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Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

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Paragraph
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Paragraph »

As I said, WL2 also has "you can't die" as a central conceit and feels perfectly fine for me to play. But, again, there's two factors that make it not frustrating: because losing coins IS a punishment (by the way the exact same punishment that Kirby's Epic Yarn has), there can be obstacles that "just" hit you and don't set you back/purely waste your time, and also the transformations last way shorter, and you usually have more ways to get rid of them. We've seen a single drop of water to make Wario normal again in this entire LP so far, they're faaar more common in WL2.

The issue really isn't about not being able to die at all, it's purely in how it's used. There's little more frustrating for me than getting hit by a caterpillar and having Wario turn into a silk ball, then having to watch him roll around for at least 10 seconds while I might as well put the 3DS (virtual console) down and go do something else productive. Or having to watch Wario roll for 20 seconds down the entire level I just climbed fully knowing that once he finally stops, I'll have to re-climb all of that again. It's insult to injury. And that's going to happen in the future. Same for getting set on fire somewhere high up, forcing you into a pit, you have to wait for the fire to run out AND re-do a significant part of the level. It's maybe "just" a "minor" annoyance right now; if you're going for all 8 coins in one run, it turns into absolute torture.


I want to reiterate that I'd really, really love to like WL3. It's super charming and the structure really appeals to me, the puzzles are great (in principle) and the basic gameplay is fun (if a little slow). But it's one of the most annoying games I've ever played, to me personally, and that's just such a shame.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by strongbadman »

It's worth noting that 2 also had those transformations be benificial to you a lot of the time, and so far I've seen less of that in this game.
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J. J. W. Mezun
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by J. J. W. Mezun »

020. E1 The Stagnant Swamp - Gray

Muddy sky
o'er a cloudy bog ~
rusty hooks.


021. N2 The Peaceful Village - Red

Morning snake ~
that noisy rattle,
Doughnuteers.


022. S1 The Grassland - Green

Fall, next day ~
forgotten wood in
flooded trees.

-------------------

raocow: very unlucky 'bout picking which route is the key route & which is the chest route.

We see this game's bizarre subversions o' its own level themes with a grassland level with a tree room full o' water & a swamp with mechanical hooks on ropes 'bove it. Maybe the swamp is stagnant 'cause o' all the chemicals the construction that made those hooks dropped into the water. It's a good thing Wario is invincible or he would probably have 5 types o' cancer from swimming in that bog water.

That section in "The Grassland" with the falling wooden planks is much easier if you duck & jump. It's odd that raocow ne'er tries that in these Wario games, considering how oft he does it in SMW hacks.
Last edited by J. J. W. Mezun 5 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Nimono »

Paragraph wrote: 5 years ago As I said, WL2 also has "you can't die" as a central conceit and feels perfectly fine for me to play. But, again, there's two factors that make it not frustrating: because losing coins IS a punishment (by the way the exact same punishment that Kirby's Epic Yarn has), there can be obstacles that "just" hit you and don't set you back/purely waste your time, and also the transformations last way shorter, and you usually have more ways to get rid of them. We've seen a single drop of water to make Wario normal again in this entire LP so far, they're faaar more common in WL2.
To be fair, though- all those drops of water in WL2 were solely in Flat Wario areas. (And I think one Mini Wario area, I forget.) None of the transformations in WL3 are used as obstacles EXCEPT Fire, Flat, and Bouncy. (I don't count Dizzy or Ball o String since they're pretty obviously just obstacles. also i may be forgetting some, sorry.) The former is understandable, since WL2 didn't use it like that much and Fire is SPAMMED in WL3 (and that's putting it mildly), while the latter two were also used that way in WL2- in fact, I think they were more used as an obstacle there than a helpful thing. See: Second Cave-path level. I do find it annoying how they spam Fire enemies in WL3, making it an obstacle as opposed to an element to get around or open paths. The times that WL2 used it as an obstacle was in areas with a lot of Water, so you'd easily be able to get rid of it.

also let's be fair- WL2's mechanic of losing coins when you get hit is NOT a very big deal since you usually get TONS in the levels
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Ashan »

I don't know if this is worth spoilering but if you're really getting annoyed with being fat Wario'd all the time,

duck. Even if the donut hits you it'll bounce off of you instead of Wario eating it.


Nimono wrote: 5 years ago(I don't count Dizzy or Ball o String since they're pretty obviously just obstacles. also i may be forgetting some, sorry.)

