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cldc 2018 - layers

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
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FPzero
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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby FPzero » 1 year ago

Hi, I judged this contest! Looks like idol is posting my comments along with the other judges so I won't have to do it myself.

I just didn't care much for this level. I don't usually care much about graphical clash, but this one is just really pushing it. Blind Devil put it best in saying it has no cohesion and I'd totally agree with that. It just never really figures out what it wants to be or do, with each section feeling wildly different from one another. The time apples only really apply to the Metroid section, but even then they're barely used there. And that awkward camera placement in the second half is just an amateurish mistake that should've been caught in testing.

Like, I don't hate the level or anything, but it's really bizarre. That said, there were some levels I disliked immensely in here that I still gave higher scores to because even if I didn't have fun, there are a few cases where I still gave high points for presentation and creativity. But we'll get to those eventually.

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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby raocow » 1 year ago

the reason I'm not jumping into doing vldcx is I heard there are long streches of levels that are just not interesting? if there is enough actual interest I could make room for it in *the list*
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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby Leet » 1 year ago

Wow I can't believe the big mystery secret LP was the exact next one on the list that tells us what LPs are coming next! Thanks for keeping us in suspense idol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

on the level, It's a lespna level. That's all there really is to say honestly. I don't remember what the first one raocow played was but we've seen a few of them now
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby S.N.N. » 1 year ago

raocow wrote: the reason I'm not jumping into doing vldcx is I heard there are long streches of levels that are just not interesting? if there is enough actual interest I could make room for it in *the list*
There were something like 180 entries, so yes, there's a huge swath of mediocrity in the middle. That's kind of why I'm hoping that "top 60" collab gets completed - it's not as technically challenging to put together in a single ROM as 180 levels (~250-300 exits) would be, and you'd get the best of the best as a result.

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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby idol » 1 year ago

leet more like feet am i right haha
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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby Le Neveu de Rameau » 1 year ago

S.N.N. wrote: There were something like 180 entries, so yes, there's a huge swath of mediocrity in the middle.
I don't know what you're talking about; I'm sure spamming tile 1F0 like it's 1990 and the future still means flying cars is all you need for a fun and interesting level filled with Big LarfsTM and I don't reflexively vomit at the sight of Captain Falcon now or anything, honest.

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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby Leet » 1 year ago

idol wrote: leet more like feet am i right haha
yeah this is right actually
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby Mandew » 1 year ago

"Revolution Adventure"

This level sure had things. Shame that the second half is so punitive, especially when the autoscroller doesn't really do much for the level :c
Level probably would have been more enjoyable if the sledding section was shortly after the midpoint, and then the level ended?

Aside from that, it sure was a level P:
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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby Paragraph » 1 year ago

Guess we found the one person who actually enjoys the jump jump slide slide segments...

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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby xfix » 1 year ago

A reminder that this is in fact second last place. The quality of submitted levels is like very high.

Yes, I rechecked to make sure. I couldn't believe it either.
Last edited by xfix on 17 Jun 2018, 12:56, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby Kilgamayan » 1 year ago

What was the song that used the KDL3 sound font? It wasn't any KDL3 song that I remember.
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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby S.N.N. » 1 year ago

Kilgamayan wrote: What was the song that used the KDL3 sound font? It wasn't any KDL3 song that I remember.
It’s actually a KDL3 remix of a RtDL track.

Really strange and disjointed level today, but other than being all over the place, it wasn’t nearly as offensive as other 2nd last place entries I’ve seen in previous contests. Certainly gives me high hopes for the rest.

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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby raocow » 1 year ago

honestly for second last place this was really really good. Like lower mid-tier EASILY in other contests.
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Re: Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - apples

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 1 year ago

I guess the "higher bar" of the contest requiring customisation in the SMW engine, as well as the diversity of custom Mario game engines, has led to fewer entrants who are inexperienced or willing to submit very basic work.
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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby idol » 1 year ago

Revolution Adventures
Placement: 34th
Codename: Empathy
Author: YuzuMSX (previously JonKaruzu)
Judge Comments:

FPzero:

