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Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga

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Sebby19
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby Sebby19 » 5 months ago

I guess I should finally start doing that Bros. Attack Guide I promised. Since the 1st two were very self explanatory, I was waiting for rao to learn and show off another move. I could have started days ago, but rao seems to have some weird aversion to using them outside boss battles. Eh, whatever.

Here's the format of these things:
Name:
-Type: like Jump or Hammer
-Base Damage: only considering successful Mode 3 attacks, and who's POW stat you're using
-BP Cost:
-Button Sequence:
-

Advanced learned @: # of successful uses needed to learn Advanced version


-Description:
-Learned at/Based on: When you learn it, and/or which overworld Bro. Move the attack is based on.
*And any unique or special properties the attack may have

Spoilered for length only, are raocow safe

Splash Bros.
-Type: Jump
-Base Damage: x3.6 (Mario)
-BP Cost: 4(Mode 1+2), 3(Mode 3)
-Button Sequence: A - B - A
-

Advanced learned @: 20 successful attacks


-Description: Mario jumps off Luigi, spinning in the air. Luigi then catches up, jumps and grabs Mario's feet, and both slam upside down on the foe.
-Based on: Spin-Jump
Bounce Bros.
-Type: Jump
-Base Damage: x3 (Luigi)
-BP Cost: 4(Mode 1+2), 3(Mode 3)
-Button Sequence: B - A - B
-

Advanced learned @: 8 successful attacks


-Description: Luigi jumps off Mario. Mario then jumps up into Luigi, high into the air. They then turn and dive head first into the foe.
-Based on: Hi-Jump
Chopper Bros.
-Type: Hammer
-Base Damage: x3.66, at 10 hits (Mario)
-BP Cost: 5(Mode 1+2), 3(Mode 3)
-Button Sequence: A - B - A[button-mash]
-

Advanced learned @: 32 successful attacks


-Description: Mario dunks Luigi into the ground. Luigi then springs up beneath Mario, sending him up like a helicopter, repeatedly damaging the foe.
-Based on: Mole Luigi
*Can deal Hammer damage to Flying or raised foes
*I believe this is the only attack that limits the amount of hits, based on the Mode. Mode 1 has 5 hits max, Mode 3 allows 10.
Knockback Bros.
-Type: Hammer
-Base Damage: x2.88 (Mario) <-you read correctly
-BP Cost: 5(Mode 1+2), 3(Mode 3)
-Button Sequence: B - B - A
-

Advanced learned @: 43 successful attacks


-Description: Luigi squishes Mario down, then launches him at the foe, like a Polo ball
-Based on: Mini-Mario
*Can deal Hammer damage to Flying or raised foes
Last edited by Sebby19 on 20 Jun 2019, 04:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby Le Neveu de Rameau » 5 months ago

Oh dear, I'd forgotten that they give him Jerry Lewis phrasing. Clearly this game hates us and wants us to suffer.

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby Shard1697 » 5 months ago

General_Urist wrote: The first two RPGs I played were Super Mario RPG and Partners in Time, and after that I instinctively go for timed hits in any RPG that has animated attacks even if they aren't actually a mechanic.
When I was a kid playing RPGs I always always pressed buttons in time with attack animations, despite not having played a game where that was an actual mechanic. So when I played this game(and then thousand year door afterwards) it was a revelation, having a game which actually incorporated what I had been doing my whole gaming life as a real mechanic. I've basically never been able to play any turn based RPG without a timing mechanic since, it's like it fills a fundamental part of the game loop that everything else was missing.

