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Mega Man - We're Here Forever!

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Re: Mega Man 11 - Gearing Up for the Finale

Post by Zummorr »

Christopher Lloyd wrote: 4 years ago
I know. My issue was solely with Zum calling them even worse.
So have you ever played Sonic 06, or Sonic and the Black Knight, or Sonic and the Secret Rings. I've finished all three.
Just saying, my opinion is not unfounded.

All three of those are glitchy messes.

Yeah, Sonic 06 has incredibly awful loading issues. Sonic 06 probably has the worst section of any sonic game ever (Playing Golf as Silver or That Tornado carrying a car.)
But even with that, I had a better experience with 06 than Secret Rings. Black knight is probably about on par with sonic 06. The Story Book Sonic games both commit a major sin of putting together motion controls with precise timing though. But Secret Ring controls are just incredulously bad.
It's probably just due to my preference for actual 3-D movement instead of being railroaded into cacti, or evil trees that governs this preference.

I explained why Secret Rings is the worst on a stream a while back.
Christopher Lloyd wrote: Black Knight probably has the best story out of a Sonic game.
Clearly, it's the best Isekai story.
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Re: Mega Man 11 - Gearing Up for the Finale

Post by Shard1697 »

Alice wrote: 4 years ago Gross, next one is a pass for me. The only thing more overrated than Sonic is Final Fantasy 7 which is saying a lot since Final Fantasy 7 is basically the most overrated thing ever.
people shittalk sonic like 10x more than they talk positively about it
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Piece For Now

Post by Awoo »

So, any chance we could have an "All the Sonic's" thread? Seems like we could really use one already and I don't feel qualified to host it :ehh:
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Piece For Now

Post by Bean »

Awoo wrote: 4 years ago So, any chance we could have an "All the Sonic's" thread? Seems like we could really use one already and I don't feel qualified to host it :ehh:
I had been talking about it on the one talkhaus Discord and thought about running that one, too. Well, once it gets started up anyway.
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Re: All the Sonics

Post by Awoo »

Bean wrote: 4 years ago
Awoo wrote: 4 years ago So, any chance we could have an "All the Sonic's" thread? Seems like we could really use one already and I don't feel qualified to host it :ehh:
I had been talking about it on the one talkhaus Discord and thought about running that one, too. Well, once it gets started up anyway.
Maybe have it with a few placeholders but not sticky it yet? Most of this thread has basically become nothing but Sonic posting since ATMM tentatively ended yesterday.

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Re: Mega Man 11 - Gearing Up for the Finale

Post by Grounder »

Zummorr wrote: 4 years ago
Christopher Lloyd wrote: 4 years ago
I know. My issue was solely with Zum calling them even worse.
So have you ever played Sonic 06, or Sonic and the Black Knight, or Sonic and the Secret Rings. I've finished all three.
Just saying, my opinion is not unfounded.

All three of those are glitchy messes.
Played some of 06, beat both Storybooks. In my opinion, you're comparing a pair of messy bedrooms with a landfill.
Why don't you eat me?

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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Bean »

Ah, if Grounder wants it, that's fine with me. I'm honestly not sure if I could handle another two-year thread like that anyway.
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Matt is me »

But can we all agree all three games are worth it for the soundtrack?

'06 has All Hail Shadow, His World, and Dreams of Absolution. Secret Rings has Seven Rings in Hand. Black Knight has Fight the Knight, Knight of the Wind, and With Me.

All of these are bangers and I won't entertain any objections.
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by KobaBeach »



Shard1697 wrote: 4 years ago people shittalk sonic like 10x more than they talk positively about it
I was gonna reply to her post but considering I already started shit in this thread I refrained

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Re: Mega Man 11 - Gearing Up for the Finale

Post by Alice »

Shard1697 wrote: 4 years agopeople shittalk sonic like 10x more than they talk positively about it
That's because there's little positive to say about it. The controls feel clunky, the physics feel like someone took ice physics and decided that those were too lenient, and the game actively encourages you (mostly through its acceleration and how long it takes to slow down) to go as fast as possible and then proceeds to actively penalize you constantly for doing so. They're tedious to play and I legitimately don't understand how anyone could possible enjoy them. Old style Castlevania games play better than Sonic games and those had some control issues themselves.
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Re: Mega Man 11 - Gearing Up for the Finale

Post by Leet »

Alice wrote: 4 years ago
Shard1697 wrote: 4 years agopeople shittalk sonic like 10x more than they talk positively about it
That's because there's little positive to say about it.
the intended context here is you saying they are overrated. if sonic isn't actually that highly-rated by most people, it's not very overrated, is it?
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Mega Man 11 - Gearing Up for the Finale

Post by KobaBeach »

Alice wrote:The controls feel clunky, the physics feel like someone took ice physics and decided that those were too lenient
it's called Momentum

do you get annoyed over the lift inertia in yoshi's island too

Alice wrote:and the game actively encourages you (mostly through its acceleration and how long it takes to slow down) to go as fast as possible and then proceeds to actively penalize you constantly for doing so.
you're meant to go slow and learn the stages first before speedrunning it
it's like an arcade game

you're not meant to be a braindead dumbass and expect the game to play itself for you which ironically is something everyone shits on sonic for so damned if you do damned if you dont