Fun Factor: 11/30
Presentation: 7/20
Creativity: 4/10

Total: 22/60

Comments:
Why did you put the sled controls in a message box that you have to jump to hit before you even realize you're in a sled? Why is there even a sled section to begin with? This level has no cohesion of ideas at all, just four completely different sections with unrelated graphics and concepts. Why did Mario jump super high that one time? Why does jumping on some turn blocks make them disappear? What purpose did the ON/OFF blocks serve in the 3rd section? Why the elevator transition? Why was the 2nd part so boring and only full of koopas? And why was the seld section so dang hard and finicky to control?
The level might have looked and sounded good but otherwise it just did not come together well at all. Too many questions, no exploration of ideas, no central focus. If this was a group effort and everyone made a different section, next time you do something like this make sure you try and make all the sections of a level work together, not randomly.

Noivern:

This isn't a good contest for completely random levels. Figure out what you're going to do and stick with it. Just about every section has something completely different that is never used anywhere else, and none of them were all that great. Aesthetically each section was good, but the sharp transition killed the presentation.

Total: 16

Blind Devil:

Fun: It started out pretty easy, then the difficulty increased and increased until the point... it became unbeatable. Yeah, I decided to claim the level as unbeatable because the bobsled section was extremely, EXTREMELY unfair for regular players. So unfair and frustrating that I was forced to use savestates just to know what lied ahead - after trying it out for about two hours and having to redo the entire autoscroll section again and again and again because there weren't any extra checkpoints after that. As for the rest of the playable level, it was also pretty confusing. There's a section with various turn blocks and pitchin' Chucks, and I didn't understand why they didn't turn at all when hitting from below. I was trying to kill some of these Chucks by bumping the blocks from below. Then, I realized that I had to reveal invisible question blocks in order to advance, and then, I tried to spinjump the blocks. When I jumped... poof, the block disappeared. And I went nuts. There are absolutely no clues for the player that these turn blocks aren't regular turn blocks, but post-jump disappearing blocks, which doesn't only affects fun factor, but also presentation (more later). As the player progresses, there's a second sublevel with mostly generic sprite setups in a traditional rompy area. Afterwards, checkpoint, and later on an autoscroll sublevel revolving around platforms and uncreative On/Off block corridors. And finally, the bobsled area of death. It's a kinda long area, with no proper introduction of the gimmick, lots of areas where the player can't properly react and lots of unfair enemy and obstacle placements. Even with me bypassing the powerup filter before entering the area, there was no use. I always take hits. Due to the absurd amount of frustration just in order to beat this specific sublevel (it took me hours and hours, not to mention a 1-day break to make it savestateless), fun factor was weighed down by a huge amount.
Fun points: 3/30

Presentation: The entry gave a decent first impression with the graphics choice, but as progres was made, tilesets had abrupt changes regarding their styles, and in the end, the thematic cohesion was derailed. Level begins as a city/grassland, then there's a sky section and then an icy one. Sprites, at least, kept being vanilla-styled. Apart from that, there was also a little palette issue in the main sublevel - the grass shade had a random dark-brown color when it was supposed to be a darker green, to stay in harmony with the grass color. Now, going on to music, there was no cohesion or consistency here, either - only fully-sampled songs were used, and the one used in the autoscroll section breaks sound effects and global songs as well. You could have used custom unsampled or semi-sampled songs in order to avoid this problem, and they would also be a lot more fitting with the overall feel of the stage. Functionality-wise, there's a little big issue that happens when the player warps from the main level to another, as well as in the game over screen if the player dies in there. After the fadeout, the screen shows garbage. I don't have any clues to what causes this, but I'm sure that workarounds do exist, and that's even worse considering that other sublevels don't have this issue. Another one is with the "hurt player powerup filter" in the end of the autoscroll sublevel - it's totally breakable. Take a hit somewhere, pick up your reserve item and go inside the pipe while flashing invulnerability still lasts. You'll keep your powerup. Lastly, the level didn't have a main gimmick, but the design wasn't that solid either. The fact that certain mechanisms such as the disappearing turn blocks (which could easily have been reskinned), and the bobsled (there is a message box but the player WILL miss it the first time because of the bobsled momentum) weren't properly introduced affected presentation, too. The bobsled was even more flawed because if the player goes too fast, they can't jump. In the end, presentation as a whole is very negatively affected. At the very least, the game didn't crash, and there were no places with horrendous cutoffs or massive slowdown.
Presentation points: 4/20

