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VIP 4 2018 - That was fun

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MonkeyShrapnel
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - The BGM is SaGa 2's "At the End of the Struggle"

Post by MonkeyShrapnel »

morsel/morceau wrote: 5 years ago In the water room, if you get that star instead of ignoring it, you can go underneath and fight a boss bass mini-boss that immediately precedes the midpoint room. It's the best and coolest part of the castle and raocow, despite using a map and playing with savestates, managed to completely miss it.
raocow most likely to get lost with a map 2018
Uh...Do I just sign here? What do you mean it should be obvious? There are people in this world...well...a whole lot of people that can't follow basic instructions!

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Re: VIP 4 2018 - The BGM is SaGa 2's "At the End of the Struggle"

Post by Awoo »

MonkeyShrapnel wrote: 5 years ago raocow most likely to get lost with a map 2018
I second this :3
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - The BGM is SaGa 2's "At the End of the Struggle"

Post by Whimsical Calamari »

episode 37

DailyMotion
part 1 of something! - April 5, 2008
0:00 - Boon, the Switch, and Roy!
5:47 - ...!

YouTube
Boon, Then Switch, Then... Roy? - February 19, 2009
0:00 - level
7:50 - plot

Reckless as usual, dailymotioncow.
Once again, we have a level where things go better with rewinds than with savestates, but I think that's more due to the nature of the challenge than the mental side of things.

(also, now there's proof that the moon of plot is unattainable from the other side)
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - The BGM is SaGa 2's "At the End of the Struggle"

Post by LunarRainbowShyGuy »

So I got distracted by other games for a few days, and at the time I thought "oh I'll just catch up later". Two weeks (and many frustrating levels) later I've finally caught up. It may only be in time for the end of the game, but at least I'm here. There's also the post game levels, though considering that some of the levels so far have given me a lot of trouble, I'm kind of dreading the post game. Anyway, I've been writing comments for all the levels I played, and here they are.
Hot Beach Tiser: This was certainly a thing to come back to. Long story short, I didn't really enjoy this level. As raocow mentioned you rarely have to get close to boss bass in SMB3, and after playing this level I can see why. The first part of this level is actually not that bad. It's difficult, but if you take your time you can get through relatively easily. Of course in the second half you have to ride the line guided ropes, removing your ability to control the pace at which you go. After getting to the last rope and dying I decided I'd had enough and went to go get some capes and fly over the level (fortunately there were some easily accessible capes in the nearby Horse Cavern so I didn't have to go very far). Though for a moment it seemed like flight had been disabled, but for some reason it's only disabled in the small entrance rooms.

The level was enough to make me fly over it, but the secret exit was even worse. First of all, you have to play through the majority of the level just to get to it. Then the level creator decided that boss bass wasn't enough and put phanto in as well. I actually wouldn't mind a level with both phanto and boss bass if it didn't feel like they were just tacked on to make the level harder, but that's exactly how it feels here. If there was only one of them here I feel like it might be alright but both of them is just too much. Then there's a boss at the end, in case the path leading up to it wasn't bad enough. The boss isn't actually that hard, but after going through the previous segment my nerves were on edge and I died a few times. The fact that there's a constant threat of instant death there certainly doesn't help though. I was really tempted to use a save state here, but I eventually managed to beat the boss on my third time fighting it.

A Castle Filled With Bubbles: Not much to say here, except that the bubbles are annoyingly finicky.

Uber-Homing: I was worried when going into this level that it would feature the bad kind of homing bullet bill (which have thankfully been mostly absent from this hack so far). Because I still have the boss bass level fresh in my mind I'm going to end up comparing this level to that. In regards to the first half of the level, this is how you have an ever-present threat done right. For one thing the bullet bills aren't instant death. There's also numerous safe spots, allowing you to take your time and think about how to get to the next safe spot (if you do that the level isn't too difficult). The secret exit unlocks a nice shortcut to world one, which I wish I had gotten before I decided to go to the world one castle to farm for lives, but oh well.

The second half of the level is a pretty standard thing where you have to run fast. I do wish there was at least a little bit of margin for error, but it's still pretty fair overall. You can even bring along the shell from the koopa at the start to use as a shield. Anyway, the important thing here is that I had fun, which is more than I can say for a certain other level in this world.

