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JUMP ½ - Half a jump is still a jump

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
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Rockythechao
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Rockythechao » 1 month ago

Not that I'm making any assumptions about how much my posts contributed to the escalation of things, but for what it's worth the first one wasn't in response to anything but the boss design itself on its own merits. I wasn't aware of the circumstances behind the boss nor was I being mindful of the surrounding discussion when I wrote it, and I'm extremely sorry for being insensitive and tone-deaf with both that post and the one after it :atsy:
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Re: JUMP mean(U(0,1)) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Implo » 1 month ago

freshtalk wrote:
Implo wrote: And the last thing. If you really wanted to protect creators from these comments, you shouldn't expose their names in the hack. Right now, a player can connect who's levels destroy him the most and make this kind of distasteful comments. So, partially it's yours fault.
That's utterly backwards. Someone saying a type of comment to someone else could be bad and you're saying that they should just remain anonymous? You could have just stopped at saying you didn't intend it that way, or that their statement at you wasn't accurate instead instead of somehow arguing that trying to point out another user's comment is distasteful is pointless in of itself.
It's not backwards. Many collabs doesn't show who created the certain level. And that's good, because in making comments players refer to level names instead to authors of these levels. And when you don't know who created what level, you can't connect who is the author that levels give you the most of the problems. That's what I meant.

And yes, I apologize if I offended anyone again. I'm gonna stop commenting this matter.

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby LunarRainbowShyGuy » 1 month ago

Just to throw in my two cents regarding current issues, I feel like it's worth noting that just whether someone likes/dislikes something and whether that thing is good or bad can be two very different things. (For instance, I like Mega Man X6, which many people say is a bad game, and I agree that it's pretty bad.) In a similar vein, I feel it's better to state things as an opinion (e.g. 'I don't like this') rather than as a fact (e.g. 'this is bad'), though I don't think anyone here has been calling this level outright bad.

Anyway, my first time through the second half of this level my route was Garderobe, Control Room, Family Room. I initially tried going through the Pottery Workshop, but as I said before I wasn't a fan of how where you go afterwards was random. I was fine with either room immediately after it (though I ended up with the Mudroom what feels like at least 90% of the time), but eventually I wanted to at least see what was on the left side of the final hub room, and I think I only got to go there once while going through the Pottery Workshop.

After I was done with the Pottery Workshop, I found the Industrial Furnace, but after maybe a dozen or so attempts I decided not to go that way. For one thing I was having trouble with the Chamber of Thorns, but I also don't really like fire spitting piranha plants. I feel like there often used to make the player wait, which I would be fine with if there was some kind of danger involved with waiting (for instance, if you were stuck on a small platform with a li'l sparky), but more often than not it feels like they're just making you wait for the sake of it, and when going through a level several times having to spend a bunch of time waiting can get rather draining.

After ruling out the other options, I was left with the Garderobe and Control Room. I initially had some trouble with these rooms, which is why I didn't go this way to begin with, but I eventually learned how to get through them fairly easily, and rather importantly, quickly. The Family Room wouldn't exactly be my first choice for a final room, but after taking a break from this level I forgot what was in that door, and when I went in there to remind myself I beat it on that attempt.

Since I feel like I've commented on most of the rooms in this half, I feel like I might as well finish things off. I liked the Mudroom, but as I said before, I wanted to see what was on the left side of the following hub room, and this room restricts you to the right side. I also liked the Moat, I just wish I got to play it more. I did well in the Battlements at first, but after seeing the piranha plants I decided to look for a different way to go (though the constant bouncing and the limited-time platforms make it more than just a pointless waiting game, and I might have gone back to this if things didn't work out elsewhere). I almost beat the Dining Room, though I didn't know it at the time, and while I probably could've beaten it I kind of wanted a change of pace, which is when I stopped going through the Pottery Workshop so I could check out the rooms on the left. The Eldritch Dungeon is the room I was planning on going through before I got lucky with the Family Room, but now that I've played it I feel like it's just a bit too long for my liking.

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Piesonscreations » 1 month ago

I feel like they should be called "THWHT" since that's symmetrical.
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Cyril » 1 month ago

begone, thwht
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Mandew » 1 month ago

hp thwompcraft
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Re: halfjump - Clean your Springs, especially the Hill Zone

Postby Awoo » 1 month ago

freshtalk wrote: I don't think the second half's collection is quite as strong altogether as the first, but I think the Mudroom is my favourite of these? It's going to sound silly, but finding out how to work-around the platforming where being able to jump normally would have made it simple kinda makes me feel like I did a smart thing in particular. It's weird, I know.
Awoo wrote: so, raocow played levels in a video game today
you sure made a post
Tried de-escalating, apparently I am not trained well enough in crisis management :ehh:
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Leet
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Leet » 1 month ago

