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An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

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ZMann
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by ZMann »

I quite liked Palace Acropolis. Level design was neat, and the author is awesome with using SMW Redrawn's graphics and palettes with other graphics.

Also, for some reason, today's episode reminded me of this: raocow, I'd really be happy if you would check out that coin trail in Peaks to Puffs before you go and finish World 5. If anything, at least go check it out before you finish the hack completely; it has a nice little secret that you'll really like. :D
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raocow
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by raocow »

good job for atma for the world 5 boss, I think he managed to combine every thing I hate in romhack bosses and maneuvring into one, other than 'wait for the weak point'
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Atma
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Atma »

raocow wrote:good job for atma for the world 5 boss, I think he managed to combine every thing I hate in romhack bosses and maneuvring into one, other than 'wait for the weak point'
In my defense, I only coded the boss, I didn't conceptualize it or even decide how it was going to work.

The next boss of mine you'll encounter isn't stellar either, but I have to say I'm pretty proud of the last boss of mine that you'll come across.
Last edited by Atma 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Yonowaaru
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Yonowaaru »

Oh,
Spider Guardian....
You were even more of a bother than in Prime 2, if that's even possible....
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morsel/morceau
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by morsel/morceau »

It's nice to have a level with an optional Yoshi, rather than 'here's a big jump for you to do" or whatever else. That said, Yoshi is a bit underutilised in this hack; no cutscene where he's exchanging witticisms with Mario? or answering his BlackBerry (shut up, it's a type of berry)?
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S.N.N.
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by S.N.N. »

I'm kind of wondering why people are upset that the switch blocks both helped AND hindered you in that level. It really makes things more interesting in my opinion, and it means the gameplay of the level changes depending on how you've played the game prior to it.

I dunno. Aside from the lack of custom block explanations, this is still one of my personal favorites.
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joeyjoejoejrshabbadu
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by joeyjoejoejrshabbadu »

I have to say, I love having such peaceful music (from my favorite Touhou even) in a level full of giant spiky things that want to crush you.
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Chompie »

I could point out lots of flaws and details that bothered me in today's level, but... why would I bother? It was a very, very good level. Anyone who wants non-linearity should look to this as a good example.

Complaints be damned, well done on this one, MrDeePay.
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by MrDeePay »

Rameau's Nephew wrote:I really like the æsthetics of this level, but it seems inappropriate to precede the castle which is to follow. Or rather, the castle seems inappropriate to follow this level, as the whole nighttime cloud city business is a good mood to end a sky world on, whereas the castle itself, though not exactly out of place, doesn't feel as though it was specifically designed for this world as such.
Some small history on the level.
When I was experimenting with the palettes WYE provided with the sky GFX (I didn't stay with the provided moon and added the one from Super Princess Peach in its place.), there was a sunset-styled one that I thought would've went nice with the AUS Mist song that was already in the ROM. I noticed Eastern Night later on in the music list and I tried that out and switched to a nighttime palette, which I ended up favoring over AUS/sunset.
Chompie wrote:I could point out lots of flaws and details that bothered me in today's level, but... why would I bother? It was a very, very good level.
Go ahead anyway, it could be useful.
Note: I have yet to watch all of today's LP.



Edit: Almost complete repost.

- The 1up is blocked off by the no Sprite blocks in the second room is to prevent Cape Mario from slamming into the ground, thrusting it up to safer ground.
- Springboard was to be used where you Yoshi jumped before the checkpoint in the event you didn't have him.
- The spot high above the blue pipe contained a star and I think (I can't look in the ROM through LM right now to make sure) another 1up.
- Acropolis means highest city in Greek.  Naming isn't something I'm good at, so that was the best I could come up with. I was reminded of that name from White Acropolis in Sonic '06.
- Yeah I probably should've used the message boxes to give clear explanations for the grey, blue, and green blocks. Plus gave a better indication that those were ON/OFF blocks.
- Meiling gets no respect.
- I would video reply where that last Yoshi pipe would've went, but I'm having PC troubles.
(It was a Star room that required Mario to part with Yoshi for a little bit, with the exit taking him to where the last green pipe was.)
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FPzero
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by FPzero »

Well I'm sorry about the upcoming boss, hopefully it didn't overshadow the rest of my level. I think it failed from lack of communication between Atma and i because I mentioned a vague idea of how it was to work, then he coded it and then there was a lot of bugfixing and I never got around to seeing the boss until near the end of everything. I guess I'll have more on the level as a whole when we see it tomorrow.
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Jabberwock
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Jabberwock »

I'm several videos behind, but man, a non-trivial number of the levels in this hack are really big and (in my opinion) sort of tedious-seeming.