Poison Water ~glub glub~: I actually found this level to be pretty easy; I only died once, and that was because I decended too fast and fell in a pit. I'm not complaining about it being easy though; it's actually nice after some of the recent levels. I found the boss to be pretty neat. As long as you play it safe and only move the keys a little bit at a time it's not too hard (though I did end up taking the middle key up in one go, but I almost died and I realized I wouldn't be able to do that with the side keys). I did have a bit of a laugh watching raocow struggle with the boss that I beat on my first try. Usually I'll be the one struggling with something, then I'll watch raocow do it on his first try; it's nice to be on the other side of that for a change.

Blue Hills: Even though this was far from the worst level I've played, I wasn't really a fan of this level. Right at the start there's a coin trail that will lead you right into harm's way if you just follow it immediately, which for me gave off some rather unfriendly vibes. Then as you progress through the level a lightning generator appears without warning. There's not much to differentiate the generated lightning from the manually placed lightning other than the fact that the generator always places lightning right above you, so you probably won't figure out that there's a generator right away (if you figure it out at all). It's not too bad once you know what's coming, but when coming to it for the first time you definitely won't know what's coming, and it could easily kill you.

The second half of the level felt awkward to me. It feels as if the creator couldn't decide whether to make a level that wants you to go fast or a level that makes you go slow and deal with the homing bees, so they just tried to put them together with less than stellar results. Also this level expects you to play through literally the entire level twice for the secret exit. I just grabbed a cape and flew over most of the second half the second time around.

Ride It! Control Coin: I like the idea of this level, but I feel like having to press a P-switch every once in a while kind of gets in the way of the level design. Maybe if there was a 'control block' this kind of idea could be fleshed out more.

Switch Grotto: I really liked this level. While each segment is clearly based on a level from the original SMW, they're different enough that it doesn't feel like the creator just copy and pasted the levels. All the while it feels like the level design would be right at home in the original SMW, which is something I personally really enjoy. The level also makes use of the switch blocks, which is another thing a really enjoy.

Stardust Loneliness: I like this level a lot. The graphics look great, and the koopas with the hats look cute (speaking of cute, I agree with raocow that the cats at the end are adorable). As for the level itself, I think the difficulty here is just right. It's challenging, but perfectly doable (though I did slip up a few times on the one tile wide platforms), and the level doesn't pull any cheap tricks or anything. There is a secret exit that requires you to go through the entire level again, but for once I'm fine with that since the level was really enjoyable to play.

Chasing That Koopa: This was an alright level. I did have some trouble with the secret exit, mostly because turning the koopa around by letting it hit you didn't seem like the intended solution to me (though I have no idea what else you could possibly do).

Red-Hot Cave: I'm kind of iffy when it comes to levels that force you to be small. This level seemingly does it for no reason at all though. It doesn't even filter your reserve item, and there are plenty of powerups within the level, so it just seems like a pointless bit of artificial difficulty. Though even with that this level isn't particularly difficult. In fact, I actually beat it on my first try.

The Thick of Battle: I'm pretty sure there's a good reason for bullet bill cannons not shooting while you're next to them, but I guess making difficult levels is more important than having consideration for the player. Anyway, I usually have a lot to say about levels that I don't like, but I don't here. This level just felt like it had tons of enemy spam. The shortcut route did look interesting, I just wish I had found it.

Bowser's Castle Storehouse: As usual, I like that this level uses switch blocks, and that you can choose between multiple paths, etc. Though I went in the upper path and beat the level on my first try and didn't even think to come back and try the lower path.

Speedrun: I like that this level makes you go fast but doesn't demand absolute perfection. I feel like it gets a bit too enemy spammy near the end, but I found that bringing the silver P-switch all the way there solves that problem and even serves as a decent life farm (though I had 99 lives so I don't know exactly how many lives I could have gained there).

Trauma Tower: I feel like this was a really well made level. It's difficult, but fair, and the message blocks give you advance warning of things that might otherwise be unfair. (though the barrels can be troublesome; raocow's not the only one to get wedged into the wall and killed). At first I thought the reversal of controls was a bit too much, but it's not actually that bad; that section is really short and relatively easy (I only actually died there once).

