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All the S@nics - the end

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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by raocow »

heyy it's fine my man
I know you want the best for the lp
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Crow »

tomorrow: sonic spinball never ends

today: a blink-and-you-miss it moment of

seeing the special stage spring very briefly at around 5:05

i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by xnamkcor »

Fun Fact: The GBA scales very well to native DVD resolution.

PS: CRT graphical filters for LCD games is hilarious.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Heavy Sigh »

Fun Sonic Facts!

At the behest of Naka and his desire for a refreshing change of pace from 3D game development, Dimps and Sonic Team agreed that Sonic Advance would feature a gameplay style much like the original Genesis games, decided to return to a gameplay style similar to the original Genesis Sonic games. However, the new game would also incorporate ideas from the newer parts of the series, like the grind rails from SA2 and Yuji Uekawa's new character designs. Plus, since they were busy porting both Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 to Nintendo platforms, they decided to use the GBA's far more powerful processor to enhance the chao-raising process originally thought up for the Dreamcast's VMU. Surprisingly, since the Chao raising simulator would need to utilize the brand-new GameCube-GBA Link Cable, this meant Sonic Advance was one of the first games to ever utilize the peripheral.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by kitikami »

After seeing both settings, i prefer the first video colors to the the highly-saturated look of the new one, but from the YouTube comments it seems that is probably the minority view.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by SAJewers »

kitikami wrote: 3 years ago After seeing both settings, i prefer the first video colors to the the highly-saturated look of the new one, but from the YouTube comments it seems that is probably the minority view.
Yeah, definitely agree with you. Today's video looks way to bright and blown out.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by FourteenthOrder »

GBA desaturation filters are really something that needs to be considered on a game-by-game basis rather than a blanket application. Like, some games used hugely saturated colors to represent darker ones due to the lack of backlight and I would never emulate those in raw output, but Sonic Advance is decidedly not one of those.

Like, look at these screenshots from videos 1 and 2:
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and tell me which better matches the colors of the logo and official artwork:
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Paragraph »

That's a good comparison.

One thing to keep in mind too is that while some developers definitely were aware of the GBA's color and lighting problems, others weren't or didn't care, so it's impossible to say how much of popping, saturated colors is overdone to eliminate some hardware issues, or done exactly like that because the artists wanted these colors. One stunning example imo is the evolution of the GBA Castlevania graphics.

Circle of the Moon
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This game was an early GBA game, and widely criticized for being way too dark, the play character blends in too much with the background and it's super hard to make out what's going on. It's not an issue anymore due to most GBA games being played on an emulator, or an Advance SP, but you can clearly see how it was a definite issue, which the developers might simply have not noticed.

Harmony of Dissonance
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In a very clear reaction to the critique of CotM's graphics, its successor HoD is positively eye-searing: the player character has a blue outline and leaves after-images wherever he goes, everything is very very bright and you could argue that yes, emulating this perfectly and calling it ugly misses the point, it was intended to pop at a typical GBA screen and even on an SP it would probably be too bright and contrast-y.

Aria of Sorrow
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The final CV on GBA shows that they have finally found the best of both worlds: clear, bright colors, definite contrast of player character with background (it's probably no coincidence that Soma wears white), without resorting to "shortcuts" like the outline of HoD. It probably helps that as a later GBA game, the SP was probably out (too lazy to check sorry) and they could be a little more lenient than with HoD. I don't know about the latter's critical reception beyond "it's not really good" (because that's my opinion lol), but it probably got some words as being over-corrected in the wrong direction regardless of hardware, too.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Piesonscreations »

FourteenthOrder wrote: 3 years ago GBA desaturation filters are really something that needs to be considered on a game-by-game basis rather than a blanket application. Like, some games used hugely saturated colors to represent darker ones due to the lack of backlight and I would never emulate those in raw output, but Sonic Advance is decidedly not one of those.

Like, look at these screenshots from videos 1 and 2:
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and tell me which better matches the colors of the logo and official artwork:
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Yeah, this is basically the stuff I was saying yesterday, especially with how Sonic's in-game colors when raw match up pretty well to the promo art. Which is not to say that you can't prefer the colors being more desaturated.

My main gripes with the filters is the lack of contrast, and how they turn the blacks into greys, which is fair to the original screen, but uh, I doubt a single artist working on a GBA game liked this. But also, I'm very used to the raw look of GBA games because I used to emulate them even back in the day, with no filters, so a GBA game to me always just has this bright and pastel feel (for the most part.)

Also, for historical reasons, I think the unfiltered look is important to have, since that's what basically every sprite rip and sprite animation in the 2000s to this day are still using, and what is Sonic without it's flash animations? That's gamer culture, bro.
Paragraph wrote: 3 years ago One thing to keep in mind too is that while some developers definitely were aware of the GBA's color and lighting problems, others weren't or didn't care, so it's impossible to say how much of popping, saturated colors is overdone to eliminate some hardware issues, or done exactly like that because the artists wanted these colors.
One thing that should not be skipped over is that, especially in the early stages, odds are that most artists wouldn't have had a dev kit to test graphics on, much less the ability to do constant builds to check how the graphics looked. Most likely if they even checked, they would've just turned the contrast and brightness from their monitors a whole bunch, and that's how they gathered a general idea.
This is conjeture, of course, but it doesn't seem unlikely from my point of view.

