif or another unless it's necessary. Her callbacks to the Mario franchise are well thought out, and every theme that is played out is very distinct and fit within the character's mood. Cackletta and Fawful have very unique themes, for example, as does Peasley.

I agree that reusing the same motif or themes can get tiring and boring if they're pervasive but I don't quite agree with the implication that doing so is a confession of a lack in creativity. I mean, the point of the leitmotif is to associate a passage of music to something, a mood, a character, a place, etc. If those elements are relevent to when the music should be playing, then it's a good device to use for storytelling through music. Describing its use as 'necessary' or whatever feels a bit off.

If the leitmotif is itself boring/uninteresting or it isn't being used effectively as a tool for musical storytelling, then that I'd say is a weakness in a composition. Not that I know how this applies to Nobuo Uematsu, but my two cents.

[Kincyr]

raocow is right about the Mush Badge getting ridiculously strong later, since the Japanese version (and by extension, the remakes) nerfed the power boost per Mushshroom/Super/Ultra/

Max

by almost half which is still pretty strong when you consider that (IIRC)

the bonus is a flat addition applied after damage calculation, meaning it ignores enemy defense unless it misses outright. this also affects each hit in weak multi-hit attacks.

that and

there are A and AA variants later on that provide more BP

Shroom Force calculations:
Originally:

[(Mushroom * 51) + (Super * 51) + (Ultra * 64) + (Max * 76)] / 256.
having 99 of each shroom results in a bonus of 93

JP ver. and remake:

[(Mushroom * 20) + (Super * 25) + (Ultra * 30) + (Max * 51)] / 256.
having 99 of each shroom results in a bonus of 48

[RobinLSL]

So, I just want to take a moment to discuss the music in this game, which in many cases has been extremely good (except for maybe the town theme). I've been watching A Raving Loon's FFV FJF runs, and today he mentioned how, when you spend enough time playing games like these, you can start sussing out details about the music. He noted how the composer for the series (Nobuo Uematsu) tends to create a specific leitmotif and utilizing it in as many tracks as possible. I feel like that demonstrates his limitations as a composer, since his songs can get very samey at times.

Let me just jump in here. Using a leitmotif multiple times doesn't make things samey, it does however improve listener involvement in the music by miles and enhances emotional associations of various ideas and points to the musics. What makes songs samey is using similar styles, instrumentations, rhythms and such.

[thatguyif]

This is why I think they had the BiS remake planned way earlier than most think. Probably almost at the same time the SS remake was given the greenlight.
As you mentioned, Fawful's robots in BiS also appear here, in the Bowser's minions sidegame.

Yeah. That said, I suspect they were packaged together to save development time and resources, with Superstar Saga getting priority due to its age. It's possible I'm still correct on Toadley, consequently.

Let me just jump in here. Using a leitmotif multiple times doesn't make things samey, it does however improve listener involvement in the music by miles and enhances emotional associations of various ideas and points to the musics. What makes songs samey is using similar styles, instrumentations, rhythms and such.

Certainly a leitmotif can do that when properly used. That's where I think Uematsu fails as a composer. I would say V and VI are the high-water marks of his composition skills, but even there, the songs he was strongest at were ones that strayed from whatever central theme he developed and then tweaked and reworked into different tracks, which cries overuse.

Anyway, because the current Fest run A Raving Loon is doing is lasting far longer than it should (It's now in hour 16 due to waiting on Omniscient to drain all his MP...long story that involves Victor Hugo), I've gone far enough ahead in the remake (while watching) that I won't need to play for at least a week by my guessing, or at least to the 4th of July holiday weekend. Notes will be less panicky moving forward.

[Mata Hari]

[*]The Invinicishroom is referred to as the Invincibility Mushroom in the remake, and to give it more clarity that it was bad, the sprite for it is basically similar to a Poison Mushroom. Bowser's Minions provides lore as to how and why the "Invincibility Mushroom" came into the Arcade's hands in the first place: A side mission has Captain Goomba and the minions being tasked by a Toad to grab this Invincibility Mushroom from inside a cave, without knowing what it actually looks like, in exchange for Beans (which are Bowser's Minions answer to Starbeans Coffee as stat boosts). At the end of the mission, Captain Goomba and the gang stumble upon the real Invincibility Mushroom (which looks like a super shiny mushroom), along with a Poison Mushroom. Captain Goomba, being a complete idiot (as established in the plot), grabs the Poison Mushroom, and then hands it to the Toad, who accepts not know any the wiser. In other words, Captain Goomba caused this segment of the game to happen because he's a complete moron.

OK it did always bug me that Mario had an adverse reaction to the Invincishroom when it's a combination of two things he consumes regularly, but I guess this does explain it. It probably wasn't a real Invincishroom in the original anyway, arcade dude is probably not the most trustworthy

[WhimWidget]

Does that mean poison mushrooms canonically turn you into beans?

[Piesonscreations]

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[Sebby19]

Speaking of remakes, I suspect they skipped redoing Partners in Time not just because it was the least popular one in the series, but they went straight for BiS to test the 3DS. They know the 3rd game is a fan favorite, so if it doesn't sell well, the 3DS is truly dead.

