Page 240 of 282

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 15:29
by Ashan
Mineyl wrote: Worst thing about the gotcha' on Wily 3 there is when you don't realize that you can put on Jewel Satellite to kill the enemy after it's attached to you, prompting you to try to PERFECTLY line yourself up with the ladder and the spikes on every one of your first several playthroughs of the stage. That TOTALLY didn't happen to me. Nope. :oops:
It's really not that hard. As raocow pointed out in the video, the momentum is very logical. 1 shot to the right will be cancelled out by 1 shot to the left. If you do 2 shots to the right, a shot to the left will slow you down to the speed of 1 shot, and another will stop your moment. I believe there's a max speed of 3 consecutive shots in one direction.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 15:48
by Mineyl
Yeah, I know. I was just recounting my first experiences with it, since first experiences tend to be the framework of raocow's videos. I've been through there plenty of times, believe me!

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 16:03
by AuraLancer
Wily 2 is the reason that I label MM9 as *almost* perfect. Just because older games have those jumps doesn't mean they were a good idea!

Also, that gotcha trap is hilarious, but I wouldn't consider it bad unless it was set at the ladder.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 16:12
by FourteenthOrder
Paragraph wrote: It actually does have one reason to be there: if you trigger it from the moment you go into the screen, it will carry you into the M-Tank instead of spikes. I don't know if it's actually possible to get the M-Tank without its help.
It is, I got that M-Tank in my playing for the first time recently and didn't realize this was the intended method ^^;

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 21:54
by Shard1697
I've never seen that grabber guy before, I always just stopped right at the ladder.
Weren't they a different color in galaxy man's stage?

Devil bosses are annoying because I actually really really like doing their patterns(most of them anyways, this one included) but the damage is just too sparse.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retrobot Robot

Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 21:56
by Awoo
Shard1697 wrote: Weren't they a different color in galaxy man's stage?
Probably! Pseudo-palette limitations, because RETRO

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 03:49
by Heavy Sigh
The weakness chain in MM9 makes perfect sense!

You cant sing if bees are stinging your face.
Concrete cant set properly when lasers are hitting it.
ufos cant fly with concrete shoes.
the light of shiny diamonds cant escape black holes.
diamonds arent conductive.
electric beats flying type.
its hard to light a fire on a windy day.
fire makes smoke which knocks out insects.

See? Perfect Sense!

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 04:00
by Grounder
Untitled.png
Untitled.png (5.12 KiB) Viewed 550 times

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 04:07
by Cyril
mega man is incredibly intelligent

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 04:39
by Mineyl
So Wily's kind of a pain to dodge, but he's a lot more manageable if you use Black Hole Bombs or Tornado Blows to erase his projectiles, as raocow demonstrated a bit on the second phase. While it's nice there, depending on the spawn patterns in phase 3, you pretty much NEED to abuse these to keep from getting tagged by one of the projectiles when going for a no damage clear.

Well, that's Megaman 9! Yeah, it has its bad moments, but I was so psyched for this game when they announced it. It tickled me in the nostalgia in the way nothing really has before or since. To be honest, though, even though Megaman 9 seems to generally be more well-liked by the populace, I think Megaman 10 is better: worse weapons and perhaps a less memorable OST, but better everything else.

Oh, and now that we've got spoilers out of the way (lawl), I gotta' dump this in the thread:


Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 04:49
by Alice
Kilgamayan wrote: I appreciate and sympathize with the fact that the gotcha trap is poor design but goddamn if it wasn't funny as hell to watch. I somehow never triggered that guy any of the times I played this game so I had no clue it was coming.
Honestly it was one of the funniest things I've seen all day. I've never played this stage (I never made it past the previous stage due to that one bullshit jump that gave raocow a fair bit of trouble) so I wasn't expecting it at all. Though I'd have laughed at how much of an unexpected dick move it was even if it'd happened to me personally too.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 05:41
by Super Llama
My opinion on Mega Man 9 is that it's still an alright game, but I hate all the ways it clearly hamstrings itself from a design perspective just to look more retro. Even ignoring the lack of a slide and charge shot, there's a good reason later games added a quick weapon change command, or made it so you don't have to scroll through several lines of text to purchase individual items in the shop, and I liked it when bosses had more varied movesets and desperation attacks and the like, instead of just the same 1 or 2 attacks that they cycle through over and over again.

