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Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga

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Chirei
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - ASMT

Post by Chirei »

Ashan wrote: 4 years ago I think having to risk messing up a new bros attack in the middle of a real battle is part of the fun and discovery that this game excels in. Being able to just switch from the middle of a battle to a safe, quarantined practice zone for bros attacks seems like a weird jarring break of immersion.
Even then, the risk isn't actually even that huge if controlled. You could just mess around outside town and run back in and chug syrups, which are super cheap. I think that's what I did to mentally practice the bros attacks my first go through.

raocow went from being dirt poor to lodsemone almost immediately after getting the Greed Wallet, so it feels almost encouraged that one would just mess around with how much money this game gives out.

Definitely not a fan of how much bubblewrap i've seen put around the game in the remake, since it already has quite a lot already, just in a less direct manner.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - ASMT

Post by Ashan »

Blivsey wrote: 4 years ago I hear BIS is pretty alright, but I'm the type who needs to play in order with a series like this, so...
BIS is just fine in my opinion. I've heard people say it's their favorite in the series, but honestly I think it's pretty overrated. I liked it a lot when it first came out, but it was the second game in the series I finished (I didn't own/complete PiT until a few years ago) so I wasn't really suffering from the fatigue of the series yet and I was just happy to play a sequel to one of my favorite games of all time. I believe I've completed it 3 or 4 times (once in the remake and 2 or 3 times in the original) and every time I find myself a little more unimpressed than the last. Switching between Bowser and the bros inside of him is clunky, and ends up just making fighting regular scrub enemies tedious and time consuming.

Also, the insides of Bowser all feel very same-ey throughout the whole game. Once you've seen one part you've seen the whole thing. And even the overworld areas feel pretty generic. Areas in SS all felt like they had a reason to exist. Stardust Fields is a border between kingdoms that's surveilled by the military. Hoohoo Village has inhabitants with ties to an ancient civilization whose writing can be seen all over on the walls. Chucklehuck Woods/Chateau de Chucklehuck has a backstory of an old man who has gotten so obsessed with perfecting his craft of brewing soda that he's gone insane.
Bowser's Inside Story has... a beach with giant rotten teeth? Which I guess is creative but it literally serves the purpose of any generic beach. And that's also literally the only area I can remember despite having played this game like 6 months ago. Googling, I see there's Bumpsy Plains which the wiki describes as "a small grassy area." Dimble Wood, "a dense forest filled with many trees." Blubble Lake, "a huge lake with many rock structures and stone walls." Nothing that happens in these areas is at all relevant to the place it's happening, you could easily make any story events happen anywhere because they're just so unimportant.

There's not really any new memorable characters in the game nor particularly good writing. There's that block guy who is a guy made out of blocks and speaks with a cartoony french accent. They introduced Starlow who has stuck around for all the games after it, and as far as I can tell she just serves the purpose of spouting dialogue for Mario and Luigi even though it was never an issue to just have NPCs have one-sided conversations. Or if you need to have a part where Mario & Luigi say something, have them spout a second of Italian gibberish because they don't know anything that the player doesn't know.

It just seems to me like they came up with the "Mario and Luigi are inside Bowser" thing and stopped the creativity right there cause they didn't want to overload people with new ideas. I'm pretty sure I saw an interview from someone who worked on Paper Jam that basically said they only used generic Mario characters and areas through the whole game cause having the real world and paper world together was already a big, new concept, and that game is the most offensively bland in the whole series. So I wouldn't be surprised if that same attitude is what has made the other games so unremarkable as well.

Anyway that got way more analytical than necessary so I'll end this here.

edit: I guess I should say, Dream Team kinda went in a better direction than these points I've mentioned, but that game is SERIOUSLY held back just by constantly being a tutorial for itself
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Chirei
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Chirei »

The desert is basically one giant skill check: Can you use the commands fluidly enough in relatively quick succession?

Sadly escort missions are rarely done right.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Sebby19 »

Unfortunately raocow became a Game Grump and didn't read the part where Toadsworth said you can reverse Peach's direction by speaking to her. Couldv'e cut down on some of the tedium.

Anyways, the Super Hammers are indeed slightly more powerful than the regular ones... on average.

Here's the Solo Attack damage chart:
Mario
-Jump: x1.2
-Hammer: x0.9/x1/x1.1 (<-random chance of one of these)
-Hand: x1.15
Luigi
-Jump: x1
-Hammer: x1/x1.15/x1.3
-Hand: x1.15

Now here's the new multipliers for the Super Hammers:
-Mario: x0.8/x1/x1.2
-Luigi: x0.6/x1.13/x1.36
So the damage range has expanded in both directions. Luigi is still the better hammer guy, but now has a chance to do way less damage than his Jump.
Lucky Strike multiplier doesn't ever change (still M=x2.1 and L=x2.5)
Last edited by Sebby19 4 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Ashan »

Holy cow I did not notice Peach making a Funkytown reference until now

Also the word you're looking for is "voluntold"
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Sebby19 »

I feel raocow should give another honest shot at Advanced Splash Bros., since he never even got past the first input in Mode 1.

