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Re: JUMP 'n Half

Posted: 15 May 2019, 15:48
by Awoo
KobaBeach wrote:
Nimono wrote: "i saw you in the forest" when the level's about saws
Image

i didnt even realize that i thought it was just idol being vaguely ominous as she always is
You never...



Saw it coming,
Did you? nyoro~n

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 15 May 2019, 15:59
by Cyril
Those were some rad puzzle levels today tbh

Re: JUMP 'n Half

Posted: 15 May 2019, 17:24
by Voltgloss
Awoo wrote: You never...



Saw it coming,
Did you? nyoro~n
i see what you did there

am i doing this right

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 15 May 2019, 17:33
by Kilgamayan
I think sensible non-pun names that describe a level are preferable to silly names with no relation to anything whatsoever, but I also think that level names is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay far down the list of SMW Things Worth Getting Into a Tizzy About.

Regarding the vertical section of Spongeland, I would have to go back and rewatch the level, but I seem to recall that it always gives the player a breather space before they have to execute any series of difficult jumps. If a player has a chance to see everything coming plan, or if an offscreen obstacle is set up in such a way that a reasonable reflex/reaction based in the heat of the moment will get the player through, then the difficulty is fine even if it's really hard. Only when there are traps offscreen that are difficult/impossible to address without knowing about them in advance they're coming does the difficulty creep into the unfair BS area.

Today's puzzle levels were both super cool beans. I liked raoguy immediately forgetting that he accidentally knocked the shell into the block the goomba was sitting on and blaming it going wrong on the innocent kicker turtle in the first level.

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 15 May 2019, 18:55
by Implo
Nao wrote: I don't think puzzle levels were considered much when making these claims. They vary from easy to really difficult in both games, depending on the player's experience with specific mechanics, too. Most of them (atleast in JUMP1/2) are not very punishing though and the more difficult ones have movies in case you can't figure them out.
The hardest levels from JUMP included kaizo-like obstacles (Pixel Perfect) or a marathon with precision platforming (Depraved Stronghold), which I don't think anything in JUMP1/2 comes close to.
Let me explain. I'm aware that the switch level has resets and no time limit, so it should be more approachable. But it's not the case. You need to have big amount of precision that the hardest levels in JUMP had. And resets and no time limits means that you can get stuck on this level for eternity. If one level take me almost 1 hour with savestates, then for me it's indicator that this is very hard level. Similar amount of time took me exactly the hardest levels from JUMP. And I was forced to reload savestates a lot just like in this level. You know, not everybody has this good precision and understanding of the puzzles like raocow.

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 15 May 2019, 19:41
by Nao
Implo wrote:
Nao wrote: I don't think puzzle levels were considered much when making these claims. They vary from easy to really difficult in both games, depending on the player's experience with specific mechanics, too. Most of them (atleast in JUMP1/2) are not very punishing though and the more difficult ones have movies in case you can't figure them out.
The hardest levels from JUMP included kaizo-like obstacles (Pixel Perfect) or a marathon with precision platforming (Depraved Stronghold), which I don't think anything in JUMP1/2 comes close to.
Let me explain. I'm aware that the switch level has resets and no time limit, so it should be more approachable. But it's not the case. You need to have big amount of precision that the hardest levels in JUMP had. And resets and no time limits means that you can get stuck on this level for eternity. If one level take me almost 1 hour with savestates, then for me it's indicator that this is very hard level. Similar amount of time took me exactly the hardest levels from JUMP. And I was forced to reload savestates a lot just like in this level. You know, not everybody has this good precision and understanding of the puzzles like raocow.
Understanding of the puzzles is one thing. But having played this hack myself, I'm not sure where levels like the switch palace require any precision, especially comparing to lategame JUMP levels seems ridiculous to me. It's just puzzle solving, the execution itself is rather simple (if you do the right things). I also don't understand what you'd need savestates for in that level, they seem to achieve nothing?

If this took you as much time as the hardest levels in JUMP, maybe you're just bad at solving puzzles but fairly good at platforming? Which is fine of course, but I think you speak for a small minority of players there.

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 15 May 2019, 20:24
by Leet
Implo wrote: Seriously, I wonder why people are saying that JUMP HALF is easier than original? It doesn't feel that way for me.
because I was actually able to beat this game

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 15 May 2019, 20:41
by Piesonscreations
Petition to change all the "M"s in the forum to Ns.
(Once this petition is certified, it'll now be called a forun.)

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 15 May 2019, 22:24
by Sebby19
Demo will be called Deno then. I don't think that would fly.

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 15 May 2019, 22:46
by Mata Hari
I feel like there was another level recently that had an optional door... but I don't remember what was behind it for some reason... what was it again? Eh, maybe it doesn't matter

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 16 May 2019, 06:05
by Implo
Nao wrote: Understanding of the puzzles is one thing. But having played this hack myself, I'm not sure where levels like the switch palace require any precision, especially comparing to lategame JUMP levels seems ridiculous to me. It's just puzzle solving, the execution itself is rather simple (if you do the right things). I also don't understand what you'd need savestates for in that level, they seem to achieve nothing?

