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Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - Tippi and Count Bleck

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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by ano0maly »

Classtoise wrote: 5 years agounfair

(opinions)
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Leet »

Classtoise wrote: 5 years agowe all had to sit through what felt like 50 episodes of ASMBXT """postgame""" introducing us to characters we'd never see played ever again
What the fuck are you talking about?
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by CM30 »

Voltgloss wrote: so these are basically the *definition* of padding, right? can anyone think of a more blatant example? legit curious because man I sure can't
Leet wrote:
Voltgloss wrote: 5 years ago so these are basically the *definition* of padding, right? can anyone think of a more blatant example? legit curious because man I sure can't
Games where you have to play the whole thing again to actually get an ending?
Ghosts 'n Goblins I take it?
THIS ROOM IS AN ILLUSION AND
IS A TRAP DEVISUT BY SATAN.
GO AHEAD DAUNTLESSLY!
MAKE RAPID PROGRES![sic]
Or perhaps Super Mario Galaxy, since the original was literally 'play the whole again with Luigi for the secret last level/ending'. Mario Galaxy 2's Green Stars may count too. As may a lot of the awkward 100% completion requirements in 3D Land, 3D World, Odyssey, etc.

But seriously, apart from the comets, I'm not exactly that critical about this hack. Yeah it's a bit basic and doesn't really do enough with some of its ideas, but part of me thinks that it's less the games fault and more that it's simply... well, too simplistic for someone who's played as many hacks like raocow (or watched as many as his fanbase).

Think about it. Yeah, if you've played the VIP series or JUMP or the ASMT series or what not, this will be pretty much a cakewalk by comparison, and you won't find the level gimmicks/ideas all that interesting in their execution.

But someone who's never played a ROM hack in their life, well they might quite like this. It's very much at a Nintendo level of difficulty, and the level design seems very much beatable without save states by someone who's still fairly new at playing platformers. That's far more accessible than most hacks and fan games anyway, and I kinda commend that aspect.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Leet »

1) Naw, I wasn't thinking of super secret finales like those in real nintendo games or in fact in 3mix, I was thinking stuff like Persona 1 where you can get an arbitrary bad ending 2/3rds into the game based on a random choice from way earlier. That actually cuts you off from the ending at all, not a super secret ending.

2) I think I disagree about this being Nintendo difficulty, I feel like the original SMB3 was harder than this. Is that wrong? It really feels like it though, and this is a romhack of SMB3 so I would think it would expect the player to have familiarity SMB3, let alone the several games it references which I would also say are harder than this hack. Galaxy, was right? Right...?
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Classtoise »

ano0maly wrote: 5 years ago
Classtoise wrote: 5 years agounfair

(opinions)
I'd like you to point out where I called my post some sort of objective fact? I must've missed that.
Leet wrote:
Classtoise wrote: 5 years agowe all had to sit through what felt like 50 episodes of ASMBXT """postgame""" introducing us to characters we'd never see played ever again
What the fuck are you talking about?
Whatever that SMBX game that "ended" and ended with a bunch of special levels of "And here's Mega Man! And here's Snake! And here's..." and was just a lot of filler.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by ano0maly »

People aren't going to look kindly at an aggro post with no elaboration and about matter that is out of place for the topic of this thread. If you have stuff to say about something then describe the stuff. Jabs without substance are pointless and help no one.

Also that episode may have been MAGLX2 with a preview of SMBX 2.0 content, which explains why the new characters.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Leet »

Classtoise wrote: 5 years ago Whatever that SMBX game that "ended" and ended with a bunch of special levels of "And here's Mega Man! And here's Snake! And here's..." and was just a lot of filler.
If you could keep track of what LP is which, or remember that a contest is itself a random collection of levels and not actually designed as a whole (what part of maglx2 wouldn't be filler in comparison to the tech demo?), you might come close to forming an argument. Unfortunately, that argument would still just be bringing up random other games raocow's played instead of actually addressing his criticism of 3mix.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by MonkeyShrapnel »

It feels like no matter what raocow plays, there's always a flamewar afterwards
Uh...Do I just sign here? What do you mean it should be obvious? There are people in this world...well...a whole lot of people that can't follow basic instructions!