Alice wrote:They're tedious to play and I legitimately don't understand how anyone could possible enjoy them.
because opinions are subjecti- oh wait i forgot only people who don't like sonic can have their opinion matter anyone else is just chris-chan x 1000 and should never be taken seriously or be treated with respect because every sonic fan is a screaming manchild who harasses people on deviantart and jacks off to furries or whatever

like we get it, you don't like sonic. It's Okay To Not Like Sonic. It's Okay To Not Like Video Games
you don't have to act like your opinion is the only one that matters because tbh that's just being a major asshole

I don't like most Zeldas and MMX games you don't see me acting like it's impossible for anyone to like Zelda or MMX because of their lackluster plots (which again, is just my opinion, if you like the plots in Zelda and MMX, you are Valid, i just think the formulaic bullshit is pretty dumb and ruins any sort of gravitas the games could have)

I'm sorry I just cannot stand this performative "i'm woke for not liking x game and if you like x game you're a nostalgia whore with no good taste" that every joe no-name tries to give their two cents about with every single old game ever that wasn't made by Nintendo

I don't even like Sonic much anymore (movie is going to be dreadful, every recent game except Mania is dreadful) but you're just being an elitist prick about your Opinions (because that's what they are, they are Opinions, no one has to agree with them) and that shit pisses me the fuck off
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Re: Mega Man 11 - Gearing Up for the Finale

Post by Alice »

KobaBeach wrote: 4 years agoit's called Momentum

do you get annoyed over the lift inertia in yoshi's island too
You mean the lifts that are only a small part of Yoshi's Island's physics and not the entirety of the gameplay?
you're meant to go slow and learn the stages first before speedrunning it
it's like an arcade game

you're not meant to be a braindead dumbass and expect the game to play itself for you which ironically is something everyone shits on sonic for so damned if you do damned if you dont
So I'm not meant to go fast, which is literally Sonic's gimmick, and I'm intended to play the stages repeatedly until I learn their layouts by heart instead? That sounds uh... Unenjoyable. I'm not a member of the speedrunning community and that's typically the only community that tends to be focused around intimately learning the layouts of game levels.
because opinions are subjecti- oh wait i forgot only people who don't like sonic can have their opinion matter anyone else is just chris-chan x 1000 and should never be taken seriously or be treated with respect because every sonic fan is a screaming manchild who harasses people on deviantart and jacks off to furries or whatever
You're making some wild accusations here but sure, whatever you say. You're talking about treating others with respect when you just jumped straight from 0 to 100 on the disrespect-o-meter.
you don't have to act like your opinion is the only one that matters because tbh that's just being a major asshole
Except the part where I acknowledged others have differing opinions, what with my statement about not being able to understand why they view it differently. The only one here actually acting like an asshole is you with this completely uncalled for hostility. It's like you're taking my criticism of Sonic as a personal attack on you for some reason. I never said "Kobabearch is overrated" fyi, I said Sonic is.
I don't even like Sonic much anymore (movie is going to be dreadful, every recent game except Mania is dreadful) but you're just being an elitist prick about your Opinions (because that's what they are, they are Opinions, no one has to agree with them) and that shit pisses me the fuck off
Except the only person actually acting like a prick here is you. I've explained why I have the views I do. I didn't insult anyone. Ie: Not calling them assholes and pricks. I didn't act like anyone is somehow inferior to me for disagreeing. Literally the only thing remotely controversial would be my stating that I don't understand why so many people think the series is so great when from my point of view it has such glaring and overarching flaws.
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Re: Mega Man 11 - Gearing Up for the Finale

Post by BobisOnlyBob »

Alice wrote: 4 years agothe game actively encourages you (mostly through its acceleration and how long it takes to slow down) to go as fast as possible and then proceeds to actively penalize you constantly for doing so. They're tedious to play and I legitimately don't understand how anyone could possible enjoy them.
It's quite something how much someone who clearly has a good grasp on games broadly can be completely incompatible with specific game types. I get it, I can't stand pre-Iga Castlevania myself and have no patience for classic and much lauded beat-'em-ups. It's just a matter of taste.

The inertial platforming, layered design and heavy emphasis on learning and replaying stages of Sonic does not just have fans though, it has genuinely good game design that's well-analysed and known. And plenty of people who aren't just nostalgic for the games they played as kids picked up Sonic Mania and had a blast with it. The franchise has as many hits as it has misses not because of a problem with its core formula or Poochy-like 90s-era design-by-committee lead, but entirely because Sega doesn't retain the lessons from one game to the next. They don't have an institutional memory.

All that said, remembering the emphasis on layered design and learning does make me mildly concerned for the LP. It's easy to facetank your way through the lower levels of a stage and have an "eh" time, a bit like Cape Flying over whole stages in SMW. The best experience comes from not just Trying To Go Fast and Failing, but from Learning How To Go Fast by managing your speed and staying up high.
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by SAJewers »

Whoever starts the LP thread, if you want raocow's tentitive list of games, I'm sure raocow wouldn't mind if someone shared it with you.

Also, thanks to an outpouring of love and support n the patapon spotzone, it sounds like AtS will start a bit earlier than expected, though research is still needed on some of the latter series games.

(insert patreon plug here)
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Paragraph »

"Only speedrunner replay levels to learn their layouts" is a pretty hot take. I don't think I even have to explain how incredibly wrong this is in any detail considering we just watched