Boon, the Switch, then Roy: This was one of those rare levels that gave me less trouble than it gave raocow. Though admittedly when I died for the first time after the midpoint I used the shell to clone the block and get myself a cape. After that though I had no further deaths.

...!: RIP Luigi.
Now for Bowser's Castle. I made it far in this game, but this is where my savestateless run comes to an end. This level isn't even unreasonably difficult. I just found the balloon room to be extremely tedious. At first I went and grabbed a cape so I could fly over it. After several trips to the Fully Automatic Egg-Cracking Room though I determined that this had stopped being a test of skill long ago, and I placed a single savestate at the end of the balloon room. That's the only savestate I used though. Anyway, considering the size of this level I'll be commenting on each room individually. Before that, on my successful run I went through all the right doors, but I did at least try out most of the other rooms.

The Entrance: This room is a bit challenging, but you can easily learn how to get past each of the obstacles, and it's pretty fun. It's even fun after going through it several times. I just wish I could say that for all the rooms.

Balloon Room: As I've already said, I found this room to be extremely tedious. Between the math platforms and the slow moving balloons there's not much you can do to speed this up (other than flying over everything). After dying to the blind jump at the end I went back and grabbed a cape so I could skip all of this before eventually resorting to using a savestate.

Mega Man Water: Getting through this room safely requires a good deal of waiting, and after the previous room I wasn't to keen on that. Fortunately, unlike the previous room, as you get better you can start to pick up the pace. There's also two fire flowers at the end, so avoiding damage isn't too important.

Ninjas: Jumping over these invincible guys is kind of fun I guess. At least that's what I told myself while I was playing this, but it is pretty boring. It's better than the alternative, but I'll get to that later.

Aerial Blindness: This room is really neat. It has these minimalist graphics which always look cool, with the added twist where you can't see the platforms while you're in midair. Before I placed my savestate I managed to get here once, but then I died and decided to take a break. After I came back I tried to avoid this room, but it wasn't as hard as I thought it was, to the point that I don't really know why I was making an effort to avoid it.

Iron Hallway: After placing a savestate I decided to give this room a try. At that point though I had already gotten good at the other room, and I quickly decided going through here wasn't worthwhile. I hadn't even seen the homing bullets at that point. If I saw those I would have gone "nope" out of there for sure.

Space Dance: I find it interesting that this room changes depending on where you come from. If you come from the water room you start on the lower path, which gives you a cape, making this room super easy. It's too bad this room locks you into going into the worst room, because I gladly would have gone through here rather than dealing with a boring autoscroller.

Aquarium: I have no idea how you're supposed to get through here without losing both of your powerups. I managed to get to the point where I could see the door, but then I died and decided to go to the room I had been avoiding up to this point.

Sewage Cave: This looks interesting. I didn't play through this room at all so I don't really have much to say about it.

Midpoint Room: Yay! Midpoint!

Ghost Elevator: While this room may look like a bit of a nightmare at first (not to mention that it reminds me of a certain level that I'm not exactly fond of), if you take the time to memorize a consistent route through it becomes easy. It's also pretty short despite being an autoscroller, which is nice.

Clothdrying Room: I thought the rooms on the right were supposed to be easy but long, but this room is both easier (if you don't memorize a route) and longer than the ghost elevator. Anyway, despite the weirdness with climbing moving grates I didn't find this to be too bad. It probably helps that I figured out that you can go into the corner at the start and duck jump onto the grates to shrink your hitbox while you're big.

The Final Room. The wizard can be pretty annoying, but fortunately the terrain is pretty flat, so it's easy to kick a shell at him. The room can still be a bit tricky given that you can't really spin jump on the thwomps and thwimps, but fortunately it's pretty short. There's also two powerups right at the start, so it's unlikely to take too many attempts.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by This Eye o' Mine »

Fun fact, that room with the red Yoshi platforms is actually coded kinda weirdly. It only matters whether you enter the room while riding a red Yoshi. If you are, then you can stand on the platforms even if you get off him, and if you aren't then you'll just fall right through. Basically, you could've gotten what was in that block at the end.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by Arctangent »

Well, to be fair, the message box does say the pipe will grant the player an amazing power when the conditions are met. It's some Yu-Gi-Oh! level of splitting hairs, but it still follows.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by LunarRainbowShyGuy »

I spent two weeks not posting here, but it seems that some things never change; I still can't think of anything to say to start my post. Anyway, here are my comments for today's levels.