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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Classtoise »

Leet wrote: 5 years ago
Classtoise wrote: 5 years ago Whatever that SMBX game that "ended" and ended with a bunch of special levels of "And here's Mega Man! And here's Snake! And here's..." and was just a lot of filler.
If you could keep track of what LP is which, or remember that a contest is itself a random collection of levels and not actually designed as a whole (what part of maglx2 wouldn't be filler in comparison to the tech demo?), you might come close to forming an argument. Unfortunately, that argument would still just be bringing up random other games raocow's played instead of actually addressing his criticism of 3mix.
I think I was pretty clear that "He's been kinder to what amount to a tech demo preview" was a pretty cut and dry argument, but hey whatever helps you dodge my actual point, that's great too.
ano0maly wrote: People aren't going to look kindly at an aggro post with no elaboration and about matter that is out of place for the topic of this thread. If you have stuff to say about something then describe the stuff. Jabs without substance are pointless and help no one.

Also that episode may have been MAGLX2 with a preview of SMBX 2.0 content, which explains why the new characters.
Except I made my point clear; He's been much nicer to hacks that had much less to them, so why is he suddenly so nasty to Southbird? Like, it wasn't even "I feel like he got kind of too into recreating Galaxy mechanics and got wrapped up in it and lost sight of how fun the levels might be on a return trip". He outright questions if the person making the hack knew why people played games. It came off as vindictive rather than having any substance or purpose. It was just a mean jab at a hack whose biggest flaw is "it's not very inventive", where he's excused hacks/levels that barely worked.

I'm not even this games biggest fan (HERE I am, but in general). It's an alright hack with some annoying/repetitive music and could stand a few more unique levels or mechanics, and the comets feel a bit uninspired to just be the same level a second time (adding a gimmick or enemy would be fun. Like "Okay it's 1-1 through 1-3, but this time there's spineys where there were goombas, you get one mushroom, and the Fire Piranha's are now Pansers.)

But THAT'S why I'm staking my flag here; it felt uncharacteristically nasty.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Leet »

I dunno, is it that crazy that something that barely works can still be more fun than something that works but is hella boring? Yes, seeing new player characters in smebex is better on principle than "play the same level but there are purple coins in a straight line", I think I would agree with that opinion. (And the levels themselves were of varying quality but certainly better than this; moreover, calling them 'filler' makes zero sense in the context in which they were placed.) But I still don't think bringing up other things raocow's played is a great argument, because they're ultimately irrelevant to his opinion and reaction to this game. ("Its biggest flaw is its not very inventive" is your words, not a truth that everyone's reactions are predicated on.)
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by raocow »

I responded on youtube, but to repeat myself here: yeah I do come off as way ruder than I mean to. I don't mean this to be an excuse, but the explanation is that I just find it very boring, and being bored really brings out my nasty side unfortunately. That part of maglx2 at least had new toys to play around with, this is litteraly just.. replaying levels in ways that are almost different and I'm just so bored and desperately trying to make it work but I just can't.

Yes I get weirdly personal and there's no reason for that, I appologise for that, and for the uneasy tone I've created.

I wished that the comets didn't lock more content behind them. If you could otherwise access the actual new stuff in the postgame things would be very different.

Trash can be interesting. This just feels like empty calories.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by FourteenthOrder »

Yeah, I've actually stopped watching temporarily because this part of the game is just dull. ^^;

Sorry...
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Leet »

At least there's only one more day of it left assuming the same completion rate.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephistophiles

Post by Awoo »

It's neat on a technical level, but, man that gimmick gets old fast. Replay like 20 of the same levels? What's even the point of the 3-coins-per-level thing then? I thought that'd unlock the center of the Star Road, but the fact that it doesn't and you have to replay essentially like 1/3 of the game is seriously lame :ehh:
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Dragon Fogel »

The funny thing is, it wouldn't be that much of an issue if the levels were more memorable. It still wouldn't be great but at least there'd be some "oh yeah I remember this part, it was cool" moments.

Here it's just making it clearer how bland most of the levels were.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - attn: mr. mephisto

Post by Mineyl »

SAJewers wrote: 5 years ago Question: does anything special happen if you win the card game?
The unrevealed Bowser and Jr. cards are flipped over to show you where they were, then the game ends. No victory fanfare or anything.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - with cream!

Post by Awoo »

With cream indeed! :pal:

Congrats, raocow! Now you can play the actual post game after all that super tedious work!

