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SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

I forget if it ever does anything rude with the ! blocks outside of just using them the way VIP does (occasionally hindrance, occasionally help) but you do need them all to finish the game and reach the credits, just beating the final castle won't be enough.

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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

tags
: )

Chocolate Cast1e (yes, Cast1e) is really funny because the name of the stage is チョコレートキャッスノレ which, when read directly, is Chocolate "Kyassunore", but if you're not an idiot like me, you'll realize that the ノレ is just a weird leetspeak-esque way of typing ル (ru). I completely missed this the first time and thought the level was called Chocolate Cassenole

Hitboxes are a weird thing with SMW because from what I can gather, of what I know of ASM and how SMW works, they're basically constructed from 8x8 blocks and 16x16 blocks and that's why stuff with tiny, specific hitboxes, like carol's bosses, have the graphics be the BG or Layer 2 or Mode 7 and the hitbox be the main sprite itself. IIRC this is what Mega Man 1-6 also did with the larger bosses: Yellow Devil, etc.

Maks is better at knowing how SMW works, so he should probably explain this better and more accurately than I can.

Heads up, don't one more level after doing 6-1, it's an especially stupid level (at least for me and lolyoshi it was)

This is what happens when you take the shortcut btw, credits to Ryrir
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Ryrir wrote:the message box is missing a chaining in this version. it basically goes "but because you cheated by going over the ceiling, have an additional phanto on the house!"
He used an old version because you can't move Mario's starting position in the OW in the recent version or w/e
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Sebby19 »

That water level is now the Ur Example of raocow dieing at the end.

I slowed down the video when raocow beat the castle, he just phased right through the small Phanto. What?
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by BobisOnlyBob »

KobaBeach wrote: 5 years ago This is what happens when you take the shortcut btw, credits to Ryrir
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Ryrir wrote:the message box is missing a chaining in this version. it basically goes "but because you cheated by going over the ceiling, have an additional phanto on the house!"
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

im so glad

im so glad someone posted that

im so glad that's the first reply my post got im legit crying right now
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by freshtalk »

Sometimes it's good to just go for a nice swim
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Arctangent »

KobaBeach wrote: 5 years ago Hitboxes are a weird thing with SMW because from what I can gather, of what I know of ASM and how SMW works, they're basically constructed from 8x8 blocks and 16x16 blocks
I have literally never touched SMW's ASM in my life, but based on my knowledge of video games and my experiences playing through SMW, I don't think that's quite right. The sprites are composed of 8x8 or 16x16 blocks, but it seems like the hitboxes can be any size, and in fact most SMW enemies aren't even 16x16 - they seem to be closer to 14x14 or so, even in cases of koopas and ... maybe unsquashed rexes? ( I seriously don't remember if they physically squish or if it's purely visual ) where they're visually two 16x16 tiles high.

Which is something that a lot of Mario fangames and even custom SMW enemies seem to miss: Nintendo doesn't often use the "full" hitbox of a sprite, but rather make it smaller as to be more forgiving ( and, with larger circular sprites like grinders and balls and chains, make it so that Mario won't be hurt by thin air ) and to make it so that they can move around a bit even in 1-block tunnels and pits. It's always something that really bugged me with SMBX, because it's obvious that redigit didn't give enemies this "forgiveness" buffer and consequently you get hit a lot more often than it feels like you should ( though I think that's also because jumping on enemies doesn't "cheat" the same way it does on SMW, which is always perfectly illustrated by the fact that you jump on enemies even in 1-block high tunnels ). It's especially bad with koopas, what with their taller sprites that never meant a taller hitbox in their source games but whoops suddenly now it does.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by MonkeyShrapnel »

Arctangent wrote: 5 years ago
KobaBeach wrote: 5 years ago Hitboxes are a weird thing with SMW because from what I can gather, of what I know of ASM and how SMW works, they're basically constructed from 8x8 blocks and 16x16 blocks
I have literally never touched SMW's ASM in my life, but based on my knowledge of video games and my experiences playing through SMW, I don't think that's quite right. The sprites are composed of 8x8 or 16x16 blocks, but it seems like the hitboxes can be any size, and in fact most SMW enemies aren't even 16x16 - they seem to be closer to 14x14 or so, even in cases of koopas and ... maybe unsquashed rexes? ( I seriously don't remember if they physically squish or if it's purely visual ) where they're visually two 16x16 tiles high.

