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HOLLOW KNIGHT - Blessings

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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Crow »

there's a pitifully easy route for the flower quest i found the other day that puts you in exactly zero dangerous rooms, i did one try to find the route and one more try to actually complete the quest. but yeah, you literally can't do it atm and i wouldn't recommend going after it for a while, at the very least having a stronger nail will help deal with enemies when you need to

and raocow the place you were trying to sequence break up to, you wouldn't get very far in it anyways even if you could get up to it, so don't worry about it for now. what you were trying to do is (surprise) not the intended way to get up there, anyways
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Sebby19 »

it looks like he wasn't even clinging on the ledge there. Maybe if he tried the opposite wall...
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Awoo »

Does the Elderbug know anything about the Queen's Grave? I suppose it might be tricky to get back to him with it, though if you lose it you could just go talk to him anyway.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - Crazy Heart

Post by Alice »

bbbrrr_it_cold wrote: 5 years agoI'd honestly much rather see the game punish him if he makes a bad choice or reward him if he makes a good one.
That's kinda the issue though. He's raocow and he'll just raocow his way through things regardless of the game punishing him or not. He's proven time after time that he's basically immune to learning lessons.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Crow »

i've been told that in canada it is illegal to learn anything after you finish school
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by tirakai »

One surprising thing this ep is raocow finding the breakable walls for the path to the delicate flower, he's missed so many so far. Might be something to keep track of.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by FPzero »

To be fair, the breakable walls here are pretty well marked with visible cracks against a black foreground. Other walls typically aren't.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - Crazy Heart

Post by bbbrrr_it_cold »

Alice wrote: 5 years ago
bbbrrr_it_cold wrote: 5 years agoI'd honestly much rather see the game punish him if he makes a bad choice or reward him if he makes a good one.
That's kinda the issue though. He's raocow and he'll just raocow his way through things regardless of the game punishing him or not. He's proven time after time that he's basically immune to learning lessons.
I disagree on both points.
Bunny game (whose name I kind of don't want to remember) has shown us that he CAN AND WILL change builds when he knows that thing aren't working. And, despite the aesthetics being rather different, the game-play is similar enough that I have faith.
And secondly...no, seriously, the game WILL PUNISH HIM. I speak from all sorts of experience in both of my play-throughs of this game. And that punishment is not as easily shrugged off as you seem to think it is. I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this, but I want to make it clear that if you think he won't be punished, you're vastly underestimating this game and the fullest of its brutality.

I feel like I have a lot more to say on this subject, but it would assuredly end up being a rambling mess. So the best I can really say is that, especially when we see raocow becoming a better gamer and performing impressive feats, it really does shock me how much people harp on about him not learning or noticing things or whatever. He plays games at a higher skill level than I certainly can...
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - Crazy Heart

Post by Alice »

bbbrrr_it_cold wrote: 5 years agoAnd secondly...no, seriously, the game WILL PUNISH HIM. I speak from all sorts of experience in both of my play-throughs of this game. And that punishment is not as easily shrugged off as you seem to think it is. I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this, but I want to make it clear that if you think he won't be punished, you're vastly underestimating this game and the fullest of its brutality.
Well you're perfectly free to disagree with me then. You're definitely wrong on this bit though. I've played most of the game myself as well as watching Iso's lp of the game (which was 100% completion up to that point in time iirc, including the

Nightmare King Grimm fight

) so I'm definitely aware of what it does.

I'm basing what I say off of raocow's history in regards to things people say he couldn't possibly do unless he does it the right way. Then he proceeds to beat his face on it until he miraculously succeeds and has a bad habit of taking his success as evidence he's going about things the right way. He does occasionally learn his lesson when the game makes it abundantly clear his methods won't work but even then it's frequently a temporary lesson learned.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if raocow's play style stayed more or less exactly as it is currently and he just gets better at inexplicably surviving battles he should by no means be surviving through things like improbably timed heals and very lucky dodges.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by warpio »

This game isn't really close to being Rabi Ribi levels of difficult, so I can imagine him raocowing through the game without learning certain things. It's all good though. this is the kinda thing I enjoy watching blind LPs for. It's interesting to see people find other ways to play through the game that are different from my own playthrough.