What will the universe reveal to us next time? Let's find out together :rao:
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - the boredom of samuel tanguay

Post by Grounder »

I'm glad this LP is almost over. I'm gonna remember this as the one that became unfun for everyone, and like three people actually enjoyed at all.
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - the boredom of samuel tanguay

Post by AuraLancer »

It's not amazing, but I've been enjoying the LP. The same can be said of the comets in Mario Galaxy. Not amazing, but enjoyable - and definitely more difficult. They were done better there.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - the boredom of samuel tanguay

Post by SAJewers »

contains spoliers for world 0, but i figured some might find these interesting

https://gamingreinvented.com/interview/ ... southbird/

https://hg101.kontek.net/romhacks/3mix-interview.htm
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - the boredom of samuel tanguay

Post by CrappyBlueLuigi »

oh! with cream
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - the boredom of samuel tanguay

Post by Rixithechao »

Kinda regretting my curiosity in seeing what the LP thread was like after today's episode...

When determining whether a game would work for a raocow LP it might be good to start being more mindful of not just the overall quality and general compatibility with rao's playstyle, but the game's specific highs and lows. As I've said a few times before, the fundamental nature of LPs and the limits rao places on himself amplify the impact of certain design issues or flawed content more than for most players; we can skip bad optional content or drop the game at our discretion if we hit a slog or difficulty spike, but he doesn't have/give himself those luxuries, especially with patreon-voted games where that underlying sense of obligation and commitment is that much stronger.

In other words, if we want to minimize the risk of future incidents like this we should do our best to find out about any particularly boring/tedious/frustrating segments in hacks, SMBX episodes, fangames, etc. before tossing them into the patapon polls or the request thread.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - the boredom of samuel tanguay

Post by SAJewers »

Rockythechao wrote: 5 years ago In other words, if we want to minimize the risk of future incidents like this we should do our best to find out about any particularly boring/tedious/frustrating segments in hacks, SMBX episodes, fangames, etc. before tossing them into the patapon polls or the request thread.
Good luck with that.

EDIT: I should also mention, while I've never played this, i've known about it for a while, and until this lp, i've never really heard of complaints or negativity towards this, just praise. raocow's complaints on the comets are i think the first big criticism i've heard.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - the boredom of samuel tanguay

Post by Voltgloss »

SAJewers wrote: 5 years ago contains spoliers for world 0, but i figured some might find these interesting

https://gamingreinvented.com/interview/ ... southbird/

https://hg101.kontek.net/romhacks/3mix-interview.htm
Reading these gives, I think, the answer to "why does this exist." And the answer is, as some surmised, "to be a tech demo." A germane, non-spoilery quote:
Captain Southbird's interviewer and Captain Southbird wrote:
Regardless, 3Mix absolutely blew up when it was released, becoming one of the most well-known Super Mario Bros 3 hacks in history. Did you expect it to be received so well?

Not at all. I mean, I figured it’d do okay, and I was hoping a few folks would enjoy it. It was really a passion project. I just wanted to not only claim I had disassembled SMB3, but also demo something that showed what could be done with it. I keep hoping one day someone will release something truly amazing based on its source.
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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3MIX - the boredom of samuel tanguay

Post by Rixithechao »

SAJewers wrote: 5 years ago
Rockythechao wrote: 5 years ago In other words, if we want to minimize the risk of future incidents like this we should do our best to find out about any particularly boring/tedious/frustrating segments in hacks, SMBX episodes, fangames, etc. before tossing them into the patapon polls or the request thread.
Good luck with that.
I'm aware that "do some research/refresh yourself on a game before suggesting it" is a bit of an idealistic suggestion that not everyone's going to follow, but it's not like we don't already consider other factors when discussing whether a game would be good LP material. If even a few folks take the time to check for potential non-raoLP-friendly parts, it could still make a difference.

That being said, it'd also be good to provide some kind of general, non-spoilery heads up about that kind of stuff in games already in the lineup; maybe something like "[early/mid/late/post]game 3mix comet warning:

world 5

" at the start of the LP? Or something else along that line of thinking that still softens the impact when raocow gets to that point but doesn't leave him dreading a future part of the game for a chunk of the playthrough. idk.

Edit: On a tangential note, there's a lot of good insight and neat trivia in that first interview.
How did it feel seeing the media cover your game? Or to see Mike Matei cover it at Cinemassacre?

This was a huge moment for me. Although, of course, a huge bummer as well, as he found a game-breaking bug that was enshrined in a video with several hundred thousand views and a disappointing end to that video. It did inspire me to quickly release a patch correcting it, and I now always refer to it as “the Matei Bug.”

However, some good came of it I suppose, which got me involved in my current side work as a highlight video editor for the streamer Vinny of the Vinesauce group. Vinny streamed 3Mix at one point which got him and I talking. But that’s a story for another article I suppose.
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