All the S@nics - the end

[Awoo]

I thought it having to be an officially developed or licences game by sega was a given, but if it's not clear I'll say it here upfront: it has to be an official game of some kind. Otherwise this could go on forever.

Games where changing the character changes the level or gameplay in a *significant* way get multiple playthrough. Would I play Sonic 3 with Tails only? No. Would I play it with Knuckles only? Yes. Because there are significant differences.

So that pretty much rules out Sonic 2 & Knuckles as anything other than a one-shot? Makes sense.

[Sebby19]

I guess that means we'll never see the glory that is Super Tails (and his Super Flickies)

[Piesonscreations]

Games are iffy, uh, kitty got the flicky, uh
Got the flicky, uh- rings you need fifty, uh
(SEGANG!)

[Zummorr]

I thought it having to be an officially developed or licences game by sega was a given, but if it's not clear I'll say it here upfront: it has to be an official game of some kind. Otherwise this could go on forever.

Is it wrong for me to consider you would pull a fast one? We assumed that AtMM meant specifically video games, an assumption made incorrect by The Megaman Board Game.

And here you just say "game" Twice without specifying "video game." Does that mean Sonic Crash Course is on the table?

[raocow]

I guess you aren't wrong, and strictly speaking atmm was SUPPOSED to be video game, haha

Assume video games, and assume official. Like my thesis wasn't scripted so I haven't considered every nuance of my words.

[BobisOnlyBob]

I guess you aren't wrong, and strictly speaking atmm was SUPPOSED to be video game, haha

Assume video games, and assume official. Like my thesis wasn't scripted so I haven't considered every nuance of my words.

Expect to receive some truly ridiculous Sonic paraphernalia and physical games come next ACT :)

[moogy]

My hot take is that Sonic Adventure 2 is the best Sonic game by a mile (and a pretty good game in general), but only if you take the time to learn every stage to the point of being able to time/score attack them. Which no sane person is going to do, so... Fantastic soundtrack either way though!

For the 2D games, I think Sonic 2 has the most generally purposeful and coherent level design. I predict it will be raocow's favorite of the Genesis/Megadrive titles... well, maybe not if he goes for 100%, since the minigame really kinda sucks.

[Crow]

Sonic 2 is fine except the entire ending stretch is real bad and ruins my enjoyment of the rest tbh

[CrappyBlueLuigi]

^ basically my opinion, too. oil ocean is visually busy and super winding, metropolis goes on for too long and is such a slog, sky chase gets boring, and wing fortress... i just never enjoy myself in sonic levels that are 1-2 layers of level above bottomless pits

[BobisOnlyBob]

Metropolis and Wing Fortress music though, my jams <3 and Sky Chase is a super chill breather level after the exhaustion of Metropolis before the home stretch.

[CrappyBlueLuigi]

oh, totally! metropolis and sky chase have two of my favorite tracks in sonic 2's soundtrack. sky chase in particular is incredibly relaxing

[KobaBeach]

i have a lot of complex opinions on the 3d games and i was gonna give my opinions on all the platformers but i thought just the 3d games themselves would make for an intersting post so here.

Sonic Adventure is not a very good game but for 1998, it was something special. It has its issues but it was a childhood game for me, so I can't separate myself from it. Every time I needed it, it was there. Even the more annoying portions of the game, Amy and Big, I can get through those no problem. It was the ideal 3D Sonic for me, alongside Sonic Robo Blast 2. It was fast, it controlled great, everyone felt fresh (Amy and Big in a bad way though), and despite all the glitches, like Pokémon GRBY, it just made the game more fascinating for me. It's why I like breaking games like FF8 and SaGa Frontier and maneuvering through bullshit mechanics in the SaGa games.

Sonic Adventure 2 basically takes Adventure and downgrades it. Speed stages are extremely linear and focus on spectacle over substance, Emerald Hunting is a pain thanks to complex, ambitious stages mixed with a nerfed radar that only displays one target at a time, the realistic tank-like controls of the Mech Shooting stages make it feel like you're walking through molasses the whole way through, and Driving stages are just pointless and superfluous, as someone who likes racing games I would just rather play a kart racer or an arcade racer and have a better time. As stupid as the story is, it's entertaining, but the game itself is only fun for me if you're trying to get A Ranks. I only play this for the Chao, Shadow and Sonic.