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby FourteenthOrder » 5 months ago

When I was little I found this boss the second-hardest thing in the whole game. Nowadays I'm like "why did I feel that way it's clearly not" but I super love this fight. Like, seriously, its different forms and weapons and so forth are super neat.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby Ashan » 5 months ago

This game was my first foray into turn-based RPGs, and the ability to dodge enemy attacks I think turned me off other turn-based RPGs for a long time. It's a pretty ingenious concept that I'm surprised more games haven't taken after. As a kid who mostly played platformers, the idea of not being able to dodge enemy attacks was just foreign. I suppose a lot of fans of the genre probably just enjoy relaxing and playing a game of navigating menus and strategizing as opposed to something that requires constant attention and timing, but I personally find the M&L experience much more engaging. Another large part of my preference towards the M&L system is that I'm pretty lazy when it comes to strategy and this gives me the ability to compensate for that with skills I learned from platforming games.

Even in non turn-based RPGs I tend to play this way -- like with Dark Souls I've always been terrible at building my character and I barely comprehend most of the numbers. I've never dealt with enchantments or figuring out weaknesses, etc. Instead I just take my shitty character and git gud at the combat.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 5 months ago

Ashan wrote: I suppose a lot of fans of the genre probably just enjoy relaxing and playing a game of navigating menus and strategizing as opposed to something that requires constant attention and timing, but I personally find the M&L experience much more engaging.
Yeah, it pretty much comes down to this. Some people just don't have the reflexes or the attention for timing, while others can't stand the lack of engagement when just picking options from a menu. It's why timed hits are good but still not universal - Square Enix games tend to prefer turn management gimmicks now to keep up engagement in traditional turn-based RPGs like Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby rena » 5 months ago

faxanadu would be amazing actually

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby KobaBeach » 5 months ago

rena wrote: faxanadu would be amazing actually
i want this.......
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby Paragraph » 5 months ago

Regarding your thoughts in the video description, raocow: I think you were absolutely right so far to keep the enemy encounters in, because of many reasons that are very specific to this game:
- they're pretty varied in and of themselves, for example having one more enemy of a certain variant means that you can't kill all of them before they get to attack, and you have to learn to dodge, each enemy has multiple attacks etc., and there's mixtures of enemies as well.
- as there's constantly new enemy types with new attacks, you keep having to learn dodging patterns and timings, which is fun to watch you figure out. There's a very notable progression where you get stymied at first by attacks with arcane tells, and at the end of an area, you just no-sell everything. Then the pattern repeats, but that's fine!
- the animations are fun to watch and as it's an ACTION RPG, you keep having things to do and talk about.

And the learning curve isn't even done with just dodging attacks: you keep getting better overall, with learning when to heal in battle, how to decide on attack types, judging damage numbers and so on. Again, this is fun to watch and your commentary explaining your decisions is on point.

Also, you're simply very, very good at talking over videogames by this point, so an approach that wouldn't work for many average LPers does for you.

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby Voltgloss » 5 months ago

KobaBeach wrote:
rena wrote: faxanadu would be amazing actually
i want this.......
I enjoy Faxanadu too, but I don't know how to answer the question "why should raocow play such an old and janky metroidvania-with-light-RPG-elements when there are so many more recent and less janky options in that SotN-style category" - which I vaguely recall was sort of raocow's reaction when he watched some Faxanadu footage in one of those All The Trailers videos

(personally, if raocow decided to play another "classic" SotN-style metroidvania and the choice were for some bizarre reason up to me, i'd pick Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow)

EDIT: On "leaving out the fights in an RPG LP": I can see the argument for leaving out pure grinding, where the player is just fighting over and over enemies already seen in an area already seen. So far, for this game, none of that has been needed.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - World Of Illusion

Postby KobaBeach » 5 months ago

Voltgloss wrote:
KobaBeach wrote:
rena wrote: faxanadu would be amazing actually
i want this.......
I enjoy Faxanadu too, but I don't know how to answer the question "why should raocow play such an old and janky metroidvania-with-light-RPG-elements when there are so many more recent and less janky options in that SotN-style category" - which I vaguely recall was sort of raocow's reaction when he watched some Faxanadu footage in one of those All The Trailers videos
Aren't most of raocow's LPs just novelties tbh

