Celeste - Everest

[Zach808]

I don't like this level. It gives me post-traumatic flashbacks of SMB3 note blocks. :(

[BobisOnlyBob]

While I loathe pink clouds, I still love this level. I will admit the entire time I was playing it I was thinking about how raocow would get on with it. I expected both better and worse!

[Alice]

They're both in Canada

I'm aware? I kinda thought it was pretty clear that I was mostly just joking, what with the whole lobbying bit.

Honestly though, keyboard is good for this game since you need 8 separate directions to dash and it helps to not mix up diagonals with horizontals.

I disagree. It depends entirely on the type of controller. raocow may have a better time using something like what I use since it has four separate directional buttons instead of a circle pad or proper d-pad:

Same basic premise as a keyboard layout except since the buttons are smaller and intended to be used with a single finger it's easier to purposefully hit diagonals as opposed to a keyboard. (But it's significantly more difficult to accidentally do so.)

[Crow]

This level is one of my favs btw, I used to have trouble with the clouds but you get used to them, and besides that and one mechanic that only shows up towards the end of the level pretty much all the mechanics here feel really consistent and good. I was actually able to get the golden strawberry in this level (and its b-side) because of how well everything works & the atmosphere is great too

[FPzero]

As has been mentioned in the comments, the wind wall room is actually significantly easier if you realize that you can use the fast wind to one-wall walljump up the wall without losing any stamina. That's the trick the card at the start was telling you about actually: If you walljump off something, you don't lose any stamina. But if you grip a wall and then jump off, you will lose a little bit. By gripping the wall and jumping up it, you were actually draining your stamina like crazy. I think the intent behind the strawberry there is to walljump up without losing stamina, stop, then dash over to the unspiked wall next to the strawberry and time the wind turning back on so you can jump around and collect the strawberry while being pushed back to safety.

The "no stamina lost on walljump" thing is probably something you'll want to try and keep in mind as the game goes on because it can make some seemingly impossible situations possible.

[warpio]

People might complain, but to me this definitely seems like something where the backseating in the previous post is justified. Ending the video on a very sour note like that due to misunderstanding something crucial to the game physics and stubbornly thinking the much harder way that he did it was the intended way... that kinda stuff is just way too painful to watch without saying something.

[Chirei]

even when things get tough, you have to B strong

[Crow]

yeah watching the vid both picking the wrong path and having so much trouble with that strawberry are more on you than anything, you were just being really stubborn trying to do things a weird/wrong way without trying to find a better way

as the game itself puts it

[Grounder]

even when things get tough, you have to B strong

zero looks more annoyed than x does

guess he feels bad about it

[Sebby19]

Now you're using bribes to get people to switch to keyboard? That's low, Sebby. Next thing we know you're going to be lobbying Congress to get controllers banned.

This made my smirk.

Though I will admit it's hard to tell when your joking, and hard to tell when you know I'm joking. A winky face by the 'that's low' part would made things clearer.

[FPzero]

People might complain, but to me this definitely seems like something where the backseating in the previous post is justified. Ending the video on a very sour note like that due to misunderstanding something crucial to the game physics and stubbornly thinking the much harder way that he did it was the intended way... that kinda stuff is just way too painful to watch without saying something.

Yeah I debated even making the post because this game is the sort of game where discovering mechanics and the like are things that should be found naturally. When I played it, half of the love I have the game came from slowly discovering just how much I was able to do in one sequence of moves, or from learning the intricacies of movement. I just felt like this was one instance where I should say something because of how much apparent frustration there was at the end of the video and how it seemed to be caused by a misunderstanding of mechanics.

This isn't anything you're asking me to do, but personally I'll try and refrain from explanations like this in the future because as I said half the fun in this game is self-discovery.

[Alice]

Though I will admit it's hard to tell when your joking, and hard to tell when you know I'm joking. A winky face by the 'that's low' part would made things clearer.

Yeah, I'll keep it in mind next time. I'd thought the lobbying bit would make it clear since it was a fairly absurd strawman but it seems that it wasn't as clear as I thought it would be.

For future reference, even if it's an opinion where you know my actual opinion is being voiced but the post itself is ridiculous then it's a fairly safe bet that I am actually joking despite voicing my actual opinion.

[ano0maly]

Obviously I know it was a joke, but I do think it's a bit jarring when I see unfitting usage of US-centric terms in a global place like this, even for someone living in the US. I just felt that even as a joke lobbying US Congress isn't relevant here when the poster, the LPer and even the game itself are all situated in Canada.

As for the controller, I don't use one that often nowadays just due to current circumstances, not necessarily because keyboard is better in a given situation. But I do prefer having multiple fingers available for separate keys instead of using 4-6 just to hold a controller.

Yeah I debated even making the post because this game is the sort of game where discovering mechanics and the like are things that should be found naturally.

I think your explanation is fine since this is something the game tells you at the beginning of the video and you're just elaborating on it, and as you and warpio said, the player was frustrated.

The fact that you wouldn't use stamina when you jump away from the wall is consistent with the fact that you can still jump away when you're out of stamina, so that may help understand how this all works. And I think it's a smart design when combined with the fact that jumping away pushes you far away enough that you normally can't get back on the wall at a higher spot. If you could, the player would just bypass the stamina system and use that to ascend. But there are certain exceptions, like when you could wall-jump between two walls, or if there's a wind or obstruction that cuts short your push away from the wall. This mechanic was used in the Pico-8 version of the game, too.