Just curious... is your avoidance of tool use just a matter of personal principle? To me some of these levels seem downright unreasonable in their expectations (Zephyr Manor for example), as in, absurdly long and difficult, and not in a particularly fun or original way. But then, maybe my concept of what is reasonable is informed by how bad I am at SMW.

To clarify, I'm not dissing on the hack as a whole... a lot of the levels have been very cool, and the overworld is the best I've seen probably.
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Mineyl
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Mineyl »

Nah, there are a lot of levels that are too long in this game. Your complaint is justified.

Also, tomorrow's boss can DIAF. I spent like 20 minutes killing that thing because it wasn't obvious at all when I could and could not damage it. Maybe if I weren't so change resistant and actually played the game it came from, I'd have known what to do...
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by limepie20 »

Ok.

Red Switch Palace: The level itself was good. Except for the random obnoxious cutoff. And I'm sorry but the music choice was horrible.

Palace Acropolis: This is a breath of fresh air. I mean some of the level design was questionable and it would've helped to tell the player what each block did but at least it had a non vanilla gimmick. Most of the hack, to me, felt like smw with different graphics and I think that's boring. This was a nice level. Nice music choice, too.
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Pheonix
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Pheonix »

Actually Mineyl, that boss is damaged somewhat differently than its MP2 counterpart; although, I may add, which version of the boss is more annoying is almost a toss-up.
But yeah, I'd have to agree with the sentiment that past world 3 the hack begins to pick up a lot. It's just too bad that a handful of levels just are really out of place in terms of length. There are only really two annoyingly long levels left, though.
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Test Pilot Monkey
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Test Pilot Monkey »

S.N.N. wrote:I'm kind of wondering why people are upset that the switch blocks both helped AND hindered you
I've mentioned before, but I don't see why things should be made easier if you're good enough to get the switch palaces. This level does a great job of showing what I mean.
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Rameau's Nephew
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Rameau's Nephew »

They tell me that thing's called the "Spider Guardian", but I think we all know it's really the Deedle-Ball. I like to think the Deedle-Ball is representative of the ad bots which often plague SMWC. Its small, looping course and limited range of actions represent the bots' simple program and repetitive behavior, and the bombs it drops represent their spamming ad messages, which, though hardly physically harmful, make Mario's life a great deal more annoying (the are also largely identical). The difficulty in dealing actual damage to the Deedle-Ball represents the futility of trying to block individual ad bots; strike one down, and a whole heard of others swoop in to fill its place, as represented by the Deedle-Ball's increased rate of unloading its wearisome cargo as the battle progresses.

If ASMWCP were adapted to a Saturday morning cartoon in the manner of other Super Mario Bros. installmets, the Deedle-Ball would surely be the Token Dumb Guy among on the villainous team.

Fun fact: Even though you are immediately embiggened upon entering the pre-boss screen, and a second mushroom lies at your feet, the Deedle-Ball is much easier small, as the explosions will no longer destroy your blocks, making the back-and-forth trips much faster. The problem, of course, is that if you make one error due to not paying attention (and you invariably will, as this battle is so incredibly boring and repetitive that your attention will start to wander), you have to begin the funfair all over again. Still, I think this tactic provides a slight decrease in headache on the balance.

EDT: Oh, and who's the Nobel Laurette who came up with the line "This looks like technology all right." Seriously, that sounds like something the Deedle-Ball would write.
Last edited by Rameau's Nephew 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Crimson
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Crimson »

That level make me feel playing Sonic more than Metroid for some reason.
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Bean
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Bean »

The Spider Guardian was easy enough in Prime 2 if you knew how to boost properly. Now, this one? Yeah, he seemed way harder. It's four issues at once that have to be dealt with. You've got the time limit on the blocks, the missiles trying to destroy said blocks, the fact that you have to throw the block up at the right angle, and you also have to do it at the right time to cause damage. One too many things, in my opinion.

