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JUMP ½ - Half a jump is still a jump

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FourteenthOrder
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby FourteenthOrder » 1 month ago

I loved this level.
It also gave me 2 game overs, starting from 99 lives each time.
I am not a good player. ^^;
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The Doctor
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby The Doctor » 1 month ago

YelseyKing wrote: I do suppose there's a matter of skill involved; raocow and many others here have been playing hard hacks for years, whereas I have not. But I really don't get why it's viewed as such a heinous crime to enjoy a game in your own way if it differs from "the norm". Like, seriously. Who is it hurting? Me? I don't care. I'm not out to be a video game master. I'm just out to have fun, and if "cheating" makes a game more fun to me, then I see no problems with it.
Dude, no one cares how you play video games. You're projecting.

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ano0maly
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby ano0maly » 1 month ago

I watched the level and it didn't seem that bad? The only thing I can see is that maybe it goes on for too long, but there was nothing in particular that popped out as "this is getting into ridiculous difficulty".
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gbreeze
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby gbreeze » 1 month ago

YelseyKing wrote: Man... it's levels like this one that make me realize the world of difference between myself and most of this community regarding video game difficulty. Maybe it's the fact that I suffer from anger issues, and have since I was a kid, but man, I cannot see this level as "good". Like, well designed for what it's trying to do? Yeah, of course. But would I have fun with this level as-is? Not really. There's a *lot* to redo if you die, and so very, very many ways *to* die.

I've been playing Jumphalf myself lately... and for the most part, I'm enjoying it, and trying to play it as "legit" as I can... But there are times I just... can't. Honestly, as much as I wish I did, I just don't get that feeling of exhilaration and satisfaction when I beat a level like this that a lot of people here do... I just feel drained, and like my "winning run" depended more on luck than skill. I'm not *bad* at platformers... I just lack a lot of the patience to want to redo a bunch of stuff that many people here have. Honestly, it makes me feel *very* self-conscious, because as much as I'd like to believe otherwise, there do seem to be at least a few people here of the "YOU CHEATED NOT ONLY THE GAME, BUT YOURSELF!" mentality regarding emulator tools.

I do suppose there's a matter of skill involved; raocow and many others here have been playing hard hacks for years, whereas I have not. But I really don't get why it's viewed as such a heinous crime to enjoy a game in your own way if it differs from "the norm". Like, seriously. Who is it hurting? Me? I don't care. I'm not out to be a video game master. I'm just out to have fun, and if "cheating" makes a game more fun to me, then I see no problems with it.

For the record, I'm not really out to change anyone's minds. If you enjoy and get something out of playing hard games, that's awesome. Go for it. I'm not trying to stop you or shame you or anything. I just wish that less skilled/patient gamers like myself wouldn't get so much shit for "doing it wrong".
The intro message in the beginning of the hack about using tools is really just a silly joke. You can use savestates, no one minds. If So Sadistic would be better for you using savestates, go for it.

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Arctangent
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Arctangent » 1 month ago

The Doctor wrote: Dude, no one cares how you play video games. You're projecting.
utterly incorrect

the "you cheated not only the game but yourself" meme was not written ironically in the slightest, and while i personally mostly saw it being used to mock the types of people who'd say such a thing after it became a meme, it also was spread by those who completely bought it

i don't know how you would've gone your entire life without encountering the rampant toxicity with the gaming community as a whole that leeches into many of its subcommunities, but if you somehow have, then trying tell someone that something many people here have encountered repeatedly in their lives just makes you look daft

but then again i guess if that wasn't the case and you are fully aware that people harass others for how they play games, then this becomes a lot worse than just "daft," so, uh

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Re: JUMP farthing - Half a jump is...

Postby Awoo » 1 month ago

FourteenthOrder wrote: I loved this level.
It also gave me 2 game overs, starting from 99 lives each time.
I am not a good player. ^^;
don't give up!
you can do it!
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Leet
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Leet » 1 month ago

Arctangent wrote:
The Doctor wrote: Dude, no one cares how you play video games. You're projecting.
words
The context is on the talkhaus, though. I don't think anybody cares on the talkhaus.
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Sturg » 1 month ago

The amount of composure you had for that entire magic shooting room was really impressive. Man, I won't lie I would struggle so hard in that last stretch.

I loved watching this level being played, although I'd probably hate it if I tried to play through it haha
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YelseyKing
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby YelseyKing » 1 month ago

Sturg wrote: I loved watching this level being played, although I'd probably hate it if I tried to play through it haha
*thumbs up*

Jumphalf as a whole is great, make no mistake, but there are a handful of levels that definitely fall firmly into "more fun to watch than to play" for me. :P
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The Doctor
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby The Doctor » 1 month ago

Leet wrote:
Arctangent wrote:
The Doctor wrote: Dude, no one cares how you play video games. You're projecting.
words
The context is on the talkhaus, though. I don't think anybody cares on the talkhaus.
Yeah, I just meant on the talkhaus. Gamers have a pretty shitty reputation and that's mostly deserved, but we're a friendly bunch here. Play the games however you want and just have fun. No one here is looking down on you because your skills aren't up to par with raocow's. You don't have to feel bad or justify your use of savestates to anyone.

