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La-Mulana - Wishbringer

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
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Draexzhan
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Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Postby Draexzhan » 7 months ago

I feel like someone ought to compile a list of things raocow noticed in editing, because I'm almost positive today's floor switch will be part of that list. I know the Gate of Time is on there and I want to say there's at least one other thing so far, and I know there will be more to come.

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Cyril
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Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Postby Cyril » 7 months ago

the endless corridor, in particular the numbers puzzle, is one of those things i expect raocow to really have troubles with, so

looking forward to tomorrow, i guess?

i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Postby Sebby19 » 7 months ago

Draexzhan wrote:

I feel like someone ought to compile a list of things raocow noticed in editing, because I'm almost positive today's floor switch will be part of that list. I know the Gate of Time is on there and I want to say there's at least one other thing so far, and I know there will be more to come.

Voltgloss has been taking care of note-taking since the beginning. He's got this covered.

Still though, where's Shorn?

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Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Postby Voltgloss » 7 months ago

Zummorr wrote: Solving this puzzle doesn't really generate feelings of "Oh it makes sense now!" Pretty much everybody just remarks "That was stupid."
It's like that schoolyard A Room With No Windows riddle.
It's fine to have an opinion about a puzzle being bad (I have such opinions myself about a couple of other puzzles in the game), but I don't think you (or anyone) can extrapolate that to "pretty much everybody" having the same view. I've seen multiple comments by others applauding this puzzle. Some calling it their favorite in the game. I personally don't think it's stupid. raocow himself appreciated the puzzle after the fact. So, y'know, opinions. They vary.

Zummorr wrote: Question regarding an item

The Anchor that raocow decided to skip. I forget, it is required to navigate the Tower of the Goddess pipe system? iirc it has a current that flows upward? [Insert Sarcasm about the usefulness of the Anchor]

Not having the anchor will complicate progress there, yes. I can't speak to whether the Anchor is absolutely required as similar damage boosting shenanigans might see him through there as well. I've never tried myself.



Sebby19 wrote:

Still though, where's Shorn?

I believe he doesn't start appearing until after the fifth Guardian is defeated.

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Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Postby Zummorr » 7 months ago

Voltgloss wrote:
Zummorr wrote: Solving this puzzle doesn't really generate feelings of "Oh it makes sense now!" Pretty much everybody just remarks "That was stupid."
It's like that schoolyard A Room With No Windows riddle.
It's fine to have an opinion about a puzzle being bad (I have such opinions myself about a couple of other puzzles in the game), but I don't think you (or anyone) can extrapolate that to "pretty much everybody" having the same view. I've seen multiple comments by others applauding this puzzle. Some calling it their favorite in the game. I personally don't think it's stupid. raocow himself appreciated the puzzle after the fact. So, y'know, opinions. They vary.
Bleh. You're dinging me for making a sweeping statement fallacy.
You're probably not intending it, but you're coming off really patronizing. As if I don't understand that other opinions exist.

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Voltgloss
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Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Postby Voltgloss » 7 months ago

Zummorr wrote:
Voltgloss wrote:
Zummorr wrote: Solving this puzzle doesn't really generate feelings of "Oh it makes sense now!" Pretty much everybody just remarks "That was stupid."
It's like that schoolyard A Room With No Windows riddle.
It's fine to have an opinion about a puzzle being bad (I have such opinions myself about a couple of other puzzles in the game), but I don't think you (or anyone) can extrapolate that to "pretty much everybody" having the same view. I've seen multiple comments by others applauding this puzzle. Some calling it their favorite in the game. I personally don't think it's stupid. raocow himself appreciated the puzzle after the fact. So, y'know, opinions. They vary.
Bleh. You're dinging me for making a sweeping statement fallacy.
You're probably not intending it, but you're coming off really patronizing. As if I don't understand that other opinions exist.
You're right, I'm not trying to be patronizing. I was only trying to note the sweeping statement fallacy as politely as possible. I guess I wasn't polite enough; I apologize.

Separately, I don't think I've heard the A Room With No Windows riddle. Or at least not by that name. Would you mind sharing it? I'm legit curious. Thanks.
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Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Postby Grounder » 7 months ago

Voltgloss wrote: You're right, I'm not trying to be patronizing. I was only trying to note the sweeping statement fallacy as politely as possible. I guess I wasn't polite enough; I apologize.

Separately, I don't think I've heard the A Room With No Windows riddle. Or at least not by that name. Would you mind sharing it? I'm legit curious. Thanks.
You are in a room with no windows, doors or any exit. The only items are a mirror and a table. How do you escape?

