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Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 22:13
by Draexzhan
Well he solved the "bended knee" puzzle by accident, but at least he figured out what it meant after the fact.

He cleared a rather large chunk of the Gate of Illusion today. I'm actually pretty impressed, even if he kind of brute forced a lot of it.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 22:29
by BobisOnlyBob
This is no average foolishness. This is... Advanced Foolishness.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 22:57
by Validon98
Today's episode was crazy enough for me to actually post here for a change again. So, someone mentioned in this chat earlier that there was a guy who played this game who managed to brute force translate the ancient La-Mulanese. I watched that playthrough, and he got stuck on bended knee for uh. I'd say about 2-3 months (with a 2 hour session every week, so about 8-12 sessions).

raocow gets to bended knee and solves it on accident within two daily sessions.

I can't even. I literally cannot even.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 23:13
by Griflion
glances into the episode
You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 23:23
by Voltgloss
Well done, raocow. Well done.


Griflion wrote: words
needs more line breaks

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 23:29
by Chirei
Griflion wrote: glances into the episode
You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.
Chirei wrote: Image

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 23:30
by Griflion
Chirei wrote:
Griflion wrote: glances into the episode
You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.
Chirei wrote: Image
perfect

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 23:37
by raocow
remember these three words kids

down
read
nothing

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 23:53
by Sebby19
The part with the Pepper was the one that I needed to look up a guide for. But it looks like rao won't need to bother now, haha.

Those ghostly blue virgins had also appeared in the beginning parts of Confusion Gate. Once yesterday when rao entered from the Graveyard, and again today while navigating normally.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 00:16
by Chirei
WONDER OF THE WONDER

Image

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 00:45
by kitikami
I'm going to boycott this LP if the game doesn't let you put pepper up Xelpud's nose.

Chirei wrote: WONDER OF THE WONDER

[CAT PLANET]
^^^
This is wonderful.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 01:04
by Sebby19
kitikami wrote: I'm going to boycott this LP if the game doesn't let you put pepper up Xelpud's nose.
I think there is supposed to be a mechanic where if you get a new item, immediately go to Xelpud and he'll talk about.

The lady who sells weights in the village also has a funny reaction if you decide to cancel mid-purchase.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 01:43
by Cyril
i'm floored at how much progress was made today

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 02:15
by Filby
BobisOnlyBob wrote: This is no average foolishness. This is... Advanced Foolishness.
This is Shakespearean Foolishness.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 03:58
by Zummorr
So the maze of illusion puzzle that was solved today is basically the most infamous la-mulana puzzle. Solving it gives the steam achievement "The Penitent man" As if they're apologizing for it.

This is the puzzle that forced me to break open the guide. The solution is to "take a knee" in a game where archeologists cannot crouch.
At that point I don't think I solved "Power lies at the Foot of Futo" Or if I did I didn't remember it. So pressing down with no indication was never on my mind in the puzzle.

Opinon: This puzzle is

imo the epitome of la mulana's bad puzzles, in that the puzzles' hints only makes sense after they have been solved.



Gate of Illusion puzzles:

Are there any hints for Gate of Illusion puzzles outside of the Gate of Illusion? I don't think there are any tablets outside the gate that involve it? But there are puzzles in the Gate of Illusion that involve using the outside world. Most puzzles so far have been region specific and usually didn't involve traversing between areas to solve them.



Comments on today's episode:

Seriously? raocow just unintentionally sequence broke the anchor puzzle? Oh well. Atleast tomorrow we can see raocow fight La mulana's worst, or second worst mini-boss. Cow versus Cow combat!


Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 07:52
by AweStriker
Zummorr wrote: So the maze of illusion puzzle that was solved today is basically the most infamous la-mulana puzzle. Solving it gives the steam achievement "The Penitent man" As if they're apologizing for it.

This is the puzzle that forced me to break open the guide. The solution is to "take a knee" in a game where archeologists cannot crouch.
At that point I don't think I solved "Power lies at the Foot of Futo" Or if I did I didn't remember it. So pressing down with no indication was never on my mind in the puzzle.

