All the S@nics - Unleashed (WiiS2) - Hungry Like the Wolf

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
User avatar
Kleetus
Contrary to popular belief, dying is NOT cool.
Posts: 386
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Under a starless sky (due to light pollution)

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Kleetus »

I've been waiting for this. I went back and played this game, beat it in anticipation.

The attack and damage are different stats thing really confused me as a kid. Some items increase one while decreasing the other, but damage is a fairly invisible stat and the distinction between attack and damage aren't shown anywhere. The same goes for defense and armor.

This isn't even a "just read the manual" thing because it's not explained there either.
This stuff might be obvious now, but playing it in 2009 in the back of the car during a trip to Montreal when your only experience with rpgs so far was pokemon and Mario and Luigi, it's not very obvious.

Edit: Spoiled because I thought this was something raocow already figured out. Should watch the entire video next time.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
KobaBeach
i am the snow ninja ghghgh
Posts: 4028
Joined: 9 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal
https://koba.talkhaus.com/

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by KobaBeach »

i feel like misses in rpgs hurt more when it's like. constant like this game or ff2 nes.

fucks me up that what raocow ends up playing, technically derusting him from rpgs is like. mario & luigi. zwei. mega man legends. this. it's honestly pretty beautiful
User avatar
EllenHouraisan
Witch of Starlight
Posts: 288
Joined: 9 months ago
Pronouns: she/her

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by EllenHouraisan »

Kleetus wrote: 1 month ago Spoiled because I thought this was something raocow already figured out. Should watch the entire video next time.
He did figure it out, but then un-figured it out as it went. Somehow!

Anyways, I find it funny that raocow mentions missing as being a big thing in jRPGs specifically, when it's more of a wRPG thing, since those tend to try to simulate TTRPG dice rolls, but without a DM to make failing have interesting consequences/be less irritating on the players. So you're just sitting there missing the huge troll over and over again because its numbers are higher than yours. In jRPGs, it's usually much less of an issue, unless you're afflicted by some negative status or the enemy has some evasion buff or something like that.

Looking at you, Koga from Pokemon. :gravytea:
Image
Image
Image
:trans_pride: :bi_pride:
User avatar
Catabo
:3
Posts: 314
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Catabo »

The glitched? "jump" sfx when you're chasing an enemy is hilarious. I know the exact sound it's probably supposed to come out as (the classic Sonic jump sfx) but then all you get is that pathetic bwwoooooep. Poor square wave just can't make it all the way up the sweep.
Catabo wrote: 1 month ago I hope you're ready to read the codex in this BioWare game!
THE_CODEX.png
THE_CODEX.png (436.14 KiB) Viewed 458 times
gREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY I WAS KIDDING ABOUT THE CODEX HELP
User avatar
Heavy Sigh
Posts: 803
Joined: 9 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Heavy Sigh »

Fun Sonic Facts!

The only reason Sonic Chronicles exists is because Knights of the Old Republic was made before it, as two of the founders of Bioware (Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk) had become friends with Sega of America's president Simon Jeffery from his previous tenure at Lucasarts.
User avatar
KobaBeach
i am the snow ninja ghghgh
Posts: 4028
Joined: 9 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal
https://koba.talkhaus.com/

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by KobaBeach »

Catabo wrote: 1 month ago
Catabo wrote: 1 month ago I hope you're ready to read the codex in this BioWare game!
THE_CODEX.png
gREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY I WAS KIDDING ABOUT THE CODEX HELP
there is a codex in star ocean 3 and i actively ignored it outside of series lore curios, so stuff like it being an Actual Thing in FFXIII and Bioware's other titles gives me major apprehension

i still want to play kotor and jade empire
User avatar
camwoodstock
raocow play floigan brothers on dreamcast
Posts: 501
Joined: 8 years ago
Pronouns: her/him
Location: Tong-Nou

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by camwoodstock »