What I'm saying is that Shovel Knight is a better retro throwback Mega Man-style game.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 06:59
by Bean
Mineyl wrote: To be honest, though, even though Megaman 9 seems to generally be more well-liked by the populace, I think Megaman 10 is better: worse weapons and perhaps a less memorable OST, but better everything else.
Yes. You get it, although I do like the overall soundtrack more.

Wily Machine 9 / Capsule Info: First phase isn't weak to anything, but Magma Bazooka gives you a better chance to hit them. I think Laser Trident does, too, but I usually just go buster only for that part. Second is weak to Concrete Shot. Capsule goes down to the Plug Ball, and I absolutely get bummed by the fact that this game literally has no Wily defeated theme. The same stage clear song plays for it. Kind of silly.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 09:24
by Paragraph
Fucking hate this final level. It's a needlessly cruel gauntlet that just keeps escalating for no good reason, and it doesn't even have RETRO to justify how excessive it is.

First of all, making you waste a bunch of Concrete Shot is simply mean, because it guarantees that you will be either halfway out for the second phase of the Wily Machine, having juuust enough to kill it with its weakness, or fully out because you decided to speed up Galaxy Man's boring fight. The tiny level even existing at this stage is a weird amalgamation of previous concepts; there was of course the iconic "shit drops off the ceiling" level in MM2's second skull, there was a mini-stage before the final Wily fights in MM5 - but both of those were after a separate refight level, not in it.

In fact, even MM2 had two bosses after the refights, yes, but the third "phase" and true final boss was in a separate level. MM3 has a level transition after the refights (the best way to do it!). MM5 has a relatively simple single-phase fight after the refights, then transitions to the level I mentioned above. There is no "retro" justification for having refights and THEN three bosses back-to-back; it's simply Inti having a boner for absurdly long final levels, and I hate that, even in my favorite baby Zero 2 it sucks and is always such a giant time investment just to DO.

In a game with extra lives, it's just cruel. Having to redo all the refights just because you lost a life in them, then once to each of the final boss phases as you learn them, is stupid. Refights are garbage anyway with the only justification for them being "look how effortless you can cream them now that you have all the weapons", but being forced to do them again over and over while you learn the final boss loses even that argument.

Take eternal champion of retro game design Shovel Knight again - it doesn't have extra lives but they still don't use it as a justification to make their final stretch last forever. Even the final boss just has two phases. THANK you, Yacht Club.

You might have noticed that I conveniently left out MM4 in the above example list. That's because MM4 has the final bosses directly after the refights, and it fucking sucks and it's why I finished it last out of all the classics. Yes, even after MM1, because that game's final level is stupid, but at least mercifully short and very learnable.


To top all of this nonsense off, I really hate that the Wily Capsule is "iconic" now because it is a trash concept from the very first iteration on, I hate it almost as much as I hate devils. And this one even has the MM7 shots because everybody just LOVED those, right? I'm also absurdly bad at dodging the other attack, unlike raocow, but he has years of experience dodging bullet hell nonsense in platformers, of course he can do that effortlessly. Well, I can't. I didn't stock up on E-Tanks, used one against the shark machine, and just couldn't do it; I had to restart the entire fortress just to shop because of Inti's idiotic decision to lock you into it.

Oh, and one other thing? While MM4 invented the Wily Capsule as one of its main contributions to the series (and a big fuck you to it for that), it also invented the Mega Buster that was conveniently left out. You know what's great? Having a single big shot for the few times you can actually hit the capsule, instead of having to dance around its attacks while desperately trying to squeeze more than a single lemon in. The charge is PERFECT for the capsule, and it's therefore hilariously stupid and misguided to include a capsule in a game without the buster.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 11:27
by Voltgloss
Paragraph wrote: Oh, and one other thing? While MM4 invented the Wily Capsule as one of its main contributions to the series (and a big fuck you to it for that), it also invented the Mega Buster that was conveniently left out. You know what's great? Having a single big shot for the few times you can actually hit the capsule, instead of having to dance around its attacks while desperately trying to squeeze more than a single lemon in. The charge is PERFECT for the capsule, and it's therefore hilariously stupid and misguided to include a capsule in a game without the buster.
MM4 at least had the decency to make the capsule weak to the one weapon that could shoot up/at an upwards angle AND could itself be charged - I.e., something that could easily hit the capsule. MM5 and MM6 capsules were similarly weak to easily used weapons (a homing weapon and an upwards-arcing weapon, respectively). It wasn't until MM7 (hard-to-aim bouncy weapon) and MM8 (melee weapon) that the "capsule is weak to something awkward for hitting it" trope came into play.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 15:29
by Leet
Well you guys were right everyone, that ending was a very thorough demonstration of wily's evil and light's goodness that totally acknowledged the problems of a society with mandated murder dates of minorities. Hahahahaha stop making bad faith arguments on the internet

