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JUMP ½ - Half a jump is still a jump

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Re: JUMP ABS(-0.5) - Jumping Jillikers

Postby Awoo » 5 months ago

Mata Hari wrote: red water kills you btw
Could use a little bit of a head's up about that since it's so late into the 2nd half without much/any warning :ehh:
Other than that neat gimmick
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Implo » 5 months ago

The final level is quite tough, it's also quite hard to navigate - you pretty much need to replay this whole level at least few times to get into every door. And that's quite annoying. I wonder why they decided to overcomplicate the routes in this castle.

Also for the most of this hack I'm not a fan of SnoruntPyro levels. They require very fast action in short amount of time and that's my weakness. Red Switch Palace and today section and also bunch of other levels were especially tough for me. It goes to that, that whenever I see SnoruntPyro name of person creating level, I get scared. Because his/her levels destroy me the most.

As for Final Boss - why there is no checkpoints. In original Jump there were checkpoints during Final Boss and I know that the bullet hell patterns were much more crazier and fight was longer. But I'm bad in Touhou stuff and I would really prefer having checkpoints. Last for is just hectic and it's easy to get hit.

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Rockythechao » 5 months ago

Being somewhat of a boss design enthusiast I wish I could approach this fight from a more hands-on perspective, same as how I wish I could've first experienced the JUMP postgame boss as a player.

As just a spectator, that Bowser fight does leave an overwhelming first impression and it reminded me of a complaint I've heard about Cuphead (which I also haven't gotten around to playing myself yet) having too many moving parts to easily keep track of in some fights. raocow's solution of focusing on the player character and their surroundings is also an important thing in Touhou games (played IN, read about general strategies and stuff) and added to that whole "sensory overload projectile spam" feel. In the end rao did demonstrate that the fight has a very learnable pattern, but I still feel those megaspikes don't have strong enough contrast against the floor; while raocow noticed them, I could see them catching other players by surprise and feeling like a cheap hit. Again, though, really wish I'd played through the game to gauge this directly myself instead of just seeing it through the :rao: lens.

With all of that said, I think ol' bugspray-allergic CLIMAX is still my favorite boss in this series from the sheer scope and spectacle of that fight and the creative attacks that made for a more varied platforming gauntlet, but I'm looking forward to seeing if there's any upcoming postgame boss to top these two fights.
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby HiroshiMishima » 5 months ago

I'm very conflicted on Bowser's Castle. On one hand, it's technically and visually very impressive. Multiple branching paths, a variety of gameplay gimmicks, a retry system, and so forth. On the other, though, it's also extremely long and can get really tedious after a while. Having to replay several areas just because you need to redo one near the middle or end of a section feels extremely punishing and leads to frustration and impatience. Some, like red water/wind, just feel so unenjoyable that I'd rather just waste time/lives trying to go a different direction instead.

The Bowser fight itself was really amazing, I thought it was so neat! However, as some others have mentioned.. I'm not great at Touhou. Nor do I like how much damage YOU take versus how much Bowser takes. My anxiety is so ramped up by the last couple hits it feels practically impossible for me to play competently anymore, but I realize that's not the game's fault. Still, it does make the fight feel.. kinda bad towards the end.

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Cyril » 5 months ago

really upset you didn't play as demo so we could all ship demo x peach at the end
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Arctangent » 5 months ago

it's pretty funky that i got top billing in the level design credits

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Sebby19 » 5 months ago

Cyril wrote: really upset you didn't play as demo so we could all ship demo x peach at the end
but peach didn't kiss anyone this time.
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby LunarRainbowShyGuy » 5 months ago

I thought this level was alright, though I do have some problems with it. I normally don't like lengthy levels like this (probably not a surprise considering the previous level is my least favourite level in the game), but the difference here is that you get to choose between multiple different rooms, so if one is too difficult or something you can always go to another room (I personally switched paths multiple times just to get a change of pace). Though this is where I have an issue with this level; there are places where it seems like the level is trying its hardest to not let you choose freely. The worst case of this is the pot room, where it's completely random where you go next, and although I like the pot room I eventually stopped going there because of that.