Creativity: There weren't any mindblowing nor memorable sections in a good way. Lots of custom resources were used but not explored to their full potential. For disappearing blocks, you could have sections in which you unblock a path for a sprite like a Mega Mole to be ridden on, or more action-based sections with enemies that you should dodge while avoiding to jump - jumping would cause the block to disappear and the player to fall in a pit, for example. You could have used the elevator sprite more often and not just as a filler sprite, and have setups with pitchin' Chucks or Super Koopas, so the player would have to carefully control them. You could have made true puzzles with On/Off switches and blocks instead of just using them as a level filler, too... and much more. You could have done much more and better with less resources, could have explored better their behaviors, but unfortunately you did the opposite.
Creativity points: 2/10
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Total Score: 9/60
yuzu is kind of a weird guy. i think he's weird only in his context though. he has been pretty active in the smwcentral discord for a while, and can speak english about as well as mariobros980. this level really fits him.
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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby FrozenQuills » 1 year ago

tfw idol is doing the same thread title gimmick that I did for VLDC9 :roll:
yeah these bottom two places aren't THAT terrible but the judges really did not like levels that have no cohesion
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5th place counter: 5
(SMBX Forums CC11, SMBX Forums CC12, Endgame Madness Contest, SMWC Kaizo Contest 2016, SMWC 24hr Contest 2018)

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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby Leet » 1 year ago

as usual the judge comments kind of make me roll my eyes with how ... i don't have a word for it but they're almost thorough and literal to the point of missing the point. grading is not so bad
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.

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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby idol » 1 year ago

crozenquills lrozenquills drozenquills crozenquills
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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby FPzero » 1 year ago

Leet wrote: as usual the judge comments kind of make me roll my eyes with how ... i don't have a word for it but they're almost thorough and literal to the point of missing the point. grading is not so bad
I'm curious what you mean by this (if you're referring to my comments here). I generally felt like the level was a jumble of a bunch of concepts, none of which were really interesting or explored well. It's not terrible, which is why I went for a slightly below average score, but it's not really good either. It felt a little like a "my first chocolate level" considering the odd variety of graphics and custom resources.

That said, Blind Devil was much harsher on this level than I'd have expected. Something about it really just didn't sit well with him.

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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby Arctangent » 1 year ago

FPzero wrote: That said, Blind Devil was much harsher on this level than I'd have expected. Something about it really just didn't sit well with him.
If I'd hazard a guess, it's the fact that the end of the level suddenly drops the player into a completely new control scheme with no warning, build-up, or even a charity midpoint beforehand. When failing a single part of the section is instant death.

Heck, it wasn't even like the level went from precision platforming to precision jump timing. Everything before that section was really rompy and pretty relaxed.

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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby Mandew » 1 year ago

If I had to hazard a guess; probably the auto-scroller that took 3 to 4 minutes of just sitting around and mind-numbingly waiting after everytime he would mess up on that unforgiving and somewhat janky sledding section.
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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby idol » 1 year ago

if i had to hazard a guess, its because the levels bad as hell. there is no focus, the elements have no cohesion or introduction (randomly jumping up super high? turn blocks that disappear below your feet? a random on/off section with no impact? a sudden elevator? random shells just getting tossed at you with no tossee?), and the entire experience is bookended by an arduous autoscroller thats mindnumbingly boring and a out-of-nowhere skiing section with instant death and a wonky premise.

it's a bad level, definitely. not as bad as lespna's, but it deserves its place pretty wholeheartedly.
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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby FPzero » 1 year ago

Yeah I missed the part where he said he was playing it for 2 hours and declared it unbeatable. Knowing that there was another level that left me similarly drained later on, I totally get the low Fun score from him.

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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby idol » 1 year ago

is it

miraclewaters

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Re: Celiacs Love Dark Chocolate 2018 - ghost sled

Postby Mandew » 1 year ago

Should've figured that raocow would have gotten through this particular entry will very little issue P: I didn't even get through the first part and I know that a lot of people had tons and tons of trouble on that first part.
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