I think caterpillar stringball is used to break blocks for some puzzles if I recall correctly?


Awoo wrote: 5 years ago I, for one, can't *wait* for raocow to play through Wario Land 4. I've been looking forward to it ever since he started his Wario Land LP series!

Yes, I am aware that he played through it some time ago. I actually played it myself along with him when he did it :3

I'd be pretty shocked if he already did a redo LP after like 2 years. He skipped a Mega Man X trilogy redo in All The Mega Man (and just retroactively added ATMM numbering to the video titles) because he had just done it a year prior.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by RedMageSusie »

Ashan wrote: 5 years ago I don't know if this is worth spoilering but if you're really getting annoyed with being fat Wario'd all the time,

duck. Even if the donut hits you it'll bounce off of you instead of Wario eating it.

I honestly find it kinda hilarious that he did this with other enemies but hasn't seem to make the same connection with the doughnuts.

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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by SAJewers »

maybe raocow's hungry and just wants to eat vicariously through Wario

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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Zach808 »

Apparently, Wario is so bad at playing the flute that the awakened serpents want to burn him alive.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Sebby19 »

Late flowchart update. I guess the universe had to balance out the super early update yesterday.
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I couldn't even pre-prepare this one because I had no idea what raocow would get today. This section is a minor one, it's going to be WAY more messy later on, despite my best efforts.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Alice »

Shard1697 wrote: 5 years ago
Alice wrote: 5 years ago
Shard1697 wrote: 5 years agoreplace "only" with "main" and you have the sincere, if unspoken, opinion of most people who play videogames
I thought the appeal of video games was, y'know, having fun and enjoying yourself.
Right, and it's fun to win. Especially if it takes a little doing.
And winning is the only way to enjoy something? There's a reason things like Metroidvanias are popular and it's not because there's a win state. It's because people like exploring and discovering new things. A lose state or win state is basically irrelevant to that.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Shard1697 »

No, it's not the only way to enjoy something. (And I never said that it was.) But I think the appeal of winning at something (at least somewhat)challenging is, for most people, the biggest draw of videogames. I don't mean that to be a controversial statement or anything, people just like to win. Even in Metroidvanias a fairly big part of the appeal is finding cool bosses to beat.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Sebby19 »

Story Time! With Wario Land 4
The Chain of deals...
At the bottom of The Pool of Rain rests the Mist Fan. This magic item has the capability to blow away the supernatural fog, hiding the East side. The weird thing about this side is that its in perpetual darkness. Not a very cheerful place, compared to the other compass directions. Is it because it's in the shadow of the big volcano, blocking the light coming into the cave (of the real world)?
Greeting Wario on this side is The Stagnant Swamp. Unlike the cheerful marsh that the Mist Fan was found in, this place is dank, dirty, and unhygenic. I don't think you can swim in that thing, Wario. Best find some way around it, because on the other side is the Fantastic Flute!
Wario plays some random tune, which is carried by the wind across the land. Various Giant Snakes come out of their pots in response. Wario can now use the heads as a footstool to reach higher areas in The Grasslands, The Volcano's Base, and The Peaceful Village. The Snow Storm Spell Book is found on the other side of the village, but it's useless without the Freeze Cane, found in a tall tree in the prairie. With both together, Wario freezes all the water on the East side, creating The Frigid Sea. The main landmark of this sea a huge iceberg that was already there, locking it into place.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Piesonscreations »

So it seems like ducking in this game is more a keen to how ducking in the Paper Mario games serves as blocking, rather than how it works in traditional Mario games. huh.

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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Leet »

"Video games are about winning" is the "novels are about moral character" of the modern age
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Sugar »

Oh, cool, an actual HP system in this game.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Sebby19 »

I'm surprised you didn't recognize the boss raocow. You played basketball with him in WLII.
He is an annoying boss though. The only way to score is either a precise arc over the turtle, or a precise bash when the rabbit is in the air to spike him forward.
I think you are supposed to knock the turtle into his shell to have an easier time, but I can't jump of the rabbit in time before the turtle recovers.
It is funny that everyone thinks 'Where's the ball?'
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by raocow »

I mean, I did recognise him. I just didn't think it was worth mentioning ?
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Griflion »

huh, i thought that was a different rabbit, what is he doing in the music box?
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Nimono »

Yeah the INTENDED ways to beat that boss are to either bounce on the turtle to make him cower so you can get an unimpeded shot, or do a tackle-jump at him which is what shoots him straight forward; if you are close enough, he WILL go in the goal unimpeded. Fun fact: The turtle is not neutral. If the bunny shoots YOU, he will purposefully duck into his shell to avoid you so the bunny gets a guaranteed goal. They're in cahoots to rig the game! I guess that's meant to be your hint to try making the turtle go into his shell? (But at least the turtle follows the rules and saves you if you bounce into him.)