There is a restoration patch ala Simon's Quest tho
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby Sebby19 » 5 months ago

So instead of just heading straight to the Hooniversity, I'd recommend you stay around town, and explore the outskirts.
-The town has 2 sidequests. Thankfully, both are contained within the town as well, so no need to leave. One of them is slightly annoying, but it does teach you about a unique function of mini-Mario. Both quest givers are on the left side of town, which you didn't go to today.
-Starbeans Café is also open on the left side.
-There are also two side areas directly left and right of the Save Block

-Next, there is the overworld that immediately suurounds the town and castle. It would be a good idea to explore and familiarize yourself with the area.
-You can also take time to backtrack to Hoohoo mountain and dig up more Chuckle Beans. The plot doesn't ever require you to hike back up there.
All this would probably take 2 episodes. 3 if you stretch it.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby NastCF » 5 months ago

Sebby19 wrote: <redacted>
No need to tell him what he's missed in so much detail. Just pointing out that he missed the other half of the town should be enough.

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby Blivsey » 5 months ago

My opinion: if editing battles out means we don't get to hear rao sing/speak to the battle music as much then why even play Mario and Luigi???????
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby thatguyif » 5 months ago

Am I the only one who went straight to request grab-bag for RPG stuff...?

Anyway, I was actually playing Fiesta last night, so I skipped yesterday's video to today. Regardless, some notes:

General:
  • I'm surprised you didn't notice this already, but the Bros' EXP tables are already imbalanced. Luigi actually gains levels faster than Mario over the course of the game. It's a slow burn, but once you reach higher levels, it takes a few battles for Mario to catch up to Luigi's level. This applicable in both versions. I suspect the reason why is to partly make up for Luigi's stats being worse than Mario's in most cases.
  • The final part of Chopper Bros. (Mario's hammer Bros. attack) requires you to button mash A. Surely you know how to do that, right, raocow?
Remake:
  • Chuckleroot in the remake is less creepy than the original. Rather than twisting its body like that, it merely changes color. It also moves to the side when you complete the Chuckola Fruit quest rather than downward, which is likely to better indicate to the player they can move forward.
  • The rocks in Luigi's segment post-Reserve fight aren't there in the remake.
  • After gaining the hammer abilities, some of the town recovers, but not completely. You can access the warp pipe and (I think) the eastern half. This was something you couldn't do in the original.
Anyway, as some have noted, be sure to explore the town now that it's restored. You merely explored the (previously unavailable) eastern half. The western half has a lot of goodies, including a really annoying sidequest (whose only saving grace is that you don't have to leave town to do it). Several rooms in the castle are open as well now.

There's a video I want to show here, but I'm saving it for tomorrow. Let's just say it's a Let's Play classic.

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby Blivsey » 5 months ago

thatguyif wrote:
  • The rocks in Luigi's segment post-Reserve fight aren't there in the remake.
I was just playing that segment earlier today and I must have been hallucinating because they definitely are there?
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby Arctangent » 5 months ago

thatguyif wrote:
  • After gaining the hammer abilities, some of the town recovers, but not completely. You can access the warp pipe and (I think) the eastern half. This was something you couldn't do in the original.
does any added dialogue allude to this? if not, i've always wondered about stuff like this - it's really not uncommon for rpgs to have these sort of arbitrary and extremely unintuitive triggers for previous areas to progress into a new state that is sandwiched between two other states with less odd triggers, leading to it being very likely that the player will never once see it. usually it feels like it's just because the state was implemented before the story progression was fully figured out or because said progression was modified later in development, but, while that's still possible for a remake ( esp. a remake that tweaks as much as it does ) ... it's still a remake, and not one that basically turns it into a new game, either

i guess it could just be a case where they had extra dev time and wanted to be able to actually showcase the town being reconstructed if you bothered to check, or to better allow the player to restock on resources if they started to drop low on 'em while going through chucklehuck, but it's still such a niche detail to add after being fully aware of how the game will progress



also on another note, does anyone else look at chucklehuck and go "man that looks like some obscure 1920sish slur" because like ... i couldn't tell you a slur towards who, but i can tell you that i can absolutely imagine some mobsters cursing some group out as "those damn chucklehucks"