Also, some of the video comments were saying that wind affects your stamina drain? Is that true?

[Alice]

raocow, why would you think that the room which is completely out of the way is progress? Those cloud platforms lead up and to the right and there's no guarantee you'd even see that you can go up and to the left instead.

Obviously I know it was a joke, but I do think it's a bit jarring when I see unfitting usage of US-centric terms in a global place like this, even for someone living in the US. I just felt that even as a joke lobbying US Congress isn't relevant here when the poster, the LPer and even the game itself are all situated in Canada.

I guess it wouldn't be obvious that I knew Sebby was Canadian but the fact they're both Canadian and not US American was part of my reasoning for it being fairly clear I was joking.

[Giik]

Also, some of the video comments were saying that wind affects your stamina drain? Is that true?

AFAIK no. I think his stamina draining faster was because he was constantly jumping up the wall (which uses a burst of stamina, indicated by the giant sweat drops).

[10204307]

The fact that you wouldn't use stamina when you jump away from the wall is consistent with the fact that you can still jump away when you're out of stamina, so that may help understand how this all works. And I think it's a smart design when combined with the fact that jumping away pushes you far away enough that you normally can't get back on the wall at a higher spot. If you could, the player would just bypass the stamina system and use that to ascend.

Well, the thing about walljumping in Celeste is that how far you go when you jump off a wall depends on what you're doing with the controls. If you're moving in the direction of the wall when you jump off, you get pushed further, meaning you inevitably lose height. However, if you're not pressing any movement direction, you get pushed only a little bit, allowing you to quickly regain contact with the wall if you move back in the direction of the wall a split second after you jump off.

[Lostsoldier20]

Is it just me, or does anyone think that once raocow finally gets to B-sides, he's going to have WAY more issues with the clouds than the wind?

[FPzero]

So, today's moving block mechanic... I honestly think this is one of the best examples of teaching a mechanic I've seen in a game in a long time. There are no button hints, no text box explaining what to do--it's all on the player to discover that they can move those blocks on their own. But the discovery doesn't have to be random, like how raocow discovered it. I think the game intends the following:

When you enter the Shrine area, the first block you see if movable. But the player has no reason to attempt to push or pull the block because why would that be something you can do? It's not really a logical progression in my mind. So I know when I first got to that point I rode the block up, but continued going upwards, noticing that there were side paths that seemed inaccessible. The block at 12:10 is the block that teaches the whole concept. There's a low hanging ceiling along the block's path. The block itself won't hit it, but Maddy will unless she ducks. The sides of the block are also covered in spikes, meaning you can't cling to them and avoid the ceiling. You must ride the block, and you must duck to avoid being pushed off. So when the player goes to ride the block, they press and hold Down to duck under the low ceiling, and, suddenly, the block will move downwards instead.

Instantly, the player now knows that these blocks can be moved, though they may not immediately realize what the tell for a movable block is. Thankfully, this area is designed as a sort of playground in which they can learn what causes the blocks to move. Additionally, in order to leave it, the player must both Pull and Push the block in the main room, teaching them that you can move the block in multiple directions while clinging on to one side. The mechanic now taught, the player leaves the central room for the main path, and can progress through newer more challenging setups that require you to pull and push blocks through narrow passages, and more.

I absolutely love how this mechanic is taught. It relies entirely on the player discovering everything about it on their own, but provides the right pieces of level design to guide them into learning it.

[Chirei]

[Crow]

raocow, a good point of advice is to never go the way that visibly has no way back from it until last

[tirakai]

I wonder if there's many people who come across that white block and have no idea what to do. We all kind of assume here the big Mario secrets are common knowledge (since everyone here knows them with how much mario romhacks and such we've watched/played/made) but it must seem so random to someone who doesn't, I can't imagine it being something you could figure out on your own.

[Filbi]

I wonder if there's many people who come across that white block and have no idea what to do. We all kind of assume here the big Mario secrets are common knowledge (since everyone here knows them with how much mario romhacks and such we've watched/played/made) but it must seem so random to someone who doesn't, I can't imagine it being something you could figure out on your own.

To be fair, it wasn't common knowledge when SMB3 first came out, and people figured it out back then anyway. (Granted it might have been thanks to the Nintendo Power guide books - I dunno.)

Pretty sure the reason Maddy couldn't enter that outhouse was because X and/or Zero were already using it.

[10204307]

I wonder if there's many people who come across that white block and have no idea what to do. We all kind of assume here the big Mario secrets are common knowledge (since everyone here knows them with how much mario romhacks and such we've watched/played/made) but it must seem so random to someone who doesn't, I can't imagine it being something you could figure out on your own.

I never played Mario 3, so I had to use a guide to figure out how to do it. I mean, I recognized it as a Mario-like object but I had no idea you could just hold down on top of it to go behind it.

[SAJewers]

Yeah, I suspect there might be quite a few few people who never played, let alone seen Mario 3.

[Sebby19]

OH MY GOSH! WE'RE OLD!