It took me awhile to get through this level (though for the most part I did enjoy it), but the boss definitely made it worthwhile. I don't think I can put into words how much I loved this boss. I did think it was a bit easy (it only took me 3 or 4 tries), but I guess I might just be good at this kind of thing (I do play Touhou games on easy mode). I appreciate having a health bar here, as I feel like only having two hits would have been pretty rough, and I definitely would've taken many more attempts without it. Having a health bar gives room for mistakes, as well as giving more of a chance to learn Bowser's attacks upon reaching a new phase of the fight. Also, just to give an idea of how much I enjoyed this fight: I normally wouldn't play through this level again, but I'm considering doing so just to fight this boss again.

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby gbreeze » 5 months ago

So the reason why the pot room leads you to 2 completely random rooms is because that path is actually a bit easier than the lolyoshi bro room path. We figured that rng would be a good exchange for an easier path. You take the bro path, you have a harder time but at least you know what you're doing. With the pots room, it's an easier time but the tradeoff is that it's random for which room you get.

You'll likely find out tomorrow but if you haven't already, the
pot room unrandomizes at the end once you beat the level the first time. This makes cleanup easier.

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Piesonscreations » 5 months ago

Lazy_ wrote: That bug where you instantly die upon entering the zen garden room has never happened before. It'll be fixed in the eventual update.

Also, I hope everyone appreciates that Bowser boss because worldpeace had an absolutely terrible time making it.
Of course if anyone would get a never before seen bug it would be raocow lol

Also, the boss was super impressive to watch, so on that front, worldpeace did an amazing job with it! Sucks he felt that way about making it tho...
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Leet » 5 months ago

Pot room was pretty annoying for me, but it is short at least, yeah.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Cyril » 5 months ago

Sebby19 wrote:
Cyril wrote: really upset you didn't play as demo so we could all ship demo x peach at the end
but peach didn't kiss anyone this time.
she respects demo's personal space
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still an awful pun

Postby Awoo » 5 months ago

Leet wrote: Pot room was pretty annoying for me, but it is short at least, yeah.
Boon has a little pot every now and then nyoro~n
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby KobaBeach » 5 months ago

Cyril wrote:
Sebby19 wrote:
Cyril wrote: really upset you didn't play as demo so we could all ship demo x peach at the end
but peach didn't kiss anyone this time.
she respects demo's personal space
you dont have to do pdas all the time to be a lesbian
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Mea » 5 months ago

That magikoopa sublevel by Miraclewater was really wonderful! That was my favourite. The custom camera work gives the one-room challenge idea so much more of an organic flow than using pipes or doors to separate the 'rooms'. It wasn't just that, of course, the setup themselves seemed really fun, and being able to see where the magic was before triggering them seemed very player-friendly.

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby KobaBeach » 5 months ago

as usual, i liked lolyoshi and lazy's rooms, but miraclewater's kamek themed room is pretty good too.

mellon and blue leaf's stages felt a bit filler/western hack esque, a very stark contrast from the jp and korean hack esque vibes of the rest. then again, inconsistent quality is key to securing VIP Quality

i'm gonna be Controversial and say using the retry patch just to skip the death animation and placing you right at the start/midpoint of the level anyway is a dick move. i'd personally make it so that you get an artificial checkpoint each time you make it past a section (basically set you back to the last junction you got to), that in turn, gets cleared once you exit the level.

the combination of the massive damage you get in comparison to the damage bowser gets, the cooldown for the shell gun and the sheer amount of things keeping you from standing still for more than 1 femtosecond (gabyoall, bullets) is honestly kind of mean, considering jump half is meant to be more "casual friendly". climax looked fairer and less of a chore to fight.