Sonic Heroes is the first 3D Sonic game I actually bought (PS2 version) and subsequently, as I got older, it was the game that made me realize that the Sonic series has very blatant Issues. It's one of those games I just can't defend. It plays like ass, you have to play the game four times and suffer through some of the worst special stages in the entire series for the seven emeralds, levels are repetitive and balls fucking long. It's legitimately one of my least favorite games I have ever played.

Shadow the Hedgehog makes me ashamed. As a kid, I used to be the kind of ~gamer~ who acted like games like Halo and GTA were stupid and dumb and ruined video games (BRING BLUE SKIES BACK TO GAMES) so I always thought this game was stupid. I played it yes, but I always felt it tried too hard to be edgy and follow fan demands to the point of chasing trends in the vague hope of selling well. It's not like the Sonic series was always free from mistakes, I knew this as a kid despite loving it, but Shadow is like that little brother who keeps spouting "epic" one liners and slurs he picks up from PewDiePie videos. You don't want to be associated with him.

Sonic 06 is The Room in game form. I had the misfortune of playing this as a little 10 yo and I kept deluding myself into thinking it was not that bad because, and I quote, "at least it's not Sonic Genesis!" but I quickly realized how stupid I am. LPs of this are my favorite kind of internet video, the schadenfreude exuding from the video as the game goes on, the pain the player(s) feel, the sheer randomized punishment the game pulls out of its ass... It's art. Though I only give respect to those who finish the four stories. Game Grumps need not apply.

Sonic Unleashed is weird. I have trouble controlling the extremely linear Daytime segments, that feel slippery and awful to play when not boosting all the time compared to the Adventure era games, even 06. Meanwhile the Nighttime stages are far easier to control but they are the epitome of filler. I'm not a fan of beat 'em ups but this the werehog is probably my least favorite. The Sun and Moon coins in the PS360 version also kill the game for me, I managed to slog through the WiiS2 version but not this one. It's why I steer clear of 3D boost games.

I have not played much of Sonic Generations, and I currently don't have access to a PS3. I'd pirate it (no money) but I have a lot more games to play.

Haven't had a chance to play Colors, Lost World or Forces.

[Blivsey]

Since Sonic CD came out in Japan first, that means we're getting the JP soundtrack, right? Get funky.

[Crow]

US soundtrack is superior tho

Also sky chase is a boring autoscroller that plays nothing like the rest of the game and is basically filler. Mania's Mirage Saloon act 1 is worse though so ehh

I don't actually mind Oil Ocean though it's nothing special either

[Awoo]

US soundtrack is superior tho

[raekuul]

Since Sonic CD came out in Japan first, that means we're getting the JP soundtrack, right? Get funky.

US soundtrack is superior tho

Pretty soon an entirely unresolvable argument was fully in progress.

[BobisOnlyBob]

Pretty soon an entirely unresolvable argument was fully in progress.

This is setting the tone for 90% of this project. We're all gonna take turns playing different arguing roles: I'm already signed up as Sega Historian #4, Classic Appreciator, CD Cynic and Generations Fanboy.

[HiroshiMishima]

Yeah, that there's going to be a looot of disagreements is just gonna end up being a thing for this. We're literally beginning to reflect the fanbase with just a dozen or so of us, just on a more passive tone right now.

[Whimsical Calamari]

Since Sonic CD came out in Japan first, that means we're getting the JP soundtrack, right? Get funky.

US soundtrack is superior tho

Pretty soon an entirely unresolvable argument was fully in progress.

it's 2009 youtube comments all over again

i think it's funny to see how KobaBeach's perspective on 3D sonic games is so different from my own. totally aware that that's just kind of The Way Sonic Games Are, but it's still super interesting to see how far that divergence goes:

i don't have much experience with either of the Adventure games. i had a genesis and a ps2, but never got a chance to get the dreamcast or gamecube, so they were always "those weird sonic games at my friend's house". still haven't played Adventure enough to have a full opinion even now that i have a dreamcast for real, but the speed stages in Adventure 2 feel like the proverbial spark to 06's dumpster fire. so many of the things that made 06 awful are so clearly foreshadowed in Adventure 2. slippery controls, questionable collision, race-track-over-a-bottomless-pit level design, camera, the story that i have Very Strong Opinions on, the sense that the developers are overextending to hell and back and getting no chance to polish anything - all are things that are tolerable (or in some cases, even likeable) in SA2 but get cranked up to 11 in 06.