Look in the mirror, then at the wall and back at the mirror to see what you saw. Use the saw to cut the table in half and join the two halves to make a whole. Put the “hole” on the wall and climb out.

Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Postby ZephyrBurst » 7 months ago

I remember that dumb riddle from grade school. The LM puzzle in question is a bit silly, but no comparison to the leaps you have to make for that schoolyard one.

This episode displayed that raocow's weakness is

slightly elevated pixels a mere two tiles to the left.


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Voltgloss
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Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Postby Voltgloss » 7 months ago

Christopher Lloyd wrote: You are in a room with no windows, doors or any exit. The only items are a mirror and a table. How do you escape?

Look in the mirror, then at the wall and back at the mirror to see what you saw. Use the saw to cut the table in half and join the two halves to make a whole. Put the “hole” on the wall and climb out.

OK, yeah, I agree with those who have a low opinion of that riddle. I was thinking "maybe it's an igloo and you have to somehow get sunlight inside to melt your way out using the mirror" but no, that's not where it goes at all.

Here's a riddle that's somehow stuck with me for years. I don't think it's as bad as the room one, but I accept that it's probably on the "bad" end of the spectrum nevertheless:

"A man without eyes
Saw plums on a tree.
He neither took plums nor left plums.
How could this be?"

Answer:
The man had exactly one eye (and so was "without eyes" because he did not have multiple eyes). The tree had exactly two plums. He took exactly one plum and left exactly one plum.

To paraphrase Daffy Duck: "Plural trouble."
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Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Postby Ditocoaf » 7 months ago

That'd be a clever riddle if

plurals

worked that way, but they don't, so instead it's just a riddle that's only solvable by deliberately misusing language, so yeah I'd put it in exactly the same category as the "room with no windows" one.

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Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Postby Bluster Kerfuffle » 7 months ago

Christopher Lloyd wrote: You are in a room with no windows, doors or any exit. The only items are a mirror and a table. How do you escape?

Look in the mirror, then at the wall and back at the mirror to see what you saw. Use the saw to cut the table in half and join the two halves to make a whole. Put the “hole” on the wall and climb out.

See I've read Umineko so I was gonna ask "but does it have a ceiling"

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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Cyril » 7 months ago

@raocow - you are not allowed to ask for the solution to the gate puzzle. I'm going to request nobody answers this as raocow needs to figure it out for himself.

Note: haven't watched the vid yet but I am almost certain I know which puzzle is being referred to here :P
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Voltgloss
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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Voltgloss » 7 months ago

Parama wrote: @raocow - you are not allowed to ask for the solution to the gate puzzle. I'm going to request nobody answers this as raocow needs to figure it out for himself.

Note: haven't watched the vid yet but I am almost certain I know which puzzle is being referred to here :P
I hear you. Proposition: might it be best just to say the quoted sentence in the following (spoiler-covered for now):

Edited to retract the proposition.
Last edited by Voltgloss on 18 Apr 2019, 22:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby repairmanman » 7 months ago

It's time to post the you learned nothing gif again
IIRC, you could actually end up missing the hints for this from mulbruk. it's still solvable by going from 0-9, but I dunno if raocow is going to learn lamulanese

after second part: d'oh he missed the shortcut
Nothing to see here

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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Sebby19 » 7 months ago

The gate puzzle was significantly changed between the old and new versions. In the original, the hint to the solution was in the manual, but you wouldn't know it was a hint since it presented itself as a piece of trivia.
The remake's manual doesn't contain this hint anymore, or the trivia fact.

But yeah, I hope you can figure out what those symbols on the gates mean/are. The game wont tell you, you'll have to be observant and figure it out yourself!
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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Grounder » 7 months ago

an actual keyblade

i was just joking about how weird the key looked the last time i didnt think there was something close to a real one
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby AweStriker » 7 months ago

Parama wrote: @raocow - you are not allowed to ask for the solution to the gate puzzle. I'm going to request nobody answers this as raocow needs to figure it out for himself.

Note: haven't watched the vid yet but I am almost certain I know which puzzle is being referred to here :P
This is referring to the Endless Corridor Floor 2 puzzle, correct?

If so, as usual youtube comments have already done it. Good thing he's not reading those.

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Cyril
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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Cyril » 7 months ago

Again, I still think those should be disabled but raocow isn't reading them anyways
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Draexzhan
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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Draexzhan » 7 months ago

Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish. Thou art foolish.

This message was brought to you by the Endless Corridor.


Man, raocow's brute-forcing game is powerful today.
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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby FPzero » 7 months ago

In reference to the gate puzzle (not the solution, future spoilers):
Aside from the final piece of the puzzle for the Mace where you need to know Lemeza's weight, is there any other part of the game that relies on him knowing La-Mulanese numbering? Because I figured this was the stumbling block that'd make him realize it, forgetting his tendency to brute force stuff until it works.