i appreciate the effort that went into it but at the end of the day i'd much rather have a julius or a tanasinn. call it shit taste if you want, you don't have to agree with me

gbreeze wrote: Clarification: worldpeace nearly quit hacking after making the boss. He had lots of fun working on everything else except this because he didn't enjoy the lack of freedom when working with bowser and not with any sort of boss.
that's a shame, I'd just rather see worldpeace's vision instead

gbreeze wrote: I think this boss was a fantastic fight. I don't care what you think of the level itself but the boss fight was an incredible time, and I'd like to hear your opinion once you actually play it as well to see if it's changed.
you can just say that you "agree to disagree" without having to completely dismiss nimono's opinion on the basis that "he hasn't played it yet"

like i'm watching it and i'm honestly feeling overwhelmed from all the bullshit in a platforming context, it does not look like something i'd have fun playing

gbreeze wrote:The roombas were interesting cause they added an extra layer to the fight beyond dodging, they way they were presented made you have to develop a sort of strategy rather than just dodging bullet hell. I think juxtaposing those two elements was a smart move, even if it can be frusturating. The bullet hell insanity at the end is crazy but it's the insanity that makes it feel so epic for being the very final phase of the boss.
Super Maks 64 wrote: Also the Bowser fight was incredibly punishing originally, the shells that you fired actually obeyed gravity (I think that this was perfectly fine and didn't need a change) and you only had 3 health (I kind of agree with this change even if beating the original version felt like an achievement).
that just sounds annoying

this all really comes off as circlejerking over being good at video games, which is a pretty lousy attitude to have if you're going for a more accessible game (dont @ me)
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby HiroshiMishima » 5 months ago

I'm glad we're seeing comments on both side of the river here, even seeing things I agree with on both. Koba definitely makes some good points, though, as does LunarRainbow. Considering the rest of the ROMhack, the last two levels definitely came off as sharp increase in difficulty.

Don't feel bad, Lunar, I usually play Touhou on Easy, too. Sometimes I even use Cheat Engine, in the case of a dick move like Embodiment of Scarlet Devil's "easy mode mockery" shenanigans. I pretty much just wanna enjoy the music, read the dialogue, and witness the patterns without any of the craziness, but that's nearly impossible to do since everyone skips dialogue on YouTube. Plus it's just more fun to do it myself.

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Leet » 5 months ago

I struggled a lot more than raocow but I think these levels were fun to struggle with; that's just my taste in mario, and I definitely got frustrated in the moment, but I kind of enjoy spending 50+ tries on the final challenges, which I did.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby KobaBeach » 5 months ago

HiroshiMishima wrote: Don't feel bad, Lunar, I usually play Touhou on Easy, too. Sometimes I even use Cheat Engine, in the case of a dick move like Embodiment of Scarlet Devil's "easy mode mockery" shenanigans. I pretty much just wanna enjoy the music, read the dialogue, and witness the patterns without any of the craziness, but that's nearly impossible to do since everyone skips dialogue on YouTube. Plus it's just more fun to do it myself.
Leet wrote: I struggled a lot more than raocow but I think these levels were fun to struggle with; that's just my taste in mario, and I definitely got frustrated in the moment, but I kind of enjoy spending 50+ tries on the final challenges, which I did.
These are both entirely valid honestly

I personally enjoy Hard Mode Touhou but I suck at it (I'm not that good at shmups for the most part)
I enjoy the VIPs and their ilk for the feel they have when playing them, which is why I'm so attracted to Lazy and lolyoshi's stages

Like someone I met on twitter because of my bad posts on the mice thread was like "When VIP5 was good it was really fucking good, but when it was bad it was really fucking bad like the World 6 R ghost house and most of World 7" over discord and honestly I was kind of like "i had absolutely no problem with most of those stages???????" so my tastes are kind of questionable

Like I legit find Melancholia and ENDURANCE pretty hilarious.