as for Heroes:

It's one of those games I just can't defend

I'm going to fully agree with this statement. Sonic Heroes is a bad game, through and through. I'm also going to say, truly and without irony, that it's one of my favorite video games games of all time. the controls and quite a few of the scripted events are just as busted as SA2, with the extra jank provided by the idiosyncrasies of the core game's concept. the dialogue is pure and total cheese. the level design can get horrendously lazy (as in the Team Throw More Spikes In Dark variants) or downright obtuse (FUCKING Chaotix)

and yet...

to me, the inexplicable charm that almost all sonic media seems to possess feels stronger in Heroes than in anything else. it's probably the ceaseless optimism of the whole thing, the environments going absolutely hogwild, the atmosphere knowing exactly what it's doing at all times. and honestly, outside things like the pinball stages, the gameplay just feels really good to me. yes, it's jank. yes, it's a bad game. but i love it dearly.

(i also grew up with gran turismo, so i was always totally fine with the endurance aspect of the levels. it helps that they usually aren't just built out of identically repeated setpieces - it legit feels like you're going somewhere, which is a sense that i feel like a lot of platformers lack.)

i haven't played Shadow in a while, but i remember having a decent bit of fun with the gunplay element regardless. kid me had the same perspective as Koba here, what with "why are game brown now what's with this edginess" but my current perspective is more amusement at the way things turned out than anything else. yeah, it was a cynical attempt at trend-following, but they went so far into trying to match those trends, without understanding a thing about the context of the trends, that they unintentionally made the greatest possible parody of that era of gaming. nobody could do it better than mid-2000s sonic team, and mid-2000s sonic team didn't even try.

and as for Unleashed, PS360's day stages may be linear but they're also exhilarating. i've never seen anything capture "feeling of speed" so perfectly, save for maybe some videos i've seen of Redout. i haven't been able to clear Eggmanland thanks to my perfectionist complex, but i still love those boost stages. but then, Unleashed day stages are effectively a racing game, and racing games are pretty much my favorite thing, so. eh.

Generations is, in retrospect, just alright. the presentation is good, everything til the endgame is pretty good, rehashing of old levels back when it wasn't overdone in the series was good, but it's more fanservice than anything else. fantastic modding platform, though.

and then yeah, i haven't had a chance to play any 3D Sonics beyond that either.

[Zummorr]

Since it's non-negotiable. I'm going to voice my complaint here.

I don't think people have realized this yet. But because of the format choice, a significant chunk of the videos in the Sonics will be sub three minute boss fights.

In fact, about 20-25% of the videos will be solely dedicated to usually short boss fights. Just doing the good 2-D sonics would end up being over 270 videos. This assumes that special stages are counted as being in the same act of course.

SA2 would end up taking over a month of a half just for the main game. Not including the parenting simulator.

Since bosses are their own acts and hub worlds are their own acts We'll end up with videos where you start in the hub and enter the actual level leaving you with a 40 second video. SA1 will be absurdly bloated, like almost half the videos will just be short videos involving the hub.

The primary upshot of this video strategy is that it'd take around a year of videos to get to Sonic 06, By that time I'm fairly certain that the Xenia Emulator will have the game working better than the original nonsense.

[Whimsical Calamari]

now THAT is how you end a video. well played

[Crow]

secretly a real-lifecore episode of rad mobile

rip raocow

[Heavy Sigh]

Fun Sonic Facts!

Rad Mobile is indeed the first ever appearance of Sonic The Hedgehog, and is also the first game made with Sega's System 32 Arcade Board. It also is one of the first racers to include police pursuit! If you manage to get caught, you’ll get pulled over and admonished by an officer, who’ll angrily pound on your car hood before letting you go. However, only for the first few levels. Later on, he'll instead take out his gun and put a few rounds through your windshield, a slightly harsh punishment for reckless driving. None of these will cause a “game over” though, it just sidelines your car for a few seconds. If you get the best ending, the cop explodes like a balloon, revealing a sexy race queen underneath.

[FPzero]

Thank you all for coming to All the Sonics, this is the end.

[Grounder]