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SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
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KobaBeach
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

the hell platforms are hilarious because i remember tattletale getting his hands on some japanese version of it, that i suspect was this one, and the code was a hot mess like i'm pretty sure they took the allstars code for it and just transfixed it to smw

they did replace the graphics with the beads of the anal bead springs tho

he was looking at it to figure out how to code one himself for his collab hack to also later edit and make dumb nonsense with for people to use, he kept referring to it (the hell platform) as being coded with "arcane magic"

a lot of mikeyk's old sample sprites that came with spritetool (the first ones ever made) also had a ton of code taken from all-stars, i believe? alongside some reused bits of vanilla smw code (often used pretty poorly, like this was the infancy of smw hacking so i'll cut mikey some slack) so if you're wondering how easy it is to port stuff from allstars to smw, the answer is: eh, kinda? i wouldn't recommend using nintycode as a guide for studying good coding practices

the true question is: what happens when you port stuff from other non-mario games into smw tho? preferrably no additional chips. when i was still friends with vivi he was like "oh brutal mario is easy just debug other snes games and disassemble the code you wanna use" so... (thinking emoji)

truly, programming is like magic

sorry, ever since i first ran into sonic hacks, and later on brutal mario (which has some pretty galaxy brain programming (not in the good sense)), programming is just something that fascinates me
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Voltgloss »

So, on the Hell platforms that seem to tilt only to the left... if Mario jumps and lands on the right side without having tilted the platform at all, could he just stand there on the right side forever, without it tilting at all?
Last edited by Voltgloss 5 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by churine »

Voltgloss wrote: 5 years ago So, on the Hell platforms that seem to tilt only to the left... if Mario jumps and lands on the right side without having titled the platform at all, could he just stand there on the right side forever, without it tilting at all?
it wouldn't surprise me if you landed to the right of an untilted platform it still tilted to the left anyways
it actually looked like raocow did land in the middle-right for a moment and that's what happened for an instant even but i can't find the timestamp
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

The block thing is purely because of how Lunar Magic is coded :)

Lunar Magic is a garbage program made by garbage people and one of the many brilliant ideas FuSoYa had was make it so that the top corners of the custom blocks act different from the actual top. This was never implemented outside of his CLOSED SOURCE (DON'T STEAL MY CODE YOU GUYS!!!!!!!) custom blocks until 1.64 which came after 5 fucking years of radio silence because WOOPS people are using Lunar Magic and he just refuses, flat out refuses, to reveal its source code (or code any feature that requires effort for that matter).

As a result, BlockTool had this glaring mistake for ages, and Lunar Magic never supported Japanese translations because it requires too much effort on FuSoYa's end (fuck you non-English speakers), so everyone in Japan just used 1.63 because it had an unofficial translation patch. So yeah, the Japanese were rather fucked by virtue of no one caring for anyone outside of English speakers in the SMW community.

Long story short, it sucks dick but it's not wagokoro's fault.
Lack of support for Japanese is also likely why there's no Japanese community anymore, just btw.

Thank FuSoYa for the scene barely progressing ever.
That ~square levels wow~ thing that got added in LM 3.00, that was all Vitor Vilela, FuSoYa did squat outside of just supporting it.

FuSoYa is a worthless hack and the fact that he's not seen as anything but a leech for keeping Lunar Magic and its ASM hacks a black box is both astounding and disappointing.

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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Leet »

The koopa was just not playing smw very well on his end
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by morsel/morceau »

I am fairly sure that the kicking koopa was inconsistent in itself and was not able to be influenced by player actions. The interesting thing is that no matter if he falls off the ledge with the shell or not, you can still make progress, you just have to do different things. Therefore that part is a sort of random obstacle. Was this on purpose? Is it good?
In an aside, the VIP4 and VIp 5 equivalents of this level were icy, so this had to be icy, clearly. nyoro~n
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Grounder »

calm down, koba, wow

even if it was meant to be a joke, it didn't read like one to me
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Arctangent »

Christopher Lloyd wrote: 5 years ago calm down, koba, wow

even if it was meant to be a joke, it didn't read like one to me
i have great doubts that it's a joke, nor that it's at all unjustified
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

it's not, fusoya legitimately pisses me off and i have most likely developed a stress disorder from my time spent dealing with people at smwcentral and sneslab

at one point i ragequit smw hacking because my time at sneslab devolved into everyone shouting the f*gg*t slur because i told them saying slurs is not a good thing and smwcentral's admins trying to cut down on that shit is actually a good thing

to say i dont want to go anywhere near smwc people is an understatement

im sorry
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by freshtalk »

Hope there aren't too many unfortunate technical hiccups going forward. Those always tend to feel worse than just poor design, to me at least.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Ashan »