There's just something in the science of VIP's level design that feels good to play if you're up to the challenge, imo, but that doesn't really cater to everyone's tastes

also, on retrospect
KobaBeach wrote: mellon and blue leaf's stages felt a bit filler/western hack esque, a very stark contrast from the jp and korean hack esque vibes of the rest. then again, inconsistent quality is key to securing VIP Quality
this is hella fucking rude of me to say. i'm sorry orz
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Sebby19 » 5 months ago

raocow, you didn't do the secret exit for room 7! Maybe that path leads to a feather!
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Leet » 5 months ago

Just fyi you do not need to bring feathers from outside the level, nor do you need to bring a feather through multiple rooms or anything - To put it another way, you should be able to access all rooms through natural playing
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

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Postby Validon98 » 5 months ago

I mean, also power-ups are filtered out from the castle. Surprised this wasn't noticed, but there's no way to bring a cape from outside the level. It even turns the free mushroom power-up off.
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby morsel/morceau » 5 months ago

KobaBeach wrote: you can just say that you "agree to disagree" without having to completely dismiss nimono's opinion on the basis that "he hasn't played it yet"
Challenging an opinion is not dismissing it. Though, having said this, I would never begin to agree that what raocow's mouth spews out when he's playing games is a good basis for forming an opinion of anything.
gbreeze wrote: Clarification: worldpeace nearly quit hacking after making the boss. He had lots of fun working on everything else except this because he didn't enjoy the lack of freedom when working with bowser and not with any sort of boss.
that's a shame, I'd just rather see worldpeace's vision instead
It was not so much that he had to make Bowser, but that he was starting with no ideas. He had already made the bosses he wanted to make. I assume he took it on because he'd put lots of work into the project and wanted to see it properly finished. No one else was dedicated, competent or imaginative enough to see it through. And, speaking for myself, I think he made a techncally and visually impressive boss that was also original in its challenges and, most importantly, fun to play. This in spite of his personal troubles and his plummeting motivation to hack smw at all (perhaps because people are going to dismiss your work with 'it looks hard' or ' vip 5 was better'). This really could be the last thing he ever does in hacking. It's nice to see him getting such a generous and sympathetic send-off.
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Nimono » 5 months ago

morsel/morceau wrote:
KobaBeach wrote: you can just say that you "agree to disagree" without having to completely dismiss nimono's opinion on the basis that "he hasn't played it yet"
Challenging an opinion is not dismissing it. Though, having said this, I would never begin to agree that what raocow's mouth spews out when he's playing games is a good basis for forming an opinion of anything.
i really hope you two don't get into a fight over me :( like, i appreciate you trying to defend me, koba, but please don't go too far on it, okay? I've never liked people defending me when I have the capability to myself.

I DON'T think gbreeze was MEANING to dismiss my opinion. As they said: They thought the fight was very climactic and fitting. So of course, on seeing it again, you'd expect them to get re-hyped over it! When you're hyped and excited, all you want to do is share the joy you had with others- I'm guilty of that, too! I disagree with the roombas adding to the battle in a good way, and I disagree with the idea that the firespam insanity was a good thing (spam typically isn't in this kind of game), but I respect that this was gbreeze's opinion. I won't fight them over it.
Last edited by Nimono on 03 Jun 2019, 15:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JUMP mean(U(0,1)) - Spring cleaning? Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Postby Implo » 5 months ago

SnoruntPyro section from today was pretty OK, but the gimmick was badly explained. It took me 5 rooms to realize that Mario randomly going up isn't based on any timer, but instead because enemies are triggering arrows. It could be better explained.

As for the map, the first time I played I thought map will act like warp zone. Unfortunately I still needed to redo the paths I did earlier few times. Also I would prefer information on the map how to exit it. Yes, there is info how to open map, but when I focused on reading the names of sections, I completely forgot how I opened map and was forced to reset the game.

Also it would be faster for raocow to continue the path he started after beating new sections instead of dying and starting from the beginning and redo everything. But this is his choice.


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