If this took you as much time as the hardest levels in JUMP, maybe you're just bad at solving puzzles but fairly good at platforming? Which is fine of course, but I think you speak for a small minority of players there.
Well, I agree with you that some puzzles for me may be hard to understand, but in this level was different story. While I understood most of the puzzles may be hard for me, in this level I understood their solution pretty fast. I just had huge problem with execution, because it requires high amount of precision. Like with next switch palace I had much less problem: it's more puzzling, but it requires less precision. For example hitting yellow block with shell while standing on hand tiles. I understood immediately what I need to do, but it took me 10 min to execute it. Or jumping over explosion tiles with shell. That was weirdly difficult. It's so easy to destroy shell. I used savestates, because all parts of the level requires high amount of precision and if I would play without savestates, it would took me few hours to beat this level. I'm not ready for that.

Also have in mind that for a person who uses savestates, punishments aren't a problem. The real problem is execution of the level. This level was just too precise for me to play legitly.

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 16 May 2019, 07:05
by Super Maks 64
I'm late to the discussion, but

The biggest problem with the Cave of the Moving Sponges for me is the lazy layer 2 scrolling code which has no acceleration/deceleration at all and doesn't move Mario or the sprites horizontally with it. This isn't really an issue in the first half, but it's really present in the second half where most of the jumps are made more awkward due to that. I don't mind the vertical scrolling however.
The worst part is the secret exit path which has even jankier layer 2 movement that doesn't even stop for a frame and the fact that it uses Pitchin Chucks with it doesn't help at all.

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 16 May 2019, 08:54
by Alice
Piesonscreations wrote: Petition to change all the "N"s in the forum to Ns.
(Once this petition is certified, it'll now be called a forun.)
But all the Ns are already Ns?

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 16 May 2019, 13:11
by Voltgloss
So why does Koopa Hiking Trail claim to have only one exit?

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 16 May 2019, 13:36
by Ryrir
Voltgloss wrote: So why does Koopa Hiking Trail claim to have only one exit?
It's a mistake that will be fixed in the eventual update.

Oh while I'm posting: The p-balloon in the cinema is supposed to be a lifefarm. Hover directly above the kicked shell and you'll rack up lives fairly fast.

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 16 May 2019, 13:58
by KobaBeach

Voltgloss wrote: So why does Koopa Hiking Trail claim to have only one exit?
mindgames

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 16 May 2019, 14:05
by Validon98
So I solved that puzzle in the cinema differently, and I am 99% certain I did it in a bit more unintended way (maybe? maybe), but there is a very small fraction of time where if you bring a shell into that pipe, you can quickly place it down right in front of the pipe, run forward, grab the mushroom and star, let the star run out, then hit myself with the shell. It's very tight and I ended up killing the shell with the star a lot, but it is possible.

I realize now that maybe I was being silly. Probably. Didn't think about getting the baby Yoshi down but I guess this just means there's an alternative, way harder than you'd think variation on solving this puzzle.

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 16 May 2019, 15:57
by FourteenthOrder
As of today raocow's now passed me, I need to get back to things

But that secret exit seemed really fun.

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 16 May 2019, 16:02
by General_Urist
Damn that bovine, killing oodles of innocent hikers! For real though, raocow's Koopa hopping was pretty great!

Bowser's Cinema seems quite an interesting thing. I hope we'll get to see some of the movies eventually!

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 16 May 2019, 19:49
by YelseyKing
I like how you take a star warp, and suddenly... FF7 music, yo.

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half 'n Half

Posted: 16 May 2019, 20:45
by Awoo
YelseyKing wrote: I like how you take a star warp, and suddenly... FF7 music, yo.
This guy are sick

Srsly though Cait Sith's theme really works well on SNES instrumentals. This whole hack's soundtrack is pretty amazing

Re: JUMP |(√(-1))/(√(-4))| - Half a junp is still a junp

Posted: 16 May 2019, 21:42
by Piesonscreations
Alice wrote: But all the Ns are already Ns?
This took me a bit to get, not gonna lie. :slow:

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half 'n Half

Posted: 16 May 2019, 21:53
by YelseyKing
Awoo wrote: Srsly though Cait Sith's theme really works well on SNES instrumentals. This whole hack's soundtrack is pretty amazing
It is indeed. SMW hack music has come a long way, it would seem.

Also, that's not the only FF7 song in today's video. That beach map uses the Costa Del Sol theme.

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 16 May 2019, 23:41
by Sebby19
Oh, oh! raocow, what does 8-bit Mario look like with a P-Balloon?

Re: JUMP sin(π/((3^2)-(3^1))) - Half a jump is still a jump

Posted: 17 May 2019, 00:48
by gbreeze
YelseyKing wrote:
Awoo wrote: Srsly though Cait Sith's theme really works well on SNES instrumentals. This whole hack's soundtrack is pretty amazing
It is indeed. SMW hack music has come a long way, it would seem.

Also, that's not the only FF7 song in today's video. That beach map uses the Costa Del Sol theme.
That's actually not correct. It's a completely different song, but there's no way of telling that from the vid today because he didn't stay on the map long enough.