The Decisive Battle - Bowser's Room - : Wow those earthquakes stun you for awhile, though I guess they have to for such a slow moving boss. Speaking of the boss, the portrait of Yoshi in the dialogue at the beginning reminds me of his portrait from Tetris Attack, though it's probably just because they have the same background colour. As for the boss itself, it's easy. Like raocow, I beat it on my third try.

???: I like that this game actually has some kind of story. Also, I think the princess here is pretty cute.

Yoshi: 'Lemmy Was Delicious!': I find it odd that the game would tell you to go get a red Yoshi and then have it be random rather than simply giving you a red Yoshi. I ended up using a blue Yoshi and flying over the entire second half, stopping partway through to get a fresh koopa.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - The BGM is SaGa 2's "At the End of the Struggle"

Post by Duker »

morsel/morceau wrote: 5 years ago In the water room, if you get that star instead of ignoring it, you can go underneath and fight a boss bass mini-boss that immediately precedes the midpoint room. It's the best and coolest part of the castle and raocow, despite using a map and playing with savestates, managed to completely miss it.
The map wasn't exactly detailed: Image
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by Piesonscreations »

I procrastinated on this one a whole bunch, but hey! I got it done!

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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by raocow »

woah
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by Ditocoaf »

I get that "I think I'm missing a reference here, but this is really cool anyway" feeling real hard.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by FPzero »

That was something

something really cool.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by kitikami »

A modern Fantasia.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - Too many water stages

Post by Kilgamayan »

raocow plays Splatoon (2015)
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - Too many water stages

Post by raocow »

'too many water stages'

haha, this is funny, considering vip6
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - Too many water stages

Post by LunarRainbowShyGuy »

I always hate seeing bloopers in Mario fan projects, because it seems like no one can get there behaviour 100% right. It may seem like I'm just nitpicking but these differences in behaviour are all things that make them harder to deal with. Now before I go and say what's wrong with this bloopers I'll explain how they work (at least in SMB1, though I took a look at the ones in SMB3 and those ones seemed pretty much the same).

If you're below them bloopers will descend until they're just above you before moving. Most people get this part right, except for one key thing. In the official games bloopers won't descend low enough to hit you even if you're big (though in SMB1 it looks like they should hit you, but their tentacles aren't part of their hitbox). As for what direction they move, from what I remember there are actually two different types of bloopers. One type just moves towards you, which is simple enough. The other type though moves in whatever direction you're facing. Though upon going back to SMB1 I found bloopers that weren't either of those types so I guess I might have to look into that more.

As for these bloopers, when they descend they go low enough to hit you even when you're big. This is actually more of a problem then it might seem at first. In order to get them to move horizontally you absolutely have to go high enough for them to be able to hit you. Considering the many confined spaces in this level this can be difficult to do safely. I was going to talk about how these bloopers don't fit into the two types of bloopers I mentioned earlier, but then I found what seems to be a third type. For what it's worth, the movement of these bloopers doesn't really seem to match the third types either, but it's hard to say for sure; I honestly don't really understand the movement of the third type, nor do I understand these bloopers. Another thing that's wrong with these is that they don't ascend as much as they should, though while this does make some things harder, it also makes some things easier so it more or less balances out. Speaking of making things harder, these bloopers are immune to cape swings for no good reason.

Anyway, there's my bloopology report, but I still have things to say beyond the behaviour of the bloopers. I kind of like the idea that the first half kind of did a little bit where you can choose between taking an upper path and dealing with a blooper or taking a more difficult lower path that allows you to avoid the blooper. Too bad it didn't really do much with that idea. The boss seems like an interesting idea for a Reznor fight, but I didn't really find it very fun, though I can't quite put my finger on why.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What does Lemmy taste like?