Still, that level was a decent 16-bit take on the actual level it's from, I suppose. The Sanctuary Fortress in the Gamecube game is a lot darker outside of the areas that have that neon glow going for it.
Last edited by Bean 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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raocow
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by raocow »

Also, I don't know if you guys noticed but the first time I encountered the boss, I had unlimited time, but not after I died.
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Test Pilot Monkey
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Test Pilot Monkey »

Metroid in the universe where everybody at Nintendo is colourblind.
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Paragraph
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by Paragraph »

Sanctuary Fortress is THE best area in any Prime game; lots of people agree. The palette works (not so much green, more neon), it's fun as hell with an awesome soundtrack and the granddaddy of cool bosses to top it off.

Level was a nice recreation. Boss, too. Spider Guardian is incredibly annoying. Not "hard" per se, just...annoying.

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FPzero
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by FPzero »

Author's Comments since you guys like them and I like explaining stuff.
Sanctuary Fortress was probably the second level inserted into the SMWCP rom because I was in ownership of the project back in 2009. After doing level 1, I decided I wanted to do something ambitious. So I went to one of my favorite areas in a video game and decided that I was going to translate Gamecube era graphics and colorations into 16-bit SMW. As you can probably tell, I'm a huge fan of the Metroid series and i wanted to pay it homage in the game somehow. So I redrew what I could of Sanctuary Fortress to fit into the game. Once I did that I built the first 4 screens or so and then promptly forgot about the level for a year and SMWCP went into hibernation. Once SNN took over the project I decided to pick it up once again and this time I finished the level.

I wanted to include some method of exploration or item upgrade in the level so I chose Spider Ball (Climb) since it would be easy to translate into SMW. The level is packed with nooks and crannies that are only accessible by climbing them, giving a little sense of exploration. When raocow got lost and was looking for the next place to go, that's the feeling of Metroid right there.

I agree the colors are a bit garish but with such a limited palette and graphic space there's not much I could do. The palette for that level is a confusing mess in Lunar Magic. All the tiles are hand-drawn using Prime 2 as a resource, including the background. The BG isn't that great but the background for the outside areas is nothing but a skyscape so hey, it worked I guess. Another instance of not having enough colors for good transition. Also, randomly, I like day to night transitions so I decided to spice up the level by doing a normal palette, a sunset palette where red tint got added to everything and then a night palette, then finally the little room with the stars.

The boss is a toss-up. As I mentioned yesterday, there was a lack of communication in its creation so much so that I didn't see its finished form until a pre-release of SMWCP. I'd envisioned a similar fight but lacked ability to make it. To be honest, my version might have been tougher, it didn't originally have a safe floor. I thought about having the guardian drop custom bombs which would act like ones in Super Metroid, where the small blast radius hurts you but not the bomb itself. The electrified track was planned from the start since you beat Spider Guardian in MP2 through indirect damage. Unfortunately, the track was rather hard to see when it was electrified and for some reason Atma decided to only put in one tile to hurt him on.

It's hard to balance a boss like that. The Bombs have to be a threat but the track has to be high or low enough to make them one without being too easy or too hard. And honestly, were it not for the explosions destroying the throw blocks, that would have been achieved. Maybe I should have thought of a setup involving throwing a modified key sprite or something.
In case anyone wants to spoil the "magic" behind how the Spider Climb works you can read this spoiler.
The "upgrade" does nothing more than transfer you from a version of the level where the tracks are nothing but blank tiles to one where they act as vine tiles. No ASM required.
As for why the timer started up again upon dying to the boss, I would hazard a guess that it's related to the multi-midway point.

Well, I'm about done rambling. From what I can tell, you had fun with the level itself raocow, sorry the boss put a damper on things at the end.

I've got one more piece of a level coming towards the end where I reference yet another game which no one will pick up on because honestly no one would ever think it's a reference besides the music. But we'll get there when we get there.
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by yoshicookiezeus »

Just wanted to say that this level and the world 6 fortress are probably my favourite levels in the entire hack. The boss should totally have been Quadraxis instead, though. :V
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Re: An SMWCentral Production: A game about some eggs

Post by S.N.N. »

Clearing up some things about the spider boss as well (because honestly, from watching it, I can imagine a lot of people getting confused with how to kill it).

-You do NOT need to hit the switch exactly when the ball is on the square. You just need the ball to cross the square when it's active (meaning if the ball is anywhere on the right side of its platform, that should be sufficient).
-I'm not sure why raocow was jumping and flinging the block up when he could have just flung it up right underneath that block while staying on the rail. That would have made things easier.

I agree with everyone else though - this is probably the most irritating/boring boss in the hack, although I personally didn't have much trouble beating it.
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