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Celeste - Everest

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ano0maly
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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby ano0maly » 1 year ago

Ever since 3C the game expects you to use the dash wall jump frequently, so assume prima facie that you should use it whenever you see those mini-walls. And you want to press jump as soon as you hit the corner, not necessarily waiting for the dash to finish. In later levels, when you're in situations where you have more control over your position, it's better to be not too close vertically to the corner when you dash up. You might miss your timing if you don't have enough vertical distance.

I genuinely had a lot of fun with the last room of 5C because I like those red bubbles, but this part does get you fatigued pretty fast; I actually stepped out of the room into the previous room for a moment after a while, because I was losing focus and making mistakes with basic stuff. It helps to memorize the steps and which direction you will hold down at what step; someone in a chat described it as "speedrun training".
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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby FPzero » 1 year ago

Overall I like 5C but it is very challenging and demanding. I'm glad the corner clip worked out for you because yeah you might've been there for a very long time had it not. As tirakai said, "Every touchable wall has been there for a purpose so far in C-side and I can't imagine it being any different here." That's pretty much the mantra of the C-Sides. There's one intended solution, now prove to the game that you have the skills to do it.

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby ano0maly » 1 year ago

You actually didn't need the dash wall jump at the dash-activated blocks. You could use the lower-middle one before you jump on the top ones. I wonder if the addition of the middle one is what was changed in the revised level.
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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Lostsoldier20 » 1 year ago

People were hyping up 5C? I mean, the last room is a thing, but overall it's not THAT bad compared to some of the other stuff even previous levels made you do. Could just be me though, and it probably is given I think 1C was what gave me the most trouble up to this point in the LP!

7 and 8 though... oh boy 7 and 8...
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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Cyril » 1 year ago

personally i think 5C is pretty tough just because of the boost jumps
but it's pretty clearly not "harder" than 7C

7C is super fun though so w/e

i also feel like your lookahead at the ending bit there really helped you know what to do the first time you actually got there, you should try that more, it really does help :P
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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby 10204307 » 1 year ago

I think 8C is easier than 7C, honestly. It’s difficult but it doesn’t feel difficult the way 7C does. It sort of makes you feel like, “I can do this, I just need to execute it properly.”

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Cyril » 1 year ago

8C is absolutely easier than 7C
6C is probably the "easiest" C-side overall for one very specific reason though so I expect tomorrow's video will likely go well
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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Lostsoldier20 » 1 year ago

8C I purely put on the Core Blocks.I DESPISE those things and are a huge part of why I spent so long in Core... even if it took me half the time of 7C. As ano0maly has put it into words for me, they're like a combination of the clouds and the pinball orbs. A combination that, if you don't jell with instantly, is going to cause you way more anger than it really should. Lo and behold, it causes me way more anger than it really should. This made 8C FEEL like it took me as long as 7C. On the whole, I'd say 7C is way more fun to execute even if it's so much harder. Even the crushing defeat of seeing the end a few times, only to die within the last dashes, didn't come close to the anger of just... playing 8C.

Given raocow's Core experiences up to now, that specifically isn't going to be much of a wall, or so I think. But I'd still say Core is a marked difficulty increase above 1-6C despite that. His issues with Oshiro jumping not factored in. If anything, his Oshiro is to my Core Blocks.

Also I just realized

there are no fireballs in 8C what

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby FPzero » 1 year ago

To answer your question about what you think you were missing in the middle segment of the room, you could've used the middle dash block as a surface to walljump off of, putting yourself at a better and more consistent angle to grab onto or boost jump off of the right dash block. Otherwise, you had it all pretty much figured out.

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Ditocoaf » 1 year ago

Early in this LP, it seemed wrong when people said this game's engine is very momentum-focused. When you dash, you go an exact distance, and then stop, no matter what your speed was before you start dashing! Now I see that it indeed has momentum, but that dash is deceptive when you're first learning the game. It sets your speed to a certain amount, and then the dash itself brakes you at the end. So it feels like "fast speed goes away pretty quickly in this engine", because you don't realize that the action you rely on for speed and distance is also the thing that's stopping you.

All the weird tricks you learn in the postgame have to do with using the "go fast" part of your dash and then cutting it off before the "actually, dash is a word that means you're forced to a complete stop after exactly fifteen feet" part of the dash happens. It's a weird and unique system.

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby noterday » 1 year ago

The final room of 5C was by far my least favorite room in the whole game. I was very very bad at the timing stuff it requires out of you. But on the other hand the following two C sides have some of my favorite moments in all of it so i felt like it was worth beating just to get to them and i think they'll be fun to watch.