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 5 months ago

Arctangent wrote: also on another note, does anyone else look at chucklehuck and go "man that looks like some obscure 1920sish slur" because like ... i couldn't tell you a slur towards who, but i can tell you that i can absolutely imagine some mobsters cursing some group out as "those damn chucklehucks"
Those damn chucklehucks!
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby Arctangent » 5 months ago

BobisOnlyBob wrote:
Those damn chucklehucks!
this is a more perfect response than i ever could've imagined

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby FourteenthOrder » 5 months ago

thatguyif wrote: I'm surprised you didn't notice this already, but the Bros' EXP tables are already imbalanced. Luigi actually gains levels faster than Mario over the course of the game.
Oh my gosh I have played this game at least a dozen times and never noticed this
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby Ashan » 5 months ago

Once you bring Queen Bean back, the two stone barriers blocking off the left and right paths near the entrance to Beanbean Castle are removed. And for some reason as a kid my headcanon created the idea that it's because when Queen Bean jumps here, the earthquake she creates bumps the barriers into the air a bit and then they land and crumble.

Arctangent wrote: also on another note, does anyone else look at chucklehuck and go "man that looks like some obscure 1920sish slur" because like ... i couldn't tell you a slur towards who, but i can tell you that i can absolutely imagine some mobsters cursing some group out as "those damn chucklehucks"
It is one letter away from "chucklefuck" which is a word I've seen used
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Mario Forever

Postby Shard1697 » 5 months ago

Sebby19 wrote: So instead of just heading straight to the Hooniversity, I'd recommend you stay around town, and explore the outskirts.
-The town has 2 sidequests. Thankfully, both are contained within the town as well, so no need to leave. One of them is slightly annoying, but it does teach you about a unique function of mini-Mario. Both quest givers are on the left side of town, which you didn't go to today.
-Starbeans Café is also open on the left side.
-There are also two side areas directly left and right of the Save Block

-Next, there is the overworld that immediately suurounds the town and castle. It would be a good idea to explore and familiarize yourself with the area.
-You can also take time to backtrack to Hoohoo mountain and dig up more Chuckle Beans. The plot doesn't ever require you to hike back up there.
All this would probably take 2 episodes. 3 if you stretch it.
not that it matters but boy howdy would I prefer actual progression over spending a minimum of 2 episodes doing

trivial sidestuff including literally just walking back through an earlier area which you are now totally overpowered in just to grab more buried beans which don't do anything except very gradually let you get slightly more stats you don't need


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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Mario World Omega

Postby Chirei » 5 months ago

The stat up stats are very vague.

I believe POW/DEF up is +30% of that stat, but for like 5 turns. So those pants would make you have very good def unless the battle runs long. The Green Pepper also bestows the same effect and does not stack.

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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Mario World Omega

Postby Ashan » 5 months ago

E. Gadd didn't drink all your bean juice, he just had a sip. You scrolled right past the drinks in your inventory while looking for the bros rock

I don't think I've ever done that digging sidequest before. Maybe I did in the remake? Either way, yeah it seems kinda dumb. I think it's just an excuse to get you walking around town and memorizing the layout but there's better ways of doing that. I recall Bowser's Inside Story had another kind of find-the-invisible-things game too.
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Re: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Super Mario World Omega

Postby Sebby19 » 5 months ago

Yeah the Beanstone sidequest is pretty annoying to do. At least the Bros. Rock is worth the hassle. It's a very good badge, I don't think anything can beat it until near the end of the game.

I believe these are the only two real sidequests in the game. I think there is a 3rd one, but it's elsewhere.

Next post will be about beans
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