EllenHouraisan wrote: 1 month ago
Kleetus wrote: 1 month ago Spoiled because I thought this was something raocow already figured out. Should watch the entire video next time.
He did figure it out, but then un-figured it out as it went. Somehow!
after the pikmin lp we're just kind of used to raocow doing everything the wrong way yet simultaneously brute forcing a solution that was never meant to work, into working. (we mean this in the best of ways btw!)
"dingus prime, the alpha and omega of utter spoons"
~camwoodstock | she/he (genderfluid) | :bi_pride: :genderfluid_pride: | &: Tori (she/her) | The Wall of Turner
Image
thatguyif
Posts: 951
Joined: 8 years ago
Pronouns: We Are The 99%
Location: Over There

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by thatguyif »

camwoodstock wrote: 1 month ago like i get poking at the particularly extreme tone and how it's silly, we will concede that, but there are things that did go down, there's entire fan wiki articles dissecting the consequences of these events (incomplete, mind), and most notably of which are actual mandates sega has openly put out regarding the sonic branding. mandates that we still do, in fact, see the consequences of.
The question is whether the actual mandates regarding branding for the games are directly a consequence of the lawsuits. I have serious doubts, and a fan wiki is not going to be a good source for whether that's the case. To wit:
it's not "just the comics" mind you; a few characters from the "main" console games (well, as "main" as you get for a series like sonic), most notably black doom/evil pete, an entire villain from shadow the hedgehog, is just kinda Locked to that game now for all eternity, are just in a limbo state now.
Is that really the case, though? Black Doom not being in any game since Shadow the Hedgehog is like just about every other villain from a mainline Sonic game from that decade: Biolizard, Mephiles and Solaris, Emerl/Gemerl, Erazor Djinn/Alf Layla wa-Layla,

Merlina/Dark Queen

, Captain Whiskers,

Dark Gaia

. The only "villain" that has returned and regularly is Metal Sonic, and that's because Metal Sonic is an iconic character that dates back to the 90s. (Eggman Nega also kind of appears post-Rivals, but he's only shown up in the Mario and Sonic at the Olympics Games, so that doesn't really count.) You could equally argue that Sega/Sonic Team simply feels no need to bring back Black Doom, since he served a specific purpose for Shadow the Hedgehog that doesn't apply to other Sonic games. "But he made Shadow," you might say, but then I would go back to what I said about lore and narrative: There was a lot of excess on that front for a franchise that didn't really need it. And let's be real: Black Doom being Shadow's "father" always came off as ridiculous. (Same could apply to Shadow's origin in general...but still). Picking at that just feels like all those Zelda fans who obsess over the contradictions of the timeline, especially post-Breath of the Wild.
also the fact that sonic underground's entire ending was originally going to be put into the comics as the series never got a proper final season, but when Everything Regarding The Comics struck, that ending was just lost to copyright limbo; so there's... at least one entire spin-off that's gonna go unresolved.
Okay, I'll admit I kept my scope a little narrow here. I should've said "TV shows, comics, books, etc." Supplementary materials, in other words. My bad there. I consider them irrelevant because they don't provide anything to the games themselves, and instead the games provided them something to work with. In the case of the TV shows, exceptions apply to "SatAm," which cameoed in Spinball, and Sonic Boom. But they're exceptions, not rules. The OVAs, X, Underground...honestly, George Lucas Rules apply here, really.
the mandates also, hilariously, took out the concept of sonic showing excessive emotion. make of that one what you will.
That one's easy to make out. That just smacks of the brand mandates Miyamoto et al applied to Mario in the early 2010s. They probably wanted to codify Sonic's behavior in a way in order to maintain a level of consistency so that he wouldn't go off-brand out of character. Overly expressive? "Cool guys" don't do that. Sonic's a "cool guy," so of course they put the kibosh on it. Happens all the time in branding apparatuses in marketing, especially for franchises. Is it stupid? Yeah sure. But stupidity is the norm for branding of any kind.
so like... no, there were consequences of this. was the tone of our original message a bit silly? yeah. but the take of "well nothing actually happened so that's a little funny you mention it!" is just kind of. wholly mis-interpreting the entire point of the message. bc there's a reason we haven't seen evil pete in awhile and it's the "nothing" you mentioned, which when you think about it is kinda bonkers (he is pretty much a one-off villain for the game but like... that's a core-ish part of shadow's backstory from that particular game that they aren't even allowed to allude to)
You bring up a fan wiki (which, again, you have to take that with a grain of salt in terms of reliability and neutrality), and a single villain from a single game whose connection to an active character in the franchise is basically through a very tired sci-fi trope. (And that's the most "prominent.") While there were certainly consequences to the Penders' lawsuits (as I said, he fucked over the comics, and as you noted, there were some consequences to a TV series), the actual damage done to the most important aspect of the Sonic franchise, i.e. the games, is questionable at best, extremely negligible at worst. It requires a lot of assumption into timing and coincidences, which I've learned not to trust. That's why I downplayed it.
Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
User avatar
KobaBeach
i am the snow ninja ghghgh
Posts: 4028
Joined: 9 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal
https://koba.talkhaus.com/