Opinon: This puzzle is

imo the epitome of la mulana's bad puzzles, in that the puzzles' hints only makes sense after they have been solved.

That particular pot always drops exactly one shuriken ammo. Most are inconsistent about whether they'll drop anything unless you have Item Fairy with you. It's not exactly well-communicated but like the non-flickering light it's there.

The achievement title is also an Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade reference, in case someone here has never seen that. He dodged a trap by getting into a praying position in that movie.
Gate of Illusion puzzles:

Are there any hints for Gate of Illusion puzzles outside of the Gate of Illusion? I don't think there are any tablets outside the gate that involve it? But there are puzzles in the Gate of Illusion that involve using the outside world. Most puzzles so far have been region specific and usually didn't involve traversing between areas to solve them.

Some hints for things have been in other areas before. Offhand I think one or two of the hints for the "Those seeking Eden" spots were in areas other than the Temple of Moonlight, where all the spots were.

And of course there's that tablet in the Gate of Guidance about Chi You, who's in Gate of Illusion.


Comments on today's episode:

Seriously? raocow just unintentionally sequence broke the anchor puzzle? Oh well. Atleast tomorrow we can see raocow fight La mulana's worst, or second worst mini-boss. Cow versus Cow combat!

Speedrunners always do that intentionally. They sure do love their caltrops.


Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 11:33
by Alice
I'm kinda impressed that raocow not only accidentally sequence broke but then when he had to do it again the fact it took far too long just to maneuver the enemy into place didn't do anything to make him question whether it was actually the solution or not.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 11:48
by Voltgloss
AweStriker wrote:
Zummorr wrote:
Gate of Illusion puzzles:

Are there any hints for Gate of Illusion puzzles outside of the Gate of Illusion? I don't think there are any tablets outside the gate that involve it? But there are puzzles in the Gate of Illusion that involve using the outside world. Most puzzles so far have been region specific and usually didn't involve traversing between areas to solve them.

Some hints for things have been in other areas before. Offhand I think one or two of the hints for the "Those seeking Eden" spots were in areas other than the Temple of Moonlight, where all the spots were.

And of course there's that tablet in the Gate of Guidance about Chi You, who's in Gate of Illusion.

raocow found "Those Seeking Eden" clues in the Spring in the Sky, the Inferno Cavern, the Chamber of Extinction, and the Graveyard of the Giants. Part of why I consider that puzzle one of my favorites in the game is that it teaches the player they will need to put together puzzle pieces scattered across multiple different fields.

Also, as raocow himself noted, the puzzle to flood the Temple of the Sun using water from the Spring in the Sky involves two areas (and has clues for it in both areas).

As to the "Prove thou art small" puzzle: there are two clues outside the Gate of Illusion.

One is Xelpud: if you bring him the Mini Doll (like he e-mailed you to do with other usable items back when you got the Serpent Staff), he suggests you "try using it in a place that makes you look like a little man." The other is a tablet raocow has read in the Mausoleum of Giants: "The Mother was great. She made even the Giants look tiny. The Giants were great. Thou art tiny, like a little doll."


Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 21:57
by Grounder

a keyblade


Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 22:10
by repairmanman
Endless corridor, here we come!

Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 23:40
by Sebby19
I don't understand raocow's aversion to sub-weapons, sometimes

I believe if you don't close the sacrificial pit, the ghost virgins continue to throw themselves into the spikes. Their blood then trickles down to that gizmo, and then drips onto Chu, which heals him. The original's gizmo looked a lot more ghastly, it looked like giant veins were connecting it and the spikes. I may be wrong, but I think I successfully damage raced him without closing the pit.

So we're opening the Endless Corridor eh? Good luck with eternity! If I remember correctly, I defeated Gaurdian #5 before getting the Endless Key.

Where is Shorn? I thought you could briefly glimpse him at the top of the sacrificial pit, where the ladder in the corner is. But he didn't appear yesterday or today.


Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Posted: 17 Apr 2019, 00:10
by FPzero

Man, we're never gonna open up the path in Gate of Guidance are we, I think he's forgotten about floor switches.


Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Posted: 17 Apr 2019, 00:24
by Kleetus
FPzero wrote:

Man, we're never gonna open up the path in Gate of Guidance are we, I think he's forgotten about floor switches.

raocow has spent so much time dealing with the absurdity that is the Gate of Illusion, he can no longer comprehend a puzzle as simple and straight forward as "step on the floor panel".

In all seriousness, he'll probably notice it in editing.


Re: La-Mulana - BSE

Posted: 17 Apr 2019, 01:01
by Kleetus
Chi You, (or 1Chi 2You, if you care about tones) was a war god from eastern China. I myth he is described pretty much how he appears in game, but his head is made of metal. Chi You is credited with bringing metal weapons to China. In one myth Chi You and his military forces engage the army of the Yellow Emperor, China's mythical first emperor. Chi You summons a fog to cover the battlefield, and the Yellow Emperor can not defeat him until a way of dispersing the fog is discovered. Perhaps Chi You is responsible for "fog" of illusions that make up the Gate of illusion.
There have been found ceremonial wine vessels with engravings of Chi You on them, which may have inspired the maiden sacrifices.

Where does he get those maidens from, does he have a supplier, or are they reusable and he keeps sacrificing the same maidens over and over.

Re: La-Mulana - The Elysium Enigma

Posted: 17 Apr 2019, 01:02
by Zummorr
AweStriker wrote:
Zummorr wrote: Opinon: This puzzle is

imo the epitome of la mulana's bad puzzles, in that the puzzles' hints only makes sense after they have been solved.

That particular pot always drops exactly one shuriken ammo. Most are inconsistent about whether they'll drop anything unless you have Item Fairy with you. It's not exactly well-communicated but like the non-flickering light it's there.
When I was attempting to solve that puzzle I did notice that that jar always dropped a shuriken. I even noticed that the wall on right side of the maze was pass through by using a shuriken.

By that point I wasn't sure if the solution to the puzzle was somewhere in the gate of illusion or on some hint somewhere else in the game world. The puzzles in the Gate of Illusion were all self contained up to that point, but the game sets up the precedent that tablets for puzzles can be outside the area.

I just want to point out that the hint for this puzzle has a clause about courageously jumping that doesn't seem to apply to anything. unless it refers to jumping into the light in the previous puzzle.
- Simply wandering will not lessen the illusion. Courage will grant thy wish--the courage to jump into the illusion. The courage to search on bended knee for a single fallen item.

Solving this puzzle doesn't really generate feelings of "Oh it makes sense now!" Pretty much everybody just remarks "That was stupid."
It's like that schoolyard A Room With No Windows riddle.
Voltgloss wrote:

And of course there's that tablet in the Gate of Guidance about Chi You, who's in Gate of Illusion.



raocow found "Those Seeking Eden" clues in the Spring in the Sky, the Inferno Cavern, the Chamber of Extinction, and the Graveyard of the Giants. Part of why I consider that puzzle one of my favorites in the game is that it teaches the player they will need to put together puzzle pieces scattered across multiple different fields.

Also, as raocow himself noted, the puzzle to flood the Temple of the Sun using water from the Spring in the Sky involves two areas (and has clues for it in both areas).

As to the "Prove thou art small" puzzle: there are two clues outside the Gate of Illusion.

One is Xelpud: if you bring him the Mini Doll (like he e-mailed you to do with other usable items back when you got the Serpent Staff), he suggests you "try using it in a place that makes you look like a little man." The other is a tablet raocow has read in the Mausoleum of Giants: "The Mother was great. She made even the Giants look tiny. The Giants were great. Thou art tiny, like a little doll."

I guess there's the

Chi You tablet. It's an item location hint rather than a puzzle hint.


The "those seeking eden" do preface themselves as part of the puzzle set.

My biggest hang up in the Gate of Illusion was that I had no way to be certain that the hints to solve the Maze of Illusion were self contained or not. I was stuck wondering "Did I miss some piece of critical information here, or is it somewhere else in the entire game world?"

Question regarding an item

The Anchor that raocow decided to skip. I forget, it is required to navigate the Tower of the Goddess pipe system? iirc it has a current that flows upward? [Insert Sarcasm about the usefulness of the Anchor]