Celeste - Everest

[raocow]

haha, yeah

[Alice]

Yeah, I suspect there might be quite a few few people who never played, let alone seen Mario 3.

Those people suck and they should feel bad.

[Ivy]

mario 3 is going to be on switch "virtual console" iirc, so that'll be nice.

[Zach808]

I suspect that the number of people who haven't played Mario 3 isn't as high as we might think. The game did sell almost 20 million copies even without even being bundled with the NES. And that's not even considering all the re-releases since then. Not to mention everyone and their mother who first played the game on the Wii (Guilty...).

Besides, this is a 2D indie platformer which has a bunch of 8-bit stuff in it. There's probably a ton of overlap between those who have played this and Mario 3.

[SAJewers]

You're underestimating the number of 10 year olds who didn't own a wii.

[Leet]

This particular point hardly seems relevant

[FPzero]

The bigger question is "should the heart be hidden behind something like this?" While it's a well-known reference, it's still an outside reference in a game where pretty much nothing else is. Cute as it is, the fact remains that if you don't know what it's referencing and what to do, there's not a great chance that you'll discover the answer from just trying things. You'd probably have to look it up, which is a bad thing when playing since it's breaking your flow.

I like the reference, I like the inclusion and how it's used to get the heart. But it's still something to question nonetheless.

[Chirei]

I would just put one of those books in another b-side, giving a hint in the form of an excerpt or something about someone ducking for cover behind a white block. That way, the "penalty" for not having played mario 3 is "find another crystal heart first". Instead of giving up and looking it up on the internet.

[Sugar]

Do you seriously want raocow to switch to the keyboard? Seems like a bad idea.

[Giik]

I love the wind in this level, cause it specifically tries to avoid the annoying "haha we're pushing you off a ledge" difficulty and more just trying to change your mental pathfinding to match the new speed limits.

[10204307]

That strawberry raocow missed at the end of the Old Trail is the entire reason why I missed out on getting the full clear for Chapter 4. Super rude!

I really like this level, though. It's very pretty and the music gives it a wonderful sense of atmosphere, and the wind is actually really fun. (And is somehow even more fun in the B-side!)

[tirakai]

As you saw from the last strawberry you don't need to finish the screen to get a strawberry, it's fine to just drop back down to save it if that's easier so that you don't have to keep getting the strawberry again every time you mess up.

[Nao]

You'll get used to the stamina mechanic eventually, but yes, there's going to be a lot of focus on it. I think it's impressive they managed to make this mechanic easy to learn, hard to master like any other mechanic in the game, it's something I haven't seen done with a mechanic like this before in a game.

[Chirei]

always bring a climbing hook

[Crow]

comment on the above strawberry, you have enough space on the wall above the doorbell to just hang out while the platform you ride explodes, then you can just jump to the other side of the block below right after touching the doorbell & ride it on over & just jump off before it reaches the spikes. it's way less of a thing than raocow was making it, naturally

i recommend trying new approaches if the one you're pounding your head against feels unreasonable, because the game is gonna start punishing you hard for playing stubbornly when you get to the b-sides

also i really dislike the first strawberry in this section because i have genuinely no clue what the "intended" (deathless) way of doing it is. even speedruns do it the way raocow did it here. that's the only way i've ever been able to do it. it's puzzling, to say the least.

also i can't believe i'm gonna defend stamina but you're doing really dumb things like at 15:40 where you were trying to rush ahead by jumping (tip: jumping straight up loses MORE stamina than climbing that same distance. the technique someone described to jump up walls without losing stamina is called neutral jumping, is very unintuitive, and is never required in normal gameplay.) i think you're only getting frustrated with the stamina here because you don't have a good grasp on how it drains yet, and oh boy are some rooms in the b-sides gonna give you a bad time if you don't figure it out at some point

[Lostsoldier20]

As you saw from the last strawberry you don't need to finish the screen to get a strawberry, it's fine to just drop back down to save it if that's easier so that you don't have to keep getting the strawberry again every time you mess up.

It's also super mean in two ways. For one, you may be afraid to go back down because there's not exactly a lot of land below.

For two, if you take the secret path first, this is the first time that I can remember, that the secret path takes you ahead in the level, with no way back.