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by KobaBeach »

i just played up to the middle? of chapter 2 of this game while listening to saifam/asia records eurobeat (power of magic by alphatown) and WOW this game is ridiculously boring
i would really like to know what possessed bioware to make every battle run on either a) dice rolls or b) osu controlled dice rolls. i get that it's like, wrpg standard due to them being birthed from dnd and video games inspired by dnd. but this is ridiculous. not even unlimited saga does this, unlimited saga literally gives you like a negligible amount of control.

this is like Uh Oh Fucker better be good at shitty osu or tails' healing skill won't work at all. somecallmejohnny mentioned putting the "no osu bullshit on pow moves" chao on cream and yeah that's basically how you're meant to play this game like a normal person. speaking of which i love the chao equipping mechanic, little bit of sanity in an otherwise garbage game

like my wrpg experience is ultima 1 and fallout 1 but. fallout 1 does not do failed attacks as much as this and it's a crpg from 1997. also the self repair shit with the swatbots feels just as bad as the last time i've seen an rpg enemy do that, which was every boss encounter in breath of fire 1-3, haven't played 4 or 5 yet. and it felt just as bad in those games

but yeah like i literally cannot do the dragging osu because it constantly appears at random points in the screen and the speed feels so unnatural, it's actually hard to slow down your movements enough to pull it off. also i just want to state that osu bullshit is literally as bad as the garbage 5 minute timed hits per attack in YIIK. it drags out battles for no reason, and it fucks with my hand.

if you want a special attack boost method, ff8 did it so much better by just having you mash square while holding select during the 50 hour long animation, mother 3 has the tapping buttons to the beat of the song gimmick (which barely works on most emulators). it feels like they wanted to make turn based battles "not boring" and they wound up making a convoluted way of making normal attacks be cruise control for victory, yet again, as usual.
also i think it's funny that melonds and drastic all have issues with timing that fucks up the fmvs super bad resulting in the hard lock. i hope arisotura and the drastic team end up fixing it for their emulators soonish. first time i've used desmume in like a year
User avatar
Lord Ruby
Posts: 88
Joined: 9 months ago
Location: Sweden

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Lord Ruby »

That wiki article has a rather confusingly constructed flow to it, but what it specifically says about Evil Pete is:
For Archie Comics' Sonic the Hedgehog comic series specifically, as relevant to the legal case, the following mandates in effect were (but possibly not limited to) as follows:
[...]
Content from the following Sonic games were not permissible:
  • Metal Overlord from Sonic Heroes.
  • Black Doom from Shadow the Hedgehog.
  • All characters and content (with the exception of original Sega characters) from Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood.
That is, it only explicitly says he's banned from these comics. As for why he isn't in the games, If's explanation sounds likely, they just don't have a use for him any more just like all the other one-off villains.

The list in general seems to have three purposes: Making sure they don't do something that gets them sued. Taking precautions to prevent something like this from happening again. And restricting the creative freedom allowed in the licenses in exchange for a more consistent brand. The first two of these would be related to the lawsuit, while the last one seems unrelated and much more of a matter of changing brand strategy, which just happened at around the same time. And, hey, it's fine to prefer the stories that resulted from the new brand strategy (Colours et cetera) just like it's fine to prefer the ones that came from the old one (Adventure 2, Shadow, et cetera), I've personally enjoyed instances of both approaches in their own ways.