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 17:16
by Voltgloss
Leet wrote: Well you guys were right everyone, that ending was a very thorough demonstration of wily's evil and light's goodness that totally acknowledged the problems of a society with mandated murder dates of minorities. Hahahahaha stop making bad faith arguments on the internet
I was legit surprised that the ending seemed to completely ignore the expiration date plotline. Especially as I had a memory of "Dr. Light stood up for the expired robots" or something like that being part of the ending.

After some source-checking, seems I was remembering this line from the Mega Man Knowledge Base wiki: "In the end, Light was released from prison. He then found useful purposes for all of the Robot Masters he had designed, which had reached their expiration dates." Which... I guess is one way to interpret the scenes shown during the end? But if that was the intent, the game was super oblique about it. And I couldn't find any actual authoritative source to clarify the issue.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 17:29
by Paragraph
Five minutes after the ending pictures were taken, the actual police busts down Light's door, informs him that the records show that those 8 robots have outlived their expiration date and thus need to be scrapped. Light has to watch, sobbing, as they mercilessly blast them apart with laser fire. Mega just stands by, nodding; it's what has to be done. He checks his own expiration date just to be sure that he doesn't need to report himself right here and now.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retrobox Robo Robot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 17:31
by Awoo
Voltgloss wrote:
Leet wrote: Well you guys were right everyone, that ending was a very thorough demonstration of wily's evil and light's goodness that totally acknowledged the problems of a society with mandated murder dates of minorities. Hahahahaha stop making bad faith arguments on the internet
I was legit surprised that the ending seemed to completely ignore the expiration date plotline. Especially as I had a memory of "Dr. Light stood up for the expired robots" or something like that being part of the ending.

After some source-checking, seems I was remembering this line from the Mega Man Knowledge Base wiki: "In the end, Light was released from prison. He then found useful purposes for all of the Robot Masters he had designed, which had reached their expiration dates." Which... I guess is one way to interpret the scenes shown during the end? But if that was the intent, the game was super oblique about it. And I couldn't find any actual authoritative source to clarify the issue.
If there's one thing the Mega Men games have ever been notable for, it's their super coherent and sensible story lines that should win Pulitzer Prizes nyoro~n

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 17:35
by Cyril
Mega Man has been committing expiration date fraud for over a decade and thus has joined Yoshi in the league of Video Game Characters Who Are Hardened Criminals

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 17:53
by Grounder
Justice Man did nothing wrong.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 18:10
by Dragon Fogel
If you haven't figured it out or been told yet, raocow: the extra stage is in the "Challenges" section, under Time Attack. The setup for 9 and 10 is a little weird because it's a mix of things that were in the original versions and new stuff specifically set up for the Legacy Collection.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 19:24
by Super Llama
Mineyl wrote: To be honest, though, even though Megaman 9 seems to generally be more well-liked by the populace, I think Megaman 10 is better: worse weapons and perhaps a less memorable OST, but better everything else.
Mega Man 10 is a better overall package, but it also has, in my opinion, the single biggest Idiot Plot out of any Mega Man game I've ever played.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 19:44
by Voltgloss
Super Llama wrote: Mega Man 10 is a better overall package, but it also has, in my opinion, the single biggest Idiot Plot out of any Mega Man game I've ever played.

Re: Mega Man 9 - Retro Reboot

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 19:54
by Super Llama
Voltgloss wrote:
Super Llama wrote: Mega Man 10 is a better overall package, but it also has, in my opinion, the single biggest Idiot Plot out of any Mega Man game I've ever played.
Honestly I don't even mind the Roboenza angle. But it's the only Mega Man game where even WILY is an idiot.