No offense to you awoo but in all my time on the internet posts that are like "omg lets move on from this right now, talking about things is bad" are almost universally ineffective and standoffy and I wonder why nobody seems to notice this
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Grounder » 1 month ago

Astonishingly, some people don't want flame wars to start, and try to stamp out the matches.
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Leet » 1 month ago

Just talking about it normally instead of passive-aggressively vagueposting about it (and insinuating how much better you are for not getting involved, even as you get involved) is a lot more productive in steering the conversation. Just because morcel said something stupid and koba insulted me doesn't mean that we have to all shut up about anything serious, especially when it's often very on-topic (Yelsey's thought-out design criticisms, even though I don't fully agree with them, are certainly very reasoned.) Actually be a positive force.
Last edited by Leet on 05 Jun 2019, 00:55, edited 2 times in total.
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Grounder » 1 month ago

You know what, even if I disagree here, I do see where you're coming from on this one.
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby YelseyKing » 1 month ago

I apologize if any of my comments were deemed "flame-y" or anything. While I'm not going to back down on calling out certain "hard core" gamers (and even then, I'm not naming names) for snobbishly looking down on those less skilled/tolerant/patient/whatever and acting like they're the only gamers whose voices should be heard, I didn't really mean to start "drama".

I suppose at the end of the day, my stance on gaming difficulty can basically be summed up as "there are many ways to make an easy game harder for those who want the challenge, but there are precious few ways to make a *hard* game *easier* for those who want the experience, but don't want the sheer frustration".
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Arctangent » 1 month ago

Leet wrote: Just talking about it normally instead of passive-aggressively vagueposting about it (and insinuating how much better you are for not getting involved, even as you get involved) is a lot more productive in steering the conversation. Just because morcel said something stupid and koba insulted me doesn't mean that we have to all shut up about anything serious, especially when it's often very on-topic (Yelsey's thought-out design criticisms, even though I don't fully agree with them, are certainly very reasoned.) Actually be a positive force.
this is actually something that's bugged me in quite a few communities i've been in, most prominently ( or at least, most prominently in terms of recent memory ) being an artist's discord i joined not too long ago because a lot of people do it ... even when tensions aren't rising nor the subject is even that heavy

it's kinda just unfathomable to me, honestly. having mods put a hard stop to a convo is already a pretty poor way to resolve that kind of thing ( after all, it doesn't allow tensions to mellow out, like, at all ) and i don't really get the thought process of trying to evoke that kind of thing with no power behind it, neither tonally nor, like, actually being able to act on stopping the convo
this topic in general
something that came to mind when reading all of this, especially the tail end of it, is that there was a conversation i had with some other peeps in the doom community involving difficulty levels. for context: doom has five different difficulty levels, only two of which have any direct influence on the game's mechanics. the differences between the others are entirely determined by the maps themselves, as enemies and items can be filtered to not appear in certain difficulties. meaning that, when you load up a custom map, the actual meaning of each difficulty level depends on the author's own sense of what it should be, and there's a few bit of 'em that don't bother with 'em at all and make all but the two special difficulty levels identical

so with that out of the way, the conversation was musing about mapset design, with straight-up pulling an eosd and making certain ( non-secret, even ) maps inaccessible at lower difficulty levels. keep in mind that, like i said, you have to go out of your way to support different difficult levels to begin with - if you don't want to balance a map multiple times, you can just not do that. also, there's no way to modify level progression in either the vanilla executable or most source ports of it, so blocking off one map would involve blocking off every map afterwards, too. it was honestly just kinda bizarre, but from what bits i can remember it might've stemmed from genuine spite due to doom map subgenre drama, which is Very Much A Thing

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Re: JUMP mean(U(0,1)) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby HiroshiMishima » 1 month ago

Cyril wrote: Which boss is that? Even on first playthrough I don't remember any particular boss being an outlier in difficulty other than the final boss and one of the post-game bosses

Sorry this is like, literally one of my favorite games so maybe I'm biased but even still
Reasonably sure the boss was called Overgrowth. It's got like 3 phases. Yelsey picked up on it right away, too.
Nimono wrote:Eldritch Dungeon was cool at first with all the ThwowhTs (or are they pmomps? ah heck, let's just call them Thworms like raocow does!), but I feel like the Thworms at the end were starting to get a little ehhhhhhhhhhh. Placed in small, cramped spaces, you're expected to quickly dodge under them, and especially the door... I've really noticed that a lot in the level overall- the whole place is a marathon level, and a handful of rooms have no room for error at all starting halfway through them, throwing you all the way back to the start, or the midpoint if you collected it, if you make a mistake. I, personally, don't think that's really good design.
Oh man, I was pretty much cringing the entire time I watched raocow play that and Chamber of Thorns. The former was just "augh crumble blocks (which I don't like to begin with) and super tight jumps everywhere" and the latter was "oh this is co- oh shit that's a looot of spikes and they're getting faster" and then he ran into a couple issues with too many sprites causing platforms to not spawn sometimes.