I think I'm seeing some emulator glitches, like weird sprite layering I've never seen happen. And those mushrooms the Snifit-cacti were spitting out were not healing the Bros. at all!


Fears about that game-breaking glitch 3/4 of the way through are rising, if emulator/rom shenanigins continue.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by SAJewers »

Sebby19 wrote: 4 years ago I feel raocow should give another honest shot at Advanced Splash Bros., since he never even got past the first input in Mode 1.
I'm actually surprised he didn't immediately try again
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - ASMT

Post by thatguyif »

Sebby19 wrote: 4 years ago It's also a common misconception that you have to be on Mode 3 to learn the Advance! moves. I believed this myself for many years.

Then I watched Lucahjin, and gasped when she blundered her way to Advanced Bounce Bros., almost exclusively on Mode 1. And she learned that as early as Hoohoo Mountain.
Oh no no, you misunderstood. I mean you have to get a "Great!" rank on your attacks. It doesn't matter which mode you use, as long as the end result is Great! rank. You can get Great! ranks on Mode 1 attacks.

Anyway, remake notes:
  • An interesting change occurred regarding the Super Hammers. The remake added an event flag after you leave Beanbean Castle post-Peach's arrival, where the Hammerhead Bros. show up near the entrance and explain to you what they've been up to, with the info that they've set up shop east of town. (Again, this is likely to make things a bit clearer, since there's 0 indication that the Hammerhead Bros. have moved). What's interesting about this is that the event flag is required for you to access them in the first place. In other words, you cannot get the Super Hammers until after you beat Mom Piranha. In the original, you can access the Hammerhead Bros. (and thus the Super Hammers) as early as returning from Oho Oasis, before going to the Airport and fighting Mom Piranha. This is because, technically speaking, all you need is the Thunderhand. Of course, because they simply copy-pasted the vast bulk of the script, they retained their dialogue, which sounds really awkward because they're simply reiterating what they said at Beanbean Castle entrance.
  • Minor detail, but the Troopeas' heal move is a lot slower in the remake. They do heals one at a time. At least I remember it being that?
  • The sandstorm move is actually made a bit more dangerous in the remake. Taking advantage of better graphics, the screen gets completely blotted out with sand, with the screen becoming only semi-visible at certain intervals. You have to pay attention to the enemy's speed to counter properly.
  • The remake makes the escort mission a lot easier by slowing Peach down. She moves half as fast as in the original. The Bros. also stop immediately before the exit and wait for Peach to get there, so as to prevent her disappearing because (like today) you decided to go to the next screen before Peach did.
  • To reiterate something I said at the start of the remake notes (and something raocow brought up in the video): In the remake, Mario and Luigi stick to their A and B buttons precisely as suggested, and Bros./Solo Actions account for this by automatically moving the Bros. into the proper position. The L and R buttons simply swap Actions.
Hoo boy, that was a video. And now we are at the same segment. I'll try to push ahead over today and tomorrow to get ahead and keep notes going.
Sebby19 wrote: Unfortunately raocow became a Game Grump
That might be a bit harsh. Why compare raocow to those loser frat boys?
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Kleetus »

First time playing through the game Teehee Valley was a big "oof" moment for me.
That said I really like the appearances of the enemies that appear it helps alieviate how slow and tedious this are can be.. very slightly. The sandstorm summoning the Gritty Goombas do is pretty rad looking.

My favorite enemy in the area has to be the Anuboos, but they don't show up yet.


raocow better learn to love Teehee Valley now; he'll have to return to it a lot, fortunately the return trips aren't as bad.

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by ano0maly »

Teehee more like Teedeeious
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Sebby19 »

thatguyif wrote:
Sebby19 wrote: Unfortunately raocow became a Game Grump
That might be a bit harsh. Why compare raocow to those loser frat boys?
It was only for a moment! The Grumps are the first thing that comes to mind when we have not reading intructions, and then having a harder time because of it.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - ASMT

Post by Ashan »

thatguyif wrote: 4 years agoWhat's interesting about this is that the event flag is required for you to access them in the first place. In other words, you cannot get the Super Hammers until after you beat Mom Piranha. In the original, you can access the Hammerhead Bros. (and thus the Super Hammers) as early as returning from Oho Oasis, before going to the Airport and fighting Mom Piranha.
I feel like when I played the remake, I did my typical thing of immediately going for the super hammers after getting back from the ocean and found their house completely empty.