Really, the main takeaway from all of this is that Nintendo should've just included a backlight from the get go.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by thatguyif »

Heavy Sigh wrote: 3 years ago Fun Sonic Facts!
Welcome back Heavy Sigh, how was your vacation from facts
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by SAJewers »

Paragraph wrote: 3 years ago It probably helps that as a later GBA game, the SP was probably out (too lazy to check sorry) and they could be a little more lenient than with HoD.
GBA SP/AGS-001 came out in Japan 14 Feb 2003. AoS came out in NA 6 May 2003 (both per wikipedia). However, apparently the original GBA SP doesn't have the colour issues, it's the backlit SP+/AGS-101 that came out in September 2005 (per wikipedia).

On the topic though, I did end up coming across this thread on IGN from 15 years ago debating it, with input from an actual developer in Adam Tierney. Interesting read.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Nast »

Sure is lonely without Tails following you around, like in the Genesis days.

On an unrelated note, I wonder what up, right, down, right, L, right, R, right, A at the character select would do n~yoron
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Grounder »

At least emeralds are kept between characters, even if only Sonic can really use them.

UNLIKE A CERTAIN SEQUEL WITH A WAY WORSE SPECIAL STAGE METHOD
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Kleetus »

We all need to take a moment to appreciate Eggman's frames in this game.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Crow »

Grounder wrote: 3 years ago At least emeralds are kept between characters, even if only Sonic can really use them.

UNLIKE A CERTAIN SEQUEL WITH A WAY WORSE SPECIAL STAGE METHOD

advance 2 is going to need a cleanup video per emerald tbh

i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Blivsey »

I remember using that little theme you heard at the end of the video as the theme of my MaGLX2 bonus level

It is very good
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by warpio »

Since the non-existent story was mentioned, I wondered if this was a case where you had to look up the manual to learn the story, since this was still back in the days when manuals existed and were sometimes still relevant.
Well... that's sort of the case, but it's still not much.
The evil scientist, Dr. Eggman, has hatched another dastardly plot. He plans to build a Dr. Eggman empire by turning all the animals into robots. "If I gather all 7 Chao Emeralds, I'll gain unimaginable power!" You can't just watch your comrades become tools of Dr. Eggman! Command Sonic as he dashes into action along with his pals, Amy, Knuckles, and Tails, to stop the evil Dr. Eggman!
Source: http://info.sonicretro.org/index.php?ti ... pdf&page=6

So it's just the same story as the first game, but with Sonic's friends tagging along. And also Eggman has some vague idea of using the power of the Emeralds in some unspecified way. Sure why not.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Bean »

An excuse plot for a good game. Works for me. Tonight's zone is my favorite, more for the music than anything.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by xnamkcor »

NastCF wrote: 3 years ago Sure is lonely without Tails following you around, like in the Genesis days.

On an unrelated note, I wonder what up, right, down, right, L, right, R, right, A at the character select would do n~yoron
I think it would make Tails follow you like a partner.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Grounder »




You were told wrong for this game, IIRC.

Also, please, for the love of rings, be open to reconsidering your strategy for Advance 2.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by raocow »

in what way, like what do you mean
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Grounder »

raocow wrote: 3 years ago in what way, like what do you mean
It actually seems I was mistaken. I thought you needed multiple playthroughs with all emeralds to unlock Super Sonic's stage, but this is not the case. Oops.
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I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Kincyr »

Grounder wrote: 3 years ago It actually seems I was mistaken. I thought you needed multiple playthroughs with all emeralds to unlock Super Sonic's stage, but this is not the case. Oops.
I initially thought the same thing until I refreshed and saw your post.

out of consideration for raocow, I put details under nested spoilers below
LP-wise:
you only need Sonic with all 7 emeralds, but you also need to
simply beat the game with the other 3 characters (that you unlock as you progress as Sonic)
not-likely LP-wise:
though it's true that getting all 7 emeralds each for multiple characters unlocks extra stuff:
any 1 character:
Tiny Chao Garden v2
any 2 characters:
Sound Test
any 3 characters:
Boss option for Time Attack
all 4 characters:
unlock Amy as the 5th playable character
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Crow »

in advance 2, you will actually have to get all the emeralds as sonic, fwiw. it's great. it's amazing. this game's true ending is going to be actually worse to get than shadow's, i promise. you also have to beat the game as every character i think.

in advance 3! there aren't separate character playthroughs and thus only one playthrough will be needed, but cleanup will required a loop 2 anyways, almost guaranteed, so.

for all three advance games i support the strategy of each emerald getting its own video though, since for all three emeralds are on a per-zone basis

barring one zone in advance 1 having two emeralds



Also, I highly recommend learning how to soft-reset a GBA.
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Re: All The S@nics - Advance - Rebuild Of Pocket Adventure

Post by Nast »

You know I'm realizing now that this game's level design doesn't flow too well compared to the Genesis games. There's so many obstacles that bring you to an abrupt stop, or enemies that you can't see ahead of time. The screen crunch, though not egregious, still doesn't help.

Also at 6:40 we get an early glimpse at Dimps' dickish bottomless pits! Lookin' forward to many, many more.
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