Considering this is the puzzle that's supposed to make you realize the glyphs are numbers, I feel like I disagree with Parama in not wanting to tell or hint to raocow what he's missing about it the puzzle. He's asking for a hint for once, and if this is critical knowledge he was supposed to know already, I don't see why it would hurt to give a slight hint that might push him in the right direction.

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Draexzhan
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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Draexzhan » 7 months ago

TBH since those gates are glyphs it doesn't make a lot of sense in-lore as to why Lemeza can't translate them when he scans them.

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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Cyril » 7 months ago

FPzero wrote: In reference to the gate puzzle (not the solution, future spoilers):
Aside from the final piece of the puzzle for the Mace where you need to know Lemeza's weight, is there any other part of the game that relies on him knowing La-Mulanese numbering? Because I figured this was the stumbling block that'd make him realize it, forgetting his tendency to brute force stuff until it works.

Considering this is the puzzle that's supposed to make you realize the glyphs are numbers, I feel like I disagree with Parama in not wanting to tell or hint to raocow what he's missing about it the puzzle. He's asking for a hint for once, and if this is critical knowledge he was supposed to know already, I don't see why it would hurt to give a slight hint that might push him in the right direction.
nah we're going the pure blind route let him figure it out or suffer not knowing the solution for eternity :rao:
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Zummorr » 7 months ago

FPzero wrote: In reference to the gate puzzle (not the solution, future spoilers):
Aside from the final piece of the puzzle for the Mace where you need to know Lemeza's weight, is there any other part of the game that relies on him knowing La-Mulanese numbering? Because I figured this was the stumbling block that'd make him realize it, forgetting his tendency to brute force stuff until it works.

Considering this is the puzzle that's supposed to make you realize the glyphs are numbers, I feel like I disagree with Parama in not wanting to tell or hint to raocow what he's missing about it the puzzle. He's asking for a hint for once, and if this is critical knowledge he was supposed to know already, I don't see why it would hurt to give a slight hint that might push him in the right direction.
To answer your question
I was about to ask that myself. I don't think any other puzzles force the player to translate la-mulanese, outside of Balancing the Scales of Virtue. But if raocow brute forces that I'm calling shenanigans. Thinking on this puzzle. I thought it was more complicated than it was. Spoilering the solution here.
I think that only the gates 2, 3, 5 and 9 are involved with the puzzle everything else is irrelevant. While you have no way to confirm it, if you head to the right and then enter 2nd gate before 3rd you can enter enter every single other gate going from left to right and it will solve the puzzle.the 9th gate is tucked away it what seems like a natural endpoint anyways.

Each time raocow attempted the puzzle he looked like he tried to enter every single gate. As long as you just pick 2 before 3 you can safely touch every single gate from that point onwards, provided you don't go straight down to 9. It's alot more vulnerable to brute force than I thought.

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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby FPzero » 7 months ago

Parama wrote:
FPzero wrote: In reference to the gate puzzle (not the solution, future spoilers):
Aside from the final piece of the puzzle for the Mace where you need to know Lemeza's weight, is there any other part of the game that relies on him knowing La-Mulanese numbering? Because I figured this was the stumbling block that'd make him realize it, forgetting his tendency to brute force stuff until it works.

Considering this is the puzzle that's supposed to make you realize the glyphs are numbers, I feel like I disagree with Parama in not wanting to tell or hint to raocow what he's missing about it the puzzle. He's asking for a hint for once, and if this is critical knowledge he was supposed to know already, I don't see why it would hurt to give a slight hint that might push him in the right direction.
nah we're going the pure blind route let him figure it out or suffer not knowing the solution for eternity :rao:
I just don't really agree with this sentiment considering the blind run is raocow's choice and if he wants a hint then that's his decision to make. Plus, it can just be put into a spoiler box with the warning "hey this is a hint for the thing you asked about" so he can later decide if he wants to read it or not.

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Re: La-Mulana - Endless, Nameless

Postby Ditocoaf » 7 months ago

I mean, it's an easy thing to let raocow decide. This is what I think is best spoiler practice:

Hey raocow, here's what's apparently going on in that gate puzzle. Not the solution, or even the exact way to find it, but the general idea (which is still a mental step you might-or-might-not want to make on your own):
The glyphs on those gates are indeed meant to be numbers, and you needed to find a way to learn their translations.
And just an y/n answer to the question, "Could I solve that puzzle without finding more items or places than I have so far?"
Yes you could solve it now.


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