And yeah, BiS remake is the worst selling game in the series
SS also had the advantage of being the only game NOT playable on the 3DS, making it an easy sell for those who wanted all 5 games on one system.

[thatguyif]

Speaking of remakes, I suspect they skipped redoing Partners in Time not just because it was the least popular one in the series, but they went straight for BiS to test the 3DS. They know the 3rd game is a fan favorite, so if it doesn't sell well, the 3DS is truly dead.

And yeah, BiS remake is the worst selling game in the series
SS also had the advantage of being the only game NOT playable on the 3DS, making it an easy sell for those who wanted all 5 games on one system.

Well, I mean, the main problem for the remakes' sales was they were released after the Switch came out. While the 3DS was technically still in production, and there were still games coming out for the system, the handheld was considered by the gaming populace to be either dead or at death's door. Because of that, they abandoned the handheld. So a lot of games that were released for the 3DS in this lame duck period are likely to be forgotten.

Also, I think the real reason Bowser's Inside Story was chosen over Partners in Time is simpler: There is a narrative connection to Superstar Saga (Fawful being a villain).

[Sebby19]

Had the BiS remake done very well, maybe we would have seen a PiT remake. Oh well, not a huge loss. /burn

But yeah, if anyone had doubts the 3DS was dead, the remake's failure should have erased them.

I'm looking forward to game #6 on the Switch! Bet let's talk about that when we get close to the end off this game

[LunarRainbowShyGuy]

I find it a bit interesting how the layout of this area is designed to keep Luigi confined to a limited space; you can't really go anywhere except where you're supposed to go. Anyway, the enemies here do seem pretty weak, but it makes sense considering that you're at considerably more risk when going alone. If you die you don't have another character to fall back on; it's game over right there. That's probably why there's also a lot of save blocks here.

Though, while the enemies probably should be somewhat weak, I feel like they might be a little too weak; raocow's barely invested in Luigi's defense and yet they were still only doing one damage. There's also the fact that raocow was one shotting everything, but that's not too surprising, considering how much he's invested in POW. He also has the mush badge, which I would assume is also contributing a good amount to his damage.

Anyway, here's raocow's bonus stat allocations.

The first number is the total increase, the first set of brackets show level up bonuses, and the second set of brackets show bonuses from drinks.
Mario
HP +14 (+3 +2 +2 +3) (+4)
BP +3 (+2 +1)
POW +30 (+2 +1 +1 +1 +3 +2 +2 +4 +1 +3 +3 +4 +3)
DEF +4 (+2 +2)
SPEED +3 (+3)
STACHE +4 (+2 +2)

Luigi
HP +5 (+5)
BP +4 (+2 +2)
POW +34 (+1 +3 +1 +1 +4 +3 +1 +2 +2 +1 +2 +3 +2 +2 +2 +3 +1)
DEF +6 (+2 +4)
SPEED +7 (+4 +3)
STACHE +5 (+1) (+4)

[Grounder]

Behold, the most horrifying creature in Mario canon.

Before we had Boswette, we had the ugly, the disgusting, the straight-up disturbing....

BOWLETTA

GAZE UPON HER INTERSEX REPTILIAN MAMMARIES AND DESPAIR

[thatguyif]

But yeah, if anyone had doubts the 3DS was dead, the remake's failure should have erased them.

I don't think this alone was an indicator. I think it was just another example. I would say the truest example was when they announced Pokemon for the Switch, because that was probably the only thing that was strictly a handheld series until that point.

Anyway, remake notes:

• You may have noticed in this sequence Luigi holding up Mario's picture in the equipment menu. This isn't in the remake because that part of the screen doesn't exist (it's a full-screen UI of the equips, if that makes sense).
• I've said this before, but in solo ventures in the remake (like here), the buttons remain the same. In other words, Luigi stays on B.
• Crabbie Grass looks a tad different in the remake. Its tips are red instead of yellow.
• As to be expected, the message from Bowletta is delivered on a 3DS rather than a GBA in the remake.

So, one of the annoying things (for me) about this game that kind of gets exacerbated in the remake and the M&L series in general is how some Bros. Attacks require button mashing to execute properly. I have a neurological/physical disability where the fine motor controls in my hands are kind of crippled. It's more obvious on my right hand than my left. Whenever I have to button mash in a game, I have to awkwardly place my left hand over the button inputs to execute such moves properly. The remake kind of makes this worse because there's no slow-mo Mode 1 to counteract it (Easy gives you more flexibility on the timing of button presses, which is meaningless when it comes to button-mashing). Now, I'm not going to cry "ableism!" about it (I find that concept awfully ridiculous and out of control, but I will not discuss that here), but it's still a little frustrating. Ah well.

Anyway, here is another classic moment from the MyNameIsKaz/medibot LP, where medibot "becomes" Mario.

[Piesonscreations]

How had i never heard this game's got bowser titties.

[Chirei]

How had i never heard this game's got bowser titties.

no one watches or plays this game for that

they come for the THUNDRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[Grounder]

How had i never heard this game's got bowser titties.

people suppress the memories

[Sebby19]

Good thing Bowser Jr. isn't in this game. He would need counseling.