Post by Piesonscreations »

Ditocoaf wrote: 5 years ago I get that "I think I'm missing a reference here, but this is really cool anyway" feeling real hard.
Well, while there's a bunch of references, none of them are super important lol
Also, thanks peeps :D
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - Too many water stages

Post by This Eye o' Mine »

Make Bloopers thwackable with a cape? No, see, that would make powerups useful, and we can't have that.

Oyster's Pearls: Ikasumi's Fortress

His name for: Squid Ink Fortress

"Oyster adds: 'Not sure what that's supposed to translate to. It's in katakana, most likely the name of a Koopa Kid or something.'" -raocow 2008.

I'm increasingly getting the impression that Oyster had never actually played SMW, or even just looked at the hack itself, as there's not even a Koopa Kid in the stage, let alone one supposedly called "Ikasumi". Maybe he figured that they had different names in the Japanese version, but didn't care enough to actually look those up to check. Who needs search engines?
Also another case where not accounting for the fact that people use language creatively stumps the overly literal translator, as 'ikasumi' is simply the words 'ika' (squid) and 'sumi' (ink); just take a look at this:
https://jisho.org/search/%E3%81%84%E3%8 ... 9%E3%81%BF

(Don't worry lion, I have a thing prepared for tomorrow's level.)
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - Too many water stages

Post by Zach808 »

This level made me feel bad too. There's just something about trying to keep still in tiny areas surrounded by spikes that makes me nervous. This level took me a while to beat.

Btw, next level's secret exit is a royal pain in the ass.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What a surreal level name lol

Post by Rwars »

after watching the video for the dream castle from the old thread, I think I should remind people.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What a surreal level name lol

Post by LunarRainbowShyGuy »

Well I'm now terrified of the next level. Anyway, here are my comments for today's level.

What's With This House? It Moves!: I didn't really enjoy this level. The first half is a slow autoscroller with no powerups. Then there's the second half, which isn't much better. I do agree with raocow that this level does some neat things. I feel like I might have actually enjoyed it if it wasn't for the boss, where one wrong move can cause you to die, making you go through the whole second half all over again. On a slow paced level like this it ends up feeling like a waiting room for the actual hard part. Then there's the secret exit, where you have to play through the entire level again, then there's a 'puzzle' where you have to find the right keyhole. I just ended up referring to raocow's video because I didn't want to play through the level more than I had to.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What a surreal level name lol

Post by This Eye o' Mine »

I was wondering if that series was gonna feature in the video title, considering your avatar.

Don't worry everybody, tomorrow's gonna go like a dream.

Oyster's Pearls: Detteiu's Haunted House/And Then There Was a Haunted House
His name for: What's With This House? It Moves!
(The first one is raocow's corrected version from 2009, the second is the way it was in 2008)

I'm almost sure he didn't even read most of the level name at this point. Detteiu isn't even mentioned in it, and the "it moves" part was dropped. Kind of makes me wonder if "and then there was" was just a thing Oyster put in when he had no clue at all what the original name was referring to, since the construction he replaced with it is kind of colloquial, so though it is very common, I don't see it appearing in any dictionary as is. The only thing Oyster seemed to recognize was the "haunted house" part.

Just to clarify, the original name does use the word for "ghost house" specifically, but we dropped this from our translation because it simply wouldn't fit space-wise, and we felt that this information was least critical to communicating the gimmick to the player (the 'ghost' part of it only really applies to the boss I think). I also kind of would've preferred to have it say "it's moving!" instead of "it moves!", but that caused the same space problem.
EDIT: I also think Oyster's exact translation of the storehouse name never actually appeared in either LP, since the first time raocow said he didn't have the level list open and just guessed at "the last storehouse" from memory, and the second time he didn't even mention it.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What a surreal level name lol

Post by Kilgamayan »

絶望したっ!

(This video title seems like it would been better saved for tomorrow's level?)
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What a surreal level name lol

Post by Zach808 »

Welp, RIP dragon coin run.
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Re: VIP 4 2018 - What a surreal level name lol

Post by Bean »

I like how most of your failures in these runs are more from impatience or a missed jump than being afraid of the level like it would've been back in the day. You're almost there!
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