Which is something that a lot of Mario fangames and even custom SMW enemies seem to miss: Nintendo doesn't often use the "full" hitbox of a sprite, but rather make it smaller as to be more forgiving ( and, with larger circular sprites like grinders and balls and chains, make it so that Mario won't be hurt by thin air ) and to make it so that they can move around a bit even in 1-block tunnels and pits. It's always something that really bugged me with SMBX, because it's obvious that redigit didn't give enemies this "forgiveness" buffer and consequently you get hit a lot more often than it feels like you should ( though I think that's also because jumping on enemies doesn't "cheat" the same way it does on SMW, which is always perfectly illustrated by the fact that you jump on enemies even in 1-block high tunnels ). It's especially bad with koopas, what with their taller sprites that never meant a taller hitbox in their source games but whoops suddenly now it does.
At least it's really easy to change hitboxes in SMBX
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

Arctangent wrote: 5 years ago Words
told you i wasn't the most knowledgeable at smw, or at least have the best memory

Anyway I checked and it turns out I forgot that SMW has a few (64) different combinations of hitboxes for sprite/sprite and sprite/Mario interaction. The koopas, shell-less and "shell-ful", use a hitbox that is slightly smaller than the graphic to fit with the actual graphic itself.

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The blue box represents the 16x16 graphic drawn as the enemy's sprite. The red dots are the corners of the actual hitbox.

Arctangent wrote: 5 years ago in fact most SMW enemies aren't even 16x16 - they seem to be closer to 14x14 or so
Unless you mean by technicality, SMW can only draw combinations of 8x8 or 16x16 tiles actually

MonkeyShrapnel wrote: At least it's really easy to change hitboxes in SMBX
The fact that you have to change the standard hitboxes in the first place is not a positive
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Arctangent »

KobaBeach wrote: 5 years ago
Arctangent wrote: 5 years ago in fact most SMW enemies aren't even 16x16 - they seem to be closer to 14x14 or so
Unless you mean by technicality, SMW can only draw combinations of 8x8 or 16x16 tiles actually
I meant in terms of hitbox size, not sprite size.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

Ah. Yeah, that depends, a lot of hitboxes are of different widths. Again there's like 64 of them.

Here's a zip file detailing pics of the various hitboxes and a txt file listing the respective hitboxes of each sprite value.
For a list of what corresponds to what, try here.

Why the fuck these aren't documented better, well, it's SMWC, no one cares about ASM :)
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by CrappyBlueLuigi »

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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Ashan »

If you hold shift Mario will go into focus mode where he moves slower and you can see his hitbox
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

by one more levelling i mean lava cave

have fun doing that today/tomorrow :)

in other words "no not lava cave i am not going there"
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Kilgamayan »

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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Dragon Fogel »

"That looks impossible", then makes it in one try.

Of course, if there had been an incredibly simple jump between there and the goal, raocow would have somehow managed to fail it, then spent at least twenty lives trying to get back.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by ft029 »

that rugby bro jump gave me hell.

Also: good luck on the green switch.....
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

It's really not just you. You're allowed to have a negative opinion on something, your opinions are valid.

Like I get that this is "your job", but games should be played for fun.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by ft029 »

So the mouse-hole and the turn block bridge are the silliest obstacles in the green switch. I still don't know how to do the turn block bridge part consistently, so I've given up.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Lockirby2 »

The second mouse-hole doesn't look too bad since the land formation allows you to line the jump up pretty easily. But the first one looks brutal.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by KobaBeach »

this is the point of the game where it just got kaizo. this is the worst stage of the game honestly

no offense to wa_, of course
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Sebby19 »

So what would've happened if you couldn't get help with the level? Abandon the LP? Would disabling the lava layer work?
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Veruchai »

Is is kaizo if you literally don't understand/see what to do?
I suppose it is; you learn by dying and need knowledge of game mechanic specifics to solve it.
From a design perspective it is a well crafted level probably. With how everything fits together and such.

In the end it was pretty much a puzzle level that kills you if you don't solve the path to take.
Probably typical in how it seems way easier for the designer because they already know exactly what to do.
I mean, most of that problematic shell path was literally invisible because of the lava.
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Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Post by Grounder »

looked like riding the shell from the low ceiling on was an option
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