Has fusoya ever given a reason as to why LM isn't open-sourced? It's a very strange decision, because as far as I know, there's literally zero benefit for him since he's not monetizing it, and it just makes things harder for other devs who want to build tools compatible with it. It seems like such a no-brainer for a tool that is specifically meant to be used by a hacking community.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by warpio »

raocow, please don't be so defensive about having to resort to savestates. It's not worth letting the stress of an unreasonably difficult level take years off your life just for the sake of accomplishment.

maybe it's because you're thinking in the back of your mind "I've been through worse", and you're hard on yourself because it feels like you're skipping out on a challenge that you KNOW you have the ability to conquer? If that's the case, I would suggest changing your line of thinking to be more about the overall enjoyment-to-stress ratio, and thinking more along the lines of "I'm not getting worse at videogames, I'm getting better at choosing what I spend my time with for maximum enjoyment."
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Ashan »

morsel/morceau wrote: 5 years ago I am fairly sure that the kicking koopa was inconsistent in itself and was not able to be influenced by player actions. The interesting thing is that no matter if he falls off the ledge with the shell or not, you can still make progress, you just have to do different things. Therefore that part is a sort of random obstacle. Was this on purpose? Is it good?
I wonder if it was consistent on whatever emulator the dev was targeting, similar to those platforms TEoM did a big writeup on a couple pages ago
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

Ashan wrote: Has fusoya ever given a reason as to why LM isn't open-sourced? It's a very strange decision, because as far as I know, there's literally zero benefit for him since he's not monetizing it, and it just makes things harder for other devs who want to build tools compatible with it. It seems like such a no-brainer for a tool that is specifically meant to be used by a hacking community.
as much as im aware he doesnt want his code stolen, nevermind the fact he's altering a commercial game

i have like half the mind to just disassemble lm's asm hacks with shex or some shit and distribute them that's how petty i am
i might just snap one day and end up doing it just to spite smwc
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Arctangent »

Ashan wrote: 5 years ago Has fusoya ever given a reason as to why LM isn't open-sourced? It's a very strange decision, because as far as I know, there's literally zero benefit for him since he's not monetizing it, and it just makes things harder for other devs who want to build tools compatible with it. It seems like such a no-brainer for a tool that is specifically meant to be used by a hacking community.
emphasis mine because something has to be understood here:

this isn't remotely a strange decision to anyone who has a lot of experience with programmers. especially programmers of hobby projects, and especially older hobby projects

there's this seemingly crippling sense of entitlement that's distressingly common among this type, where their little project is their baby that nobody else can touch, no matter how much weight it has in a community. there was maybe a slightly justified fear of someone taking the code without attribution back in the days of only hosting the source code on your website, but? nowadays we have stuff like github and bitbucket that not only makes it really easy for people to track down the original code back to the original project, but also makes it a billion times easier to make variants of a program that can still be linked back to the original one

heck, it lets people continue to develop the program without even making variations, if either you put in the effort into accepting pull requests or give someone you trust the power to do it for you. it would be entirely possible for fuso to set up a git repo on one of the various sites that do that for him ( for free, i might add ) and have the programmers of the smw hacking community maintain his program for him through a method he could always keep an eye on

but, of course, it's his baby, so regardless of the impact of making it open source would have on the community, only he's allowed to develop it. even though he doesn't anymore. and that's final
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by ano0maly »

Ashan wrote: 5 years ago Has fusoya ever given a reason as to why LM isn't open-sourced?
Probably the same reason why redigit hasn't made SMBX open-sourced

This is why the SMBX 2.0 development to this day largely depends on an external hack attached on top of the closed box of the original SMBX.

Also - the discussion on this page about how it's FuSoYa's fault and not wagokoro's fault is odd contrast in tone to what Mandew said here.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by BobisOnlyBob »

I'm fine with splitting the difference. Bad toolchain limits options, but they're still options. There were alternative ways to achieve the same or similar gameplay experience without depending on questionable blocks, but also the hack was always pretty damn kaizo so the corner offset problem was likely disregarded as the player suffering (even for BS reasons) is part of the intended design space. But there was no option to use as-is with the fix, based on my understanding of the tools available to wa.

I won't deny I laughed hard when Mario went right through the diagonal blocks. It's incredibly shitty for poor raocow, but as an audience member that's entertainment I can't get most anywhere else. I'm sorry I delight in your suffering raocow, but know your time is never wasted, no matter how bad it gets, because of terrible people like me!
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by ft029 »

Like the switch palace, this level is straight up kaizo.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

tahts so kaizo
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Ashan »

But there wasn't a single chain chomp
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Lockirby2 »

Man, I still need to work on my dying yak noises.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Voltgloss »

Lockirby2 wrote: 5 years ago dying yak noises
public service announcement: don't Google this
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Sebby19 »

Oddly... specific.
I don't think anyone was going to. But now you unfortunately got me curious.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

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