Despite all of raocow's issues today I don't think this escort mission is that bad, in fact I kinda enjoy it. Maybe it's balancing 3 games a day that's holding him back from learning the controls or something, but I don't really think the action command system is as complicated as it seems from this series. It has a learning curve, but it's all very logical. Also, as previously mentioned, he wouldn't have to be waiting for Peach to bounce back and forth on the last screen if he read Toadsworth's text that mentions you can talk to Peach which makes her turn around on command, albeit he says it in a kind of cryptic way. "Talk some sense into her" or something
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Peliptia »

awhh⁛. im not a fan of peachs characterisation ⤫☹⤫ like the ⟪she will be kidnapped immediately if she leaves sight⟫ is just really— ahh i dont like it⌧ and its only ever peach that gets this treatment⚊which doesnt really look great either ⌤ ͓ ͯ just really unfortunate⋯

on the ups side⚟ i really like how you can actually jump up into lakitu and battle⚊ thats like a super neato way of including the heights of the enemy as an important factor✧゚ and i hope we see more of that kinda design, like maybe with thwomps too✧゚
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Chirei »

Peliptia wrote: 4 years ago awhh⁛. im not a fan of peachs characterisation ⤫☹⤫ like the ⟪she will be kidnapped immediately if she leaves sight⟫ is just really— ahh i dont like it⌧ and its only ever peach that gets this treatment⚊which doesnt really look great either ⌤ ͓ ͯ just really unfortunate⋯
it's even more unfortunate because she has already proven to be able to hold her own alongside mario AND bowser to boot

I don't believe for a second that some random spear guy can instantly incapacitate her
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Ashan »

Boy this game sure would be fun if Peach just escorted herself through the area, maybe Peach could just do all the battles herself for the rest of the game and the Mario bros can just go home and you watch them eat lunch and take a shit
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Grounder »

Ashan wrote: 4 years agoAnd you watch them eat lunch and take a shit
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Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by raocow »

Ashan wrote: 4 years ago Boy this game sure would be fun if Peach just escorted herself through the area, maybe Peach could just do all the battles herself for the rest of the game and the Mario bros can just go home and you watch them eat lunch and take a shit
make it so you play as peach for this period and I'm all for it
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by thatguyif »

raocow wrote: 4 years ago make it so you play as peach for this period and I'm all for it
Super Princess Peach when, raocow?

(I'm joking, I'm joking, I swear)
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Grounder »

anyway yeah desert place sucks pretty bad
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Alice »

thatguyif wrote: 4 years agoSuper Princess Peach when, raocow?

(I'm joking, I'm joking, I swear)
It really wasn't half as bad a game as people seem to think. The only real issue with it is that it's an enormous pain in the ass to try and play it on an emulator. There's times you need to switch between powers quickly and you must use the touchscreen for that.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Ashan »

Are there DS emulators that allow you to map a button press to a touchscreen input?

Maybe that's overcomplicated and just asking for issues, I don't know
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Chirei »

Alice wrote: 4 years ago It really wasn't half as bad a game as people seem to think. The only real issue with it is that it's an enormous pain in the ass to try and play it on an emulator. There's times you need to switch between powers quickly and you must use the touchscreen for that.
I actually like SPP... for its mechanics and how it handles. The game that's designed around it is unfortunately on the easy side.

I've heard people complain about the gimmick of the game but everyone gets in on it and not just Peach so i'm unsure what they're smoking.

It's basically Densetsu No Stafy Side Story and i'm cool with that.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Alice »

Chirei wrote: 4 years agoI actually like SPP... for its mechanics and how it handles. The game that's designed around it is unfortunately on the easy side.

I've heard people complain about the gimmick of the game but everyone gets in on it and not just Peach so i'm unsure what they're smoking.

It's basically Densetsu No Stafy Side Story and i'm cool with that.
It was by no means my favorite DS game but it was certainly one I still enjoyed a lot. It just happened to be different than a typical Mario platformer due to Mario and Luigi not being the characters. I think that's probably why most people shit on it, unfortunately.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Grounder »

Alice wrote: 4 years ago
Chirei wrote: 4 years agoI actually like SPP... for its mechanics and how it handles. The game that's designed around it is unfortunately on the easy side.

I've heard people complain about the gimmick of the game but everyone gets in on it and not just Peach so i'm unsure what they're smoking.

It's basically Densetsu No Stafy Side Story and i'm cool with that.
It was by no means my favorite DS game but it was certainly one I still enjoyed a lot. It just happened to be different than a typical Mario platformer due to Mario and Luigi not being the characters. I think that's probably why most people shit on it, unfortunately.
they shit on it because you play as a woman with violent emotional swings and the wand artifact either borders on being a vibrator joke or is just flat out is one
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - HACK

Post by Sebby19 »

I think Super Princess Peach is about as good as Yoshi's Island DS.
:ehh:
Common link between the two is the developer
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