Also... raocow... think of the clouds as the stoplight platforms in level 1. You seem to be having problems... for the whole 1 cloud this episode had. So it could be misleading. Possibly also make me eat my words that the wind will give you less issues.

also i really dislike the first strawberry in this section because i have genuinely no clue what the "intended" (deathless) way of doing it is. even speedruns do it the way raocow did it here. that's the only way i've ever been able to do it. it's puzzling, to say the least

Megaman X up the left wall and dash back to the right. It's tight, but doable. https://youtu.be/WjvqoArv3Ok?t=1h6m24s

[ano0maly]

I got stuck on this screen for some time because of the cloud. I wasn't yet aware that you can bounce higher from the cloud - I previously tried holding jump button while landing on the cloud and it didn't do anything different from just bouncing on it, and I somehow didn't think to time the jump button with the cloud bounce. It's because I was able to get all the way to this point with just the default bounce, but here suddenly I can't progress until I realize this. If there was a point early in the chapter that required the higher bounce to proceed, I would've found out sooner.

I was told elsewhere that basically you need to jump at the apex of what's boosting you and not during the boost for the best effect. (It doesn't mean after you left the cloud completely, but when you're leaving it.) This becomes important in the future, too.

[Crow]

yeah there are a few points in the b-side where you just have to, master that bounce to be able to get past some obstacles, it is definitely not the best mechanic but it's pretty consistent once you understand it

[10204307]

All of the types of moving platform in Celeste (except for the black ones in Chapter 4, if only because they don't move fast enough) basically function similarly to the moving platforms from the first level. If you jump at the very end of their movement, Madeline gets launched in whatever direction the platform was moving in. This holds true for every level in the game, and serves as the basis for a lot of the challenges you face along the way, especially in the B-sides.

So if you think about the clouds as being similar to the platforms from the first level, it becomes fairly easy to get that high jump every time. It just requires a little patience- you don't want to jump off right away.

[warpio]

I'm starting to think maybe playing the B-side levels as soon as they're unlocked is probably a better way to play through the game. The B-sides expand on the mechanics and level design gimmicks that were introduced in their respective A-side, and they do a much better job of forcing the player to get a better understanding of how all the game mechanics work... Whereas the A-side levels tend to have more than 1 way to get through everything so they allow you to hold onto your false assumptions and misunderstandings a lot longer. I think each A-side level introduces enough new ideas that the difficulty curve is still somewhat balanced even if you do a 1A->1B->2A->2B etc playthrough.

The people trying to coach him through the comments seems like it's only adding to the confusion rather than helping, when really all he needs to do is play the B-sides... But I guess the decision has already been made so we just have to deal with the frustration of raocow not getting certain things all throughout the A side levels lol.

[Stink Terios]

Yeah, not alternating A>B>A>B was certainly a mistake. The game flows much better that way.

[10204307]

I don't think there's a wrong order to play Celeste in, per se. The A-sides all use the mechanics in enough different ways that I feel like you have to pick up at least some understanding of how they work by the end, especially if you want to get all of the collectibles.

Nonetheless, the good thing about Celeste is that it gives you full control over what order you want to play the B-sides in (if you want to at all), so raocow could technically do a B-side after Chapter 4A if he was so inclined. In my first playthrough of the game, I did the B-sides for Chapters 1-5 after I beat 5A, and then alternated between the two for the rest of the game.

My only concern is that doing all of the B-sides in a row might become kind of exhausting, especially considering all of the extra editing work raocow has to put in. Of course, not all of the B-sides are equally hard, and the overall difficulty curve is kind of nebulous- many people (myself included) would rank 3B as being one of the hardest B-sides, for example.

[Crow]

I don't understand how playing 4B after 4A would help raocow struggle less with 4A :V

[FPzero]

I played all A-sides first, then the B-sides and I think that was a good way to experience it since B-1 is about on par with the difficulty of some of the last chapters. Alternating seems like it'd make for a weird series of difficulty spikes in that coming back to the A-sides would just feel way easier in comparison.

Then again I also missed out on a bunch of things as I played the A-sides including some of the tapes, and I didn't go back for stuff I missed until beating the game so I wouldn't have been able to alternate anyway.

[Blivsey]

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