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Awoo
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Re: JUMP (numbers) - (words)

Postby Awoo » 1 month ago

The Doctor wrote: Yeah, I just meant on the talkhaus. Gamers have a pretty shitty reputation and that's mostly deserved, but we're a friendly bunch here. Play the games however you want and just have fun. No one here is looking down on you because your skills aren't up to par with raocow's. You don't have to feel bad or justify your use of savestates to anyone.
Don't feel bad if you use savestates, if it gives you enjoyment and allows you to have fun, there's absolutely no shame in it! Games should be fun and you should be having fun while playing :rao:
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HiroshiMishima
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby HiroshiMishima » 1 month ago

I actually did see a couple people seemingly talking down to lower skilled players at certain points this year, and it's what put off my finally making an account for a while longer. I've a really low opinion of people who think like that and it left me really bitter and .. I just didn't want that to be the kind of mood I was in when I joined after many years of lurking. I also periodically see it on the video comments, and I never know who is and isn't a member here when I'm there unless I recognize a name.

It made me happy to see Yelsey and Arctangent arguing *against* that sort of toxic mentality. I, personally, was rather poor at a lot of video games when I was a kid in the 80s. Atari and Commodore notwithstanding, since they're quite simple, but NES certainly saw me struggle. It was actually getting a Game Genie that changed how I looked at video games forever. I was suddenly free to explore levels, see how enemies/bosses behaved without constantly being in fear of dying or running out of time. It gave me the freedom I really wanted in video games to begin with. The skills I have today were formed and fostered through a solid decade of mostly cheating with Game Genies, Game Sharks, and Code Breakers.

I do, admittedly, still throw myself at some games like a watermelon at brick wall, but usually it's cause I'm sure I can do it. If, however, I can't.. there's always a net to fall back on (for PCs anyways). I'd rather be able to beat a game than feel some flimsy sense of "accomplishment" over a lame challenge. I paid for the game, I wanna see it through to the end. Getting 100% on Mario Odyssey felt great... most of the time. The times where it didn't, I hated every second of it.

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Alice
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Alice » 1 month ago

Mata Hari wrote: Feel like a lot of people who tell themselves they're gonna play without savestates end up eating shit
That sounds like a terrible choice of meals.
YelseyKing wrote: Honestly, it makes me feel *very* self-conscious, because as much as I'd like to believe otherwise, there do seem to be at least a few people here of the "YOU CHEATED NOT ONLY THE GAME, BUT YOURSELF!" mentality regarding emulator tools.
The point of games is to have fun so if using emulator tools improves the fun you're having then there's really no issue. Anyone who has a problem with the way you play a singleplayer game is just trying to enforce their own views on you so they can just be disregarded.

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freshtalk
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Re: JUMP φ/(1+(√5)) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby freshtalk » 1 month ago

I don't know why you're so worried about cleanup when at the very beginning, you yourself implied there were systems in play to allow playing the rooms at your leisure. Unless you were going to imply something completely different before never finishing your sentence.

General_Urist
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby General_Urist » 1 month ago

Hey hey hey I thought All The Megamen was supposed to be over weeks ago!

Seriously though, that was an intense Bowser fight.

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Sebby19
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Sebby19 » 1 month ago

raocow uses a metered connection? What is this, the 90s?

Do you have dial-up internet too?
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Lazy_
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Lazy_ » 1 month ago

That bug where you instantly die upon entering the zen garden room has never happened before. It'll be fixed in the eventual update.

Also, I hope everyone appreciates that Bowser boss because worldpeace had an absolutely terrible time making it.
is there an integer overflow when you become 256 years old

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Nimono
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Nimono » 1 month ago

Lazy_ wrote: That bug where you instantly die upon entering the zen garden room has never happened before. It'll be fixed in the eventual update.

Also, I hope everyone appreciates that Bowser boss because worldpeace had an absolutely terrible time making it.
I...uhhh...

Honestly, I feel like it could've done without those mega man floor roombas and the extreme fire spam at the end... ^^; I know that's the typical kind of "oh man climactic boss battle!" the VIPs are known for, too, but... I dunno, it just doesn't seem like fun at all?

Honestly, all of Bowser's Castle seems extremely punishing, even with the reset-without-losing-lives thing. Throwing your face at a wall until you break through isn't very fun design!