Anyway, the level of (in)accuracy we see in this game is ... unfortunate. I don't think I've ever seen anything this extreme in any RPG I've played (not counting enemies missing when I've gone for evasion builds, but that's very different). The action commands also don't seem particularly fun, which is also unfortunate. But nice ideas, bad execution can be interesting to watch, so let's see how this develops.
a
User avatar
Shard1697
Posts: 347
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Shard1697 »

no offense to any of these people but it is very very funny to me how many people in the youtube comments are like "oh I love this game 🙂"
User avatar
Reecer7
Crack is fun and nice and a good time!
Posts: 433
Joined: 7 years ago
Pronouns: he/him/his
https://cro-iba.talkhaus.com/

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Reecer7 »

personally i think ken penders is also the reason nintendo won't bring dimentio back and i'm not explaining this stance but i DO hate him for it

yeah i feel like as far as the sonic games are concerned, their flattening is almost entirely cynical marketing be-on-brandedness stuff. it wasn't exactly special to sega.
call me reecer6, not reecer7, please! gotta maintain that same internet brand. actually i'm cro-iba now, it's cooler
Image
Image
strange bluebird website (check it out for my art!)
User avatar
KobaBeach
i am the snow ninja ghghgh
Posts: 4028
Joined: 9 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal
https://koba.talkhaus.com/

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by KobaBeach »

Shard1697 wrote: 1 month ago no offense to any of these people but it is very very funny to me how many people in the youtube comments are like "oh I love this game 🙂"
isn't it like three people.
User avatar
camwoodstock
raocow play floigan brothers on dreamcast
Posts: 501
Joined: 8 years ago
Pronouns: her/him
Location: Tong-Nou

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by camwoodstock »

Reecer7 wrote: 1 month ago personally i think ken penders is also the reason nintendo won't bring dimentio back and i'm not explaining this stance but i DO hate him for it
we know this is a Goof but honestly kenders does seem like the guy who would somehow try to claim ownership of a character from a game he didn't even work on. dude's unhinged enough for it. (this doesn't need any citation or fan wiki it just needs you to look at his twitter for more than a minute)
Shard1697 wrote: 1 month ago no offense to any of these people but it is very very funny to me how many people in the youtube comments are like "oh I love this game 🙂
honestly kinda love the juxtaposition of the comments and the Everywhere Else. humor is the mixture of people freaking out and people just being like "aight" we thinks
"dingus prime, the alpha and omega of utter spoons"
~camwoodstock | she/he (genderfluid) | :bi_pride: :genderfluid_pride: | &: Tori (she/her) | The Wall of Turner
Image
User avatar
Heavy Sigh
Posts: 803
Joined: 9 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Heavy Sigh »

Fun Sonic Facts!

Development of Sonic Chronicles began in 2006 when BioWare began to look into expanding their development portfolio into the handheld space. As Bioware cofounder Ray Muzyka was an enormous Sonic Fan, he was able to use a preexisting relationship with Sega of America's new president Simon Jeffery to pitch a Sonic RPG project, remarking "wouldn't it be wacky but interesting to make a mobile 'E for Everyone Sonic RPG'?". A month or so thereafter, the development of a Sonic handheld RPG began, and eventually the project had over 30 people involved, though not all at one time.

However, since this was Bioware's first handheld project, things wouldn't go as smoothly as anyone hoped. But the biggest stumbling block to Sonic Chronicles's success would be, in a sad twist of fate, Bioware's own success.
User avatar
Catabo
:3
Posts: 314
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Catabo »

1.png
1.png (32.24 KiB) Viewed 330 times
Return of the 500 IQ Punch!
User avatar
Shard1697
Posts: 347
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Shard1697 »

welcome to central city

be bep, babep ba bep, bo bep bep bep bep BEP
User avatar
Grounder
Posts: 5008
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Grounder »

so here's a robot from the saturday sonic cartoon on the casual
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

ImageImageImage
User avatar
KobaBeach
i am the snow ninja ghghgh
Posts: 4028
Joined: 9 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal
https://koba.talkhaus.com/

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by KobaBeach »

dont say the word "swatbot" too loudly or ken penders will sue you for stealing his ip (even if he didn't make swatbots)
User avatar
QuiEstFaba
Une machine pour faire des vaches
Posts: 109
Joined: 8 months ago
Location: Deep in the heart of darkest Lumania