It's okay to test out the mush badge, but I thought you were going to do one battle with it on, and the next off, to compare.
Oh well, you'll definitely notice the power difference between Mario and Luigi now.

Anyways, now is a pretty good time to explore the world. There's that east wing of the castle I mentioned the other day, and then there is a whole row of screens to the north. Might be a good idea to walk around the outside perimeter of the castle+town, and see what your new abilities can unlock.


You probably also have enough Chuckle beans to make another new blend. Then you'll get another useful equip from E.Gadd.
Also good job finding those solo Hee Beens. It is kinda dumb how most are invisible. Would you like a spoilered list of ones you missed? Shouldn't be too long, since the invisible Hee Beans tend to bunch up (like 4-5) together. I think you've missed enough that could make you a 4th blend.

[Ashan]

The Invinicishroom is referred to as the Invincibility Mushroom in the remake, and to give it more clarity that it was bad, the sprite for it is basically similar to a Poison Mushroom. Bowser's Minions provides lore as to how and why the "Invincibility Mushroom" came into the Arcade's hands in the first place: A side mission has Captain Goomba and the minions being tasked by a Toad to grab this Invincibility Mushroom from inside a cave, without knowing what it actually looks like, in exchange for Beans (which are Bowser's Minions answer to Starbeans Coffee as stat boosts). At the end of the mission, Captain Goomba and the gang stumble upon the real Invincibility Mushroom (which looks like a super shiny mushroom), along with a Poison Mushroom. Captain Goomba, being a complete idiot (as established in the plot), grabs the Poison Mushroom, and then hands it to the Toad, who accepts not know any the wiser. In other words, Captain Goomba caused this segment of the game to happen because he's a complete moron.

If they changed the canon and made it so the mushroom is actually poison, why does the doctor say it's a regular illness people contract if they're not used to the food there? Is he just bullshitting? If he doesn't even know what Mario's condition is, doesn't that mean he's wrong that Mario will turn into a bean?

Interestingly, the remake does two slight changes to the hypnosis scene. The first, there's no Kamek magic because he's been replaced. The second, the mirror reveal shows not Luigi in red, but Mario, to further give the impression that Luigi is Mario.

I specifically remember this standing out to me. I don't think it was to further show that Luigi believes he's Mario, it's because there wasn't a premade asset for it and they were too lazy to recolor some of Luigi's sprite to be red.
It looks way worse because Luigi's reflection isn't even doing the same animation as he is. They just use Mario's equivalent "surprised/shocked" animation so it isn't even mirroring him. You know, like a mirror should.

[thatguyif]

Good thing Bowser Jr. isn't in this game. He would need counseling.

He sort of is in the remake. After you defeat Bowser's Minions, he becomes available as a minion. However, he doesn't play any role in that side-game's story.

If they changed the canon and made it so the mushroom is actually poison, why does the doctor say it's a regular illness people contract if they're not used to the food there? Is he just bullshitting? If he doesn't even know what Mario's condition is, doesn't that mean he's wrong that Mario will turn into a bean?

I think the "food illness" argument holds up because, while it resembles a Poison Mushroom, it's a Poison Mushroom in the Beanbean Kingdom and not the Mushroom Kingdom. Mario's simply used to dealing with Poison Mushrooms in the Mushroom Kingdom.

I specifically remember this standing out to me. I don't think it was to further show that Luigi believes he's Mario, it's because there wasn't a premade asset for it and they were too lazy to recolor some of Luigi's sprite to be red.
It looks way worse because Luigi's reflection isn't even doing the same animation as he is. They just use Mario's equivalent "surprised/shocked" animation so it isn't even mirroring him. You know, like a mirror should.

That is one way of looking at it. But I feel like it works because that's actually a common theme in art of mirror representations, where the reflection shows something different so as to represent what the person actually sees in the mirror. It wasn't just that Luigi sees himself as Tall Mario, he sees himself as Mario.

[Leet]

Bowser Jr may not be here to see Bowletta, but all of Bowser's other kids don't seem to give a shit IIRC (don't @ me with 'theyre not his kids')

[Kleetus]

It's an old meme, but I couldn't sleep.

whydidimakethisohgod.png (141.44 KiB) Viewed 4004 times

[ano0maly]

"What is there to invest into, though?"

Pretty sure people said it before, but Stache has more than one function:

1.

It increases chance of getting a lucky hit.

2.

It increases the discount when you buy items and the coins you get for selling items.

And I agree that the story here feels sort of convoluted. How this wouldn't have happened if Peach and Toads were more proactive or if the arcade didn't give you that useless Invincishroom, how Toadsworth blames Mario and Luigi and then complains about his "hobbies", how Prince Peasley could more easily collect the Beanstar pieces when he could fly around, how the protagonists would have begun to go look for them anyway without Bowletta demanding them.

[Falky]

the first thing that Toadsworth has ever said that is genuinely pretty funny

I dunno, I've always been quite partial to "YEDABLABLABLABLA".