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Lazy_
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Lazy_ » 1 month ago

I had fun with the fight
is there an integer overflow when you become 256 years old

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Validon98
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Validon98 » 1 month ago

If there's anything I can say about Bowser's Castle, it's that I'm not a fan of having the in-between door sections be kinda rude. I don't really like having to jump through hoops just to be able to get to the meat of the level, but that's just me I guess? I dunno, I'm mainly thinking of the midpoint room, having to do that every time to do the second half of the castle, which in and of itself is way harder than the first half, is just kind of a kick in the teeth. I ended up save stating after getting to the platforms.

The boss fight itself was such a breath of fresh air after that second half though, maan that was fun. Feels like what a custom ASM boss kind of thing should be, rather than a Carol-esque "better wait forever to get something to hit the boss with." Kinda funny, since if I recall correctly, the final boss here used a different remix of the same music used for the Julius fight in VIP 5, right?

Quick two-cents on the save-states thing, I do want to play this game as legitimately as possible, but at the same time, I've been using tools when I feel like the game is wasting my time or being ridiculous (though I have been somewhat tricked into attempting some things legitimately past the point of being done with something). Execution-based puzzles, obstacles you have to repeat to the point of being easily perfected, extremely rude sections, things like that. I managed So Sadistic, it's Mischievous legit (after multiple days of going at it, and again by being convinced to do it legit), but definitely not Bowser's Castle. That second half is the definition of "too much," especially some of the rooms we might not have seen today.
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The Doctor
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby The Doctor » 1 month ago

I save scummed like a madman during the puzzle levels and I wasn't averse to using save states during a gimmick level that just didn't work for me. So Sadistic and Bowser's I did legit though because I was having way too much fun on those levels to want them to end.

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Leet
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Leet » 1 month ago

I 100%'d toolless. That may sound like bragging but raocow is clearly having a far easier time than I did, so I don't actually feel that skilled. But I don't regret it at all.
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

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Super Maks 64
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Super Maks 64 » 1 month ago

I had fun with Bowser's Castle, even if it took me 7 hours total and includes the "4 hours spent doing the pot room" (although I was contacted by the architect of the castle before release to do something so it wasn't fully blind)

Also the Bowser fight was incredibly punishing originally, the shells that you fired actually obeyed gravity (I think that this was perfectly fine and didn't need a change) and you only had 3 health (I kind of agree with this change even if beating the original version felt like an achievement).


Since people seem to be talking about this
I 100%'d the game toolless, switchless (except for the 4 exits), upgradeless and movieless and I don't think that's a big deal.

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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby gbreeze » 1 month ago

Clarification: worldpeace nearly quit hacking after making the boss. He had lots of fun working on everything else except this because he didn't enjoy the lack of freedom when working with bowser and not with any sort of boss.

So the pots room, I'll provide some dev commentary.
Iso returned one triumphant day and started helping us out with the project. I was wanting to make a room that was truly different each time you played it. This was from me possibly misunderstanding and maybe overthinking one of lolyoshi's wishes that bowser's castle be more organic and fun to play multiple times". So we went through great lengths to redesign many rooms and scrap many of them that were too mechanical or puzzle-platformy. I still wanted to make a room that was totally random, but creating a randomly generated level would be way too complicated. So I was talking to Iso and we discussed whether the pot sprite could be edited so that it creates a totally random enemy from a set of enemies and decided it would be a good idea. Iso made all of the ASM for the pots and did an amazing job, and I went ahead and made the room itself. The level itself ended up being controversial, some liked it and some didn't :catplanet: but before we finally released the hack, this room was heavily nerfed.
Nimono wrote:
Lazy_ wrote: That bug where you instantly die upon entering the zen garden room has never happened before. It'll be fixed in the eventual update.

Also, I hope everyone appreciates that Bowser boss because worldpeace had an absolutely terrible time making it.
I...uhhh...

Honestly, I feel like it could've done without those mega man floor roombas and the extreme fire spam at the end... ^^; I know that's the typical kind of "oh man climactic boss battle!" the VIPs are known for, too, but... I dunno, it just doesn't seem like fun at all?

Honestly, all of Bowser's Castle seems extremely punishing, even with the reset-without-losing-lives thing. Throwing your face at a wall until you break through isn't very fun design!
I think this boss was a fantastic fight. I don't care what you think of the level itself but the boss fight was an incredible time, and I'd like to hear your opinion once you actually play it as well to see if it's changed. The roombas were interesting cause they added an extra layer to the fight beyond dodging, they way they were presented made you have to develop a sort of strategy rather than just dodging bullet hell. I think juxtaposing those two elements was a smart move, even if it can be frusturating. The bullet hell insanity at the end is crazy but it's the insanity that makes it feel so epic for being the very final phase of the boss.

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Mata Hari
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Re: JUMP logₑ(√(-1))/((√(-1))*π) - Half a jump is still a jump

Postby Mata Hari » 1 month ago

red water kills you btw


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