Overall, no matter how good/bad I feel different rooms were, I can't escape the fact that.. yeah, it feels like a marathon level. This is something that myself and others have commented on, both here and on YouTube. Even raocow said the place was like a whole world's worth of levels. It's a huge technical achievement but just playing (or watching, I guess) takes it out of you after a while. I'd absolutely need a breather before even fighting Bowser when all is said and done.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm not trying to insult people, I'm just.. speaking from a player standpoint, a viewer standpoint, and a developer standpoint. I don't have anything published officially beyond a simple RPG Maker game on itch, but I've been dabbling for a long time and after 30 years of playing games you develop a good instinct for what does and doesn't work. In the end, my opinions are my own.

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby raocow » 1 month ago

loving how anytime anyone has anything to say at this point we gotta make some official declaration of intent with references

it's fine to let your opinion known y'all
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Sebby19 » 1 month ago

I don't have an opinion.

I'm just here to listen to raocow say silly things.
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Arctangent » 1 month ago

raocow wrote: loving how anytime anyone has anything to say at this point we gotta make some official declaration of intent with references

it's fine to let your opinion known y'all
this gets my wettest flatulence of approval

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby MonkeyShrapnel » 1 month ago

It’s fine to argue, shows that people care.

Just try not to do personal attacks on people. :partygator:
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Re: JUMP model 0.5 - putze deine uehr

Postby Awoo » 1 month ago

Leet wrote: No offense to you awoo but in all my time on the internet posts that are like "omg lets move on from this right now, talking about things is bad" are almost universally ineffective and standoffy and I wonder why nobody seems to notice this
None taken

It seems to work better in real life? Idk, maybe I'm losing my touch these days.
Sebby19 wrote: I don't have an opinion.

I'm just here to listen to raocow say silly things.
^ pretty much this
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby HiroshiMishima » 1 month ago

Sebby19 wrote: I'm just here to listen to raocow say silly things.
He's always a highlight of my day, never fails to make me laugh. I wish I'd kept up with his videos better over the last 8 years or so. On the other hand, at least there's a lot to binge on.

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Re: JUMP mean(U(0,1)) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Cyril » 1 month ago

HiroshiMishima wrote:
Cyril wrote: Which boss is that? Even on first playthrough I don't remember any particular boss being an outlier in difficulty other than the final boss and one of the post-game bosses

Sorry this is like, literally one of my favorite games so maybe I'm biased but even still
Reasonably sure the boss was called Overgrowth. It's got like 3 phases. Yelsey picked up on it right away, too.
oh overgrowth is pretty tough yeah but i found it fun to learn

tho yeah i guess it was reasonably harder than any of the bosses before it but i found bosses after it just as challenging or even moreso so, i dunno
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Sebby19 » 1 month ago

Looks like the secret path is gonna lead to 3 castles in a row.
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Validon98 » 1 month ago

It's time for world 8, AKA "a world of contrasts," starting with a less than great level. Like I dunno, I'm not really the biggest fan of "you have to avoid power-ups" in what's effectively a no-hit run. That is what closed off one of the paths to me in the first JUMP (I couldn't get through Keep a Positive Altitude, at all), though I managed it here after too many attempts. This kind of sets a tone for the rest of world 8, unfortunately.

I'm glad at least the secret exit path can be cheesed with the crucifix, the movie itself is kinda unclear on what you're supposed to be doing in order to retain spin-jump on balloon, and it's a trick I know I haven't heard of, so well, at least the free hit exists for that.
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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Mata Hari » 1 month ago

There have been multiple levels thus far where you've had to use a larval horse as a blunt instrument. Demo would never deign to just kick the block, she'd rather save her toes by hitting it with an infant.

Does Demo even have toes?

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Re: JUMP mode(0.5,1/2,2/4,3/6,1,2/1,4/2,6/3) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby LunarRainbowShyGuy » 1 month ago

I liked this level a lot, though it might once again be one of those things I'm good at considering I've seen some people mention they had a hard time here, and even raocow had some difficulty here. Maybe it helps that I have a tiny bit of experience with avoiding powerups (in Super Mario Maker I made a level that involves dodging raccoon leaves from SMB3). Regardless, I definitely enjoyed having an easy time in a level after playing two difficult marathon levels at the end of world seven.

I initially got to the secret exit path here the same way that raocow did, but then I felt bad about it and went back to do it the intended way. Or at least what I thought was the intended way, but I watched the movie afterwards, and that wasn't how I did it either. My strategy was to delay getting all the balloons enough so that I could skip the last balloon and have enough time to get to where the shell is before the balloon wore off, allowing me to just do an ordinary spin jump to get rid of it.


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