I have to admit, there are certain things I never figured out on my own in my blind playthrough like using the dream nail to get flavor text on everything.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by ano0maly »

bbbrrr_it_cold wrote: 5 years ago
Alice wrote: 5 years ago
Both of your posts describe why it can help to post wise advice, spoiler-tags if necessary, and let him know he can refer to it if needed. I don't want the game to punish him when it's clearly avoidable, unless there's something entertaining and worth seeing in letting him experience it. Letting him play with bad configurations led him to quit Valdis Story. And I don't want to see him brute force through things if it leads to undesirable outcomes. I'm not saying that you have to play it the intended way or there's only one way to do things, but the way you describe raocowing through things implies oversimplifying the game and isn't a smart way to do things. raocow might succeed in the challenge but still walk away with a bad impression of it due to misunderstanding, or alternatively, project a bad impression to the viewers and create one of those raoglasses scenarios. That does the game a disservice.

Making hints available for reference and giving that informed choice would be a better scenario than seeing whether or not he can force his way through.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Awoo »

All I know is that I'd love to see Menderbug again
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Crow »

raocow.... you can do superfly from the floor... not just walls...
aaand you figured that out in a jump cut, lol
what a jerk

also re: flukemarm, i ignore this boss until my sword is strong enough to one-shot the spawns, at which point the fight becomes pitifully easy

i really dislike this fight because it basically just exists as a sword strength check because of this
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by bbbrrr_it_cold »

An enemy "exploded in dream" because sometimes they just do that. You only get a singular essence from it and not something to worry about.
The technical reason this mechanic exists is that

the first dlc introduced an ability that consumes essence. Since certain progression things are locked behind essence and it was an otherwise finite resource, they needed to make sure you could still get those things even if you abused the ability that consumes essence. Thus, enemies can now (sparingly) drop essence.



Also, that's a fun strat for Flukemarm. Since I always go to the sewers as late as I can, I have other stuff to do other things. But if I didn't, that's probably what I would end up doing (or, more likely, trying to do).
Parama wrote: i really dislike this fight because it basically just exists as a sword strength check because of this
I disagree. If you have

Howling Wraiths (or the upgrade thereof if you really put off this fight)

, sword strength becomes a relatively moot point. I mean, I'm still not a fan of the fight, but that's just because raocow is right - the whole thing is disgusting.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Sebby19 »

How good is the ground pound move on this boss? Do you still get hurt if you try?
Does the new upgraded ground pound have a AoE that can hurt airborne enemies?

I would advise raocow to get rid of the dash badge. I really don't think he'll notice its absence.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by tirakai »

And this is why thorns are a really good, it makes bosses quite a bit faster to beat if you're the facetanking type (and is especially useful for ones like this where it's hard to heal).

I agree dashmaster is a pretty bad charm, I think it'd be better off unequipping that and keeping thorns tbh. Possible unequipping Gathering Swarm too so there's for another 2 slot charm.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Awoo »

How charming :3

When does the train ticket thing come into play from the crossroads to the resting grounds? It seems like an odd feature
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Crow »

@Awoo

the tram pass is found in an area raocow hasn't explored yet & it's necessary to get to at least one location in the game

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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by 10204307 »

Sebby19 wrote: 5 years ago How good is the ground pound move on this boss? Do you still get hurt if you try?
Does the new upgraded ground pound have a AoE that can hurt airborne enemies?
The ground pound makes you invulnerable for the duration of the attack (after you start moving downward) as well as for a second or so afterward (so you have time to get out of the way). The shadow thing that shoots upward when you use Descending Dark can damage enemies above you, yes.

The move is actually extremely powerful if you get a direct hit and the shadow hits the enemy multiple times. With the Shaman Stone charm it can absolutely shred through some bosses. Of course, the difficult part is getting above enemies so you can use it without getting hit before it starts.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Awoo »

Thanks, Parama!

Don't forget, cowrao, you got the key that you can give to the shopkeeper in Dirtmouth to buy more things :3
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Alice »

Parama wrote: 5 years agoalso re: flukemarm, i ignore this boss until my sword is strong enough to one-shot the spawns, at which point the fight becomes pitifully easy

i really dislike this fight because it basically just exists as a sword strength check because of this
It's been awhile so I may be misremembering but I believe it's also possible to just equip both sword range extension charms and stand as close as possible to the boss and largely just spam attack to beat it without much effort as well.
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by Crow »

either way it's a boss that isn't really like other bosses in the game and doesn't play very well comparatively. there's only one other boss in the game i reeeeally dislike

watcher knights

& we probably won't see that one for a while yet tho it has a completely different problem than this one
flunky bosses are generally bad though
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by RobinLSL »

Now that was an interesting way of dealing with the Flukemarm!
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

Post by LatexHydra »

I was hoping he'd fight the scatman today
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Re: HOLLOW KNIGHT - The Descending

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