That music box... It bothers me. How does it unlock two levels WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING TO THE WORLD? Seriously! All it does is play music and SUDDENLY you now have access to two levels you didn't before, which clearly had no impediment to going to!
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by J. J. W. Mezun »

023. W2 The Volcano's Base - Green

Bland bright day ~
'nother long commute
just for golf...


024. E2 The Frigid Sea - Red

Wintry fall ~
blackens from the cold,
the river.


025. W4 A Town in Chaos - Red

Sunny noon
'hind the dark basement ~
a ball game.

-------------------

I don't blame you too much for getting "1 level too many" syndrome, since 2 / 3 o' these treasures are some o' the weaker 1s. I was thinking yesterday that I should've said in spoiler text something 'long the lines o', "good thing you didn't do the green treasure o' 'The Volcano's Base', since it's basically just the red treasure with that minigolf game 'gain

for a treasure that's useless

", but we can see that that didn't happen.

Then you have the red treasure, where, e'en if you know what to do, you have to go back & forth from the higher & lower rooms to get the red key ( 'less you know how to do an obscure, pixel-perfect wall clip glitch ), & then you have the fight a boss that's as tedious as raocow shows. You can bop the turtle to make it easier to hit the rabbit 'bove the turtle's head, but it stays down for such a short time that it's hardly worth it. By the time you get back to the rabbit & get it in a place where you can knock it into the goal, the turtle will be back up.

I like "The Frigid Sea", though — 'specially the marvelous way arctic bears were able to evolve to fit its new icy climate so quickly.
Last edited by J. J. W. Mezun 5 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Wenn alle stehen bleiben und anstarren
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schaue ich ihnen einfach in die Augen
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J. J. W. Mezun
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by J. J. W. Mezun »

Nimono wrote: 5 years ago That music box... It bothers me. How does it unlock two levels WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING TO THE WORLD? Seriously! All it does is play music and SUDDENLY you now have access to two levels you didn't before, which clearly had no impediment to going to!
I don't think any o' the music box unlocks 'cept the last 1 make any sense. They all just unlock random levels.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Crow »

watching raocow 1. see the path beyond after falling near the end and then 2. not even trying to go down there the first time when he got to the end of zombie hallway was Yet Another Screen Screamer
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by FPzero »

I like to defend this game but I won't defend A Town in Chaos and this boss very much. It's a very sprawling level with a lot of long circuits. This is one case where I'd maybe agree with the "it'd just be better to die and restart the level" sentiment, though the presence of the On/Off switch and the hunt for the red key is what stops me from fully agreeing.

The boss though... Yeah, the boss has a pattern, and a way to better guarantee you'll always get the ball in, but a brand new player is likely to experience the boss in the exact same way raocow did. I'm pretty sure I did. It isn't very clear what causes the ball to fly straight until you see it happen and try various things to replicate it. And even then, if you do it from too far to the left, it won't work. It's also not very intuitive that doing a jumping tackle will create a different reaction since no other enemy reacts differently to a jump tackle.

I don't remember all the missions, but I think that Town in Chaos (Red) might be one of the longest and worst because of how much ground you have to cover, how many opportunities there are for enemies to set you back, and the boss at the end. Hopefully things are a bit better tomorrow.

Also, I love Frigid Sea's music. It's so peaceful.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Griflion »

imo, this level just showed how difficult it is to concentrate on what's happening, especially how Shoot reacts differently when hit by jump tackle, while commenting constantly. Also Wario Land 3 as a whole rather discourages smash your head against the wall play style, which is raocow's play style.
Some comments on youtube suggest that this game isn't even good, in comparison to the other wario lands we already saw raocow play, but this just proves that Wario Land 3 is the most metroidvania-esque game in the series. Which can make it rather frustrating. This will be either one of your favourite Wario games, or one you dislike the most. But calling it bad seems rather close-minded. The game clearly is divisive, but you should be able to see that it is well done, except maybe the golf mini game.
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Re: Wario Land 3 - With input from Samus

Post by Zach808 »

I wouldn't necessarily call the boss bad. It just shows up way too early. There's a powerup later on that would make this a much easier/fun fight.
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