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by QuiEstFaba »

camwoodstock wrote: 1 month ago
Reecer7 wrote: 1 month ago personally i think ken penders is also the reason nintendo won't bring dimentio back and i'm not explaining this stance but i DO hate him for it
we know this is a Goof but honestly kenders does seem like the guy who would somehow try to claim ownership of a character from a game he didn't even work on. dude's unhinged enough for it. (this doesn't need any citation or fan wiki it just needs you to look at his twitter for more than a minute)
I mean, if the crypto scheme was any indication, he seems to feel as though he owns the rights to making Knuckles green.
One sunny morning you get up, and you make your will, and you pass the salt to the people who care about you, but you never know who's talking to you....
User avatar
Bean
Yep.
Posts: 3958
Joined: 12 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Bean »

I'm a bit behind on the last few days here, but that is a perfect subtitle for the thread.
User avatar
Catabo
:3
Posts: 314
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Catabo »

smb3 pipes patch.png
smb3 pipes patch.png (34.32 KiB) Viewed 224 times
You can't have a portable Sonic game without having Sonic go through some tubes!

GUN Soldier Who Regrets His Career Choice is my new favourite Sonic character.
User avatar
KobaBeach
i am the snow ninja ghghgh
Posts: 4028
Joined: 9 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal
https://koba.talkhaus.com/

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by KobaBeach »

From what I've heard in Somecallmejohnny's re-review, you can savescum to control the chao you get from each egg, likely during when you grab the egg? I don't expect raocow to do it, but there are some good chao that you could go for multiples of once you find them out.

Advice for breaking the game:
Namely the Ferox chao. Their main bonus is removing the Osu! nonsense in each POW move. Usual rule of thumb from what I can tell is to give it to a certain hidden character, who is the white mage and has some powerful support skills. But I feel like if you have the free time, nothing's stopping you from savescumming until you get four Feroxes and giving them to your whole party for endless POW moves, especially when mixed with the white mage who has a PP recovery spell.

Ovus is also good as he's essentially a one time Auto-Life (FF)/Revive (SaGa), but since it's one-time, I feel like Ferox might be more worthwhile since it bypasses the annoying QTEs.
It could take like an hour or so of retrying to get four of the one I'm thinking of, since they're of unique ranking, which would eat into your free time, though. I don't think you have much if you keep game playing to only a certain timeframe, most likely to record three games a day. Despite my initial thoughts as I started the game, unique are not one only, even in Japanese they're translated as "Super Rare". So don't be discouraged.

From what I can tell the person running the Thanks, Ken Penders blog actually played this way by sheer accident, she just got multiples of this one somehow. I did not watch her LP though, maybe someday, I'm not that much of an LP person outside of raocow and some other SomethingAwful people.

I'm not gonna try to backseat game in this LP by forcing you to play this way, rao, but consider this if it gets to be too much for you. Especially if the game is gonna constantly give you repeats, I actually got all new ones, and I'm basically one, two LP episodes ahead of you.

Feel free to reply if anything I said should be spoilered, anyone. Mods can also edit it.

I'm thinking of doing this in my playthrough, it is cheating, but this game is too annoying.
User avatar
Donut
Posts: 166
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Donut »

A thought I had while watching raocow miss constantly tonight: I wonder if the game's battle system came about from the idea that a speed-focused character like Sonic would rely on evading attacks far more than defending against them? I could see that being a base idea that was later generalized to every character after it was far too late to realize this is a bad idea.

Either way, this game is fascinating trainwreck and I'm glad I finally get to see why it has the reputation that it does. It feels like a Newgrounds project that somehow found its way onto a DS cartridge.
User avatar
Mata Hari
Posts: 2456
Joined: 12 years ago
https://matahari.talkhaus.com/

Re: All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

Post by Mata Hari »

So the idea that BioWare had to throw out most of the OST for legal reasons is a myth, right? Like, they're just rinky-dink MIDIs because the game was rushed, not because they ripped them off Sonic fansites or whatever the hell people say.
Post Reply