raocow's talkhaus

FourteenthOrder wrote: ↑5 years ago What new stuff requires so much acclimation? For the most part so far it's just a few new enemies recreated from other games, and it's totally possible to introduce those in a different way. Like, you don't *need* to introduce the concept of Shy Guys with an exact SMB2 1-1 recreation.

Like was mentioned, Superb Demo Sisters is a good example of levels that are clearly SMB1-inspired without taking any actual design from the base game directly. It's totally doable.

This game is super fun and has a ton of cool ASM, but I really wish it would have done more taking-inspiration rather than taking-level-design. It would have been all the better for that imo.

Almost as if SDS and 3mix had two completely different goals in mind, and you want to compare apples to tomatoes.

They might look kind of similar at first glance, but it's pretty obvious that they're not after a single bite.

"It's impossible to pay tribute to something without copying it wholesale" "No it isn't" <-This is the conversation you are replying to, stop moving the point around.

I won't stop being a dissenting opinion, Leet. If you think we're arguing in circles, that's one thing, but the impression I'm getting is that you just want me to shut up.

And no, it isn't possible to be a tribute that's accurate while also trying to be a clone centered around new level design at the exact same time.

EDIT: Since this is bound to come up in later worlds, I feel that 3mix's philosophy is accuracy until accuracy is no longer possible.

Still, the game does get more interesting and creative in its level design further in.
As for the other topics here:

1. Yes you can have interesting level design with lots of creative ASM style gimmicks right off the bat, heck that's arguably what four step level design is in Mario 3D World onwards (and the Donkey Kong Country games from Returns onwards). Those games obviously got a fair bit fancier as they went on, but they didn't exactly start out without any interesting ideas.

I mean, this was in world 1 after all:




The only reason certain other games didn't have interesting 'gimmicks' and good level off the bat is because they either A: decided to focus more on making an ASM showcase, and put little effort into the level design or B: learnt more about programming as they worked on the game and didn't go back to edit the earlier levels.

2. You can also obviously make levels that represent other games and pay homage to them without being carbon copies or remakes too. Super Mario Bros 1X and 3X did this quite well. Hell, 3Mix does it, just later in the game.

Leet wrote: ↑5 years ago "It's impossible to pay tribute to something without copying it wholesale" "No it isn't" <-This is the conversation you are replying to, stop moving the point around.

Yeah, this is what I was saying, so the reply to my "no it isn't" with "these games have different goals" was kind of bewildering to me, I had to double-check that I didn't miss something. ^^;
Thanks.
Sorryyyyy

I also had a reply typed out that pointed out the exact same thing as Leet but I didn't post it because I was kinda bored of the argument.

But "I won't stop being a dissenting opinion" is such a comically strange non-argument that I figured I should say that now. In other words, 3 people all came to the conclusion that you changed what you're arguing, and when someone pointed it out you started acting like a martyr. Nothing about Leet's post could be interpreted as trying to shut you up, I have no idea what gave you that idea other than that you were backed into a corner and are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Poeple don"t liek gaems
Peoople doo laik gamez

I don't think anyone here actually dislikes this game, which is pretty key to the point here about genuine vs. ungenuine arguments. (I don't know about YT comments.) We're actually already getting into more interesting stuff right now, but up until now there hasn't been too much else to talk about.

Yeah, no, this game is super fun. I started replaying it because of this~
I just find style references more interesting than straight remakes on a personal level, and think they're very doable.

(Also I'm a little worried that the remake-heavy nature of things is making things not that fun for raocow since he's played this sorta stuff a lot. Hopefully I'm wrong there, I've just gotten that feeling to some degree with some of his comments. :c)

i mean, i get the idea behind the "wrong" off-key music. and goddamn is it effective. maybe too effective. my ears, they bleed.

I think the music sounds really good

I'm curious what technique was used for this music, if the author manually modified the notes randomly, or if every note was shifted by a certain amount in a certain direction relative to its original note value.

apparently world 3 is largely inspired by mario land 2, and based on ghost levels though all the mario games

*shrug*

I'm starting to jive a little more with the game itself but uhhhhhh i actively hate everything about the music in today's video

calling a lot of what I've experienced in world 3 inspired by mario land 2 is pushing it a bit, other than some of the tile sets and that one monster enemy

I wonder if this game will have Bumptys, a-la this:

woo hoo, JUST WHAT I NEEDED

The music continues to be super weird by being just different enough from tracks I remember. ...I think I kinda like the effect it has though? Or maybe it has just scrambled my brain into thinking that.

title (watching new one now)

Love Bowser Jr's school theater project.

I wonder if it was a specific design choice to have the SMB2 recap levels feel so inaccurate in a lot of places. The game starts off giving you nearly pixel-perfect SMB1 remakes, and then in the SMB2 world it starts to mix things up a bit and the level design becomes more loose with how it represents the original game... and then when it gets to SML2, it just completely throws out the notion of levels being remakes at all anymore and it's only remixing some of the game's themes while doing more original levels.

It's almost like the game is evolving in its level design creativity at the same rate that the Mario series evolves. or idk maybe I'm reading too much into it. But I'm fully expecting this dinosaur world to be its own thing as well with pretty much none of it attempting to recreate SMW levels.

warpio wrote: ↑5 years ago I wonder if it was a specific design choice to have the SMB2 recap levels feel so inaccurate in a lot of places. The game starts off giving you nearly pixel-perfect SMB1 remakes, and then in the SMB2 world it starts to mix things up a bit and the level design becomes more loose with how it represents the original game... and then when it gets to SML2, it just completely throws out the notion of levels being remakes at all anymore and it's only remixing some of the game's themes while doing more original levels.

It's almost like the game is evolving in its level design creativity at the same rate that the Mario series evolves. or idk maybe I'm reading too much into it. But I'm fully expecting this dinosaur world to be its own thing as well with pretty much none of it attempting to recreate SMW levels.

wait until you see the next world.

That boss actually looked pretty fun. Probably the best part of the hack so far IMO.

Also, I find it amusing that the ghost house in ghost world went for a double negative and ended up being the only straightforward level with no ghosty enemies.

warpio wrote: ↑5 years ago I wonder if it was a specific design choice to have the SMB2 recap levels feel so inaccurate in a lot of places. The game starts off giving you nearly pixel-perfect SMB1 remakes, and then in the SMB2 world it starts to mix things up a bit and the level design becomes more loose with how it represents the original game... and then when it gets to SML2, it just completely throws out the notion of levels being remakes at all anymore and it's only remixing some of the game's themes while doing more original levels.

It's almost like the game is evolving in its level design creativity at the same rate that the Mario series evolves. or idk maybe I'm reading too much into it. But I'm fully expecting this dinosaur world to be its own thing as well with pretty much none of it attempting to recreate SMW levels.

That's the case for many hacks, though. If the creator makes the levels from 1-1 to 8-4 (or whatever) in chronological order, then their quality and sophistication will evolve as the player progresses through the game. I think 8 Powers was a recent example for that.

I feel it was a real missed opportunity that they didn't create 8-bit Yoshi for the SMB1 and 3 styles in Super Mario Maker (and have Goomba's Shoe/Stilleto for SMW and NSMB).

But with Super Mario Maker 2 being announced yesterday, hopefully that gets fixed.

All the remade World elements (all three of them) are pretty novel just because it's an nes game