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby 10204307 » 1 year ago

That hidden midpoint really took me by surprise when I played this level. It's surprisingly generous for a level this far into the game. I wonder if it was a late addition to the level?

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Arctangent » 1 year ago

the music today was giving me some nuclear throne vibes

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Grounder » 1 year ago

two levels left

heaven and hell
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Cyril » 1 year ago

The weird part is even without the midpoint I don't feel this one would be one of the harder C-sides, aside from the one boost jump you have to line up most of that last section isn't too bad anyways (I actually did it first try after dying by walking off the cliff next to the binoculars, lol)
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Lostsoldier20
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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Lostsoldier20 » 1 year ago

10204307 wrote: That hidden midpoint really took me by surprise when I played this level. It's surprisingly generous for a level this far into the game. I wonder if it was a late addition to the level?
I actually got to that point and thought "ok there better be a midpoint there because this screen is way too big to be one checkpoint."

Ahhh memories... what a fool I was to think that... All things considered, the 2nd part isn't all that bad... but gets like 1000% worse if you had to do that first section every single time. But is still not nearly as awful in hindsight. Would heavily inflate time spent in this level, but otherwise not the worst thing.

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Zach808 » 1 year ago

I get the feeling that the midpoint was added very late in development when a tester realized that doing the whole thing at once was ridiculous even for C-side standards. Doesn't even fit in with the 3-roomed approach of the other levels.

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Re: Celeste - Lhotse

Postby Cyril » 1 year ago

the last rooms of 7C and 8C are both longer than the last room of 6C would be even without a midpoint, though

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Re: Celeste - Kangchenjunga

Postby strongbadman » 1 year ago

If you have issues manipulting Kevin that midpoint is a godsend. Room 2 was extremely Needle Game, and I don't just say that because of all the needles. the setup of having to go down one path and then back out of it and down the other is classic Fangame setup.

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Re: Celeste - Kangchenjunga

Postby Cyril » 1 year ago

i really like the kevin block puzzle in this c-side though. the way everything flows naturally is just really cool & feels really good too. honestly this entire c-side is probably one of the better ones imo, alongside 2 & 7

though really 3 is the only one i think is kinda crap
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ano0maly
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Re: Celeste - Kangchenjunga

Postby ano0maly » 1 year ago

To answer raocow and Sebby about stuff not showing up in C-side levels:

The B-side levels apply basically everything you learned in the A-side equivalent to create harder challenges. But the C-side levels tend to only use a selection of objects and gimmicks that are more appropriate for an ultra challenge with a more consistent experience. This would be why you don't see Theo or eye monsters in 5C and Badeline in 6C - they're less predictable. Oshiro in 3C is a bit of an outlier on this.

And 3C isn't that bad if you would just aim for the man instead of running away from him

BTW I made a picture guide for the last part of 7C. You can look at it piecemeal if you want.
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Re: Celeste - Kangchenjunga

Postby Cyril » 1 year ago

badeline is super duper predictable tbh, moreso than oshiro. the soil erosion monsters are functionally rng though yeah

i think pretty much every bit of the last room of 7C is self-explanatory, just that you have to build the muscle memory and timing to be able to clear it

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Re: Celeste - K2

Postby FPzero » 1 year ago

I don't know if you've already recorded the next episode, but if not... With that part in the spike gauntlet, I find that the diagonal dash is way less reliable than the horizontal one. It all comes down to understanding the length of your dashes. If you dash up the middle of the vertical part right before it, you should be able to dash to the right and clear it without hitting the spike wall if you immediately start holding left during your dash, as if you were doing a U-turn. Every time you died to the spikes on the other side of the horizontal dash, it was because you were starting the dash from the right side of the vertical shaft. As we've seen, the diagonal works but there are so many more opportunities for death because of the little repositioning and slight timing variances you have to try and get right all in a split second.

Give the horizontal dash another shot, and see if you can get yourself in the center of that vertical shaft more often. If you can do that, I think you'll be able to get through that section with much more consistency.

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Re: Celeste - K2

Postby Cyril » 1 year ago

yeah, my method is the same as fpzero, just position yourself in the up-dash column so that you're far enough left you don't ram into the spikes at the right
you can also try and position yourself when you are first entering the gauntlet, there is enough let there to start further to the left with your second right dash & that usually lines you up pretty well
i disagree that the hardest part is right at the end because in my experience the parts with stricter timing are all in the first half of the screen, but it's a bit tough to figure out that one spot you were having trouble with for sure & probably the only bit of the level i don't quite like the design of
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ano0maly
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Re: Celeste - K2

Postby ano0maly » 1 year ago

Good job today.

I think it would also help to try to be a little higher before that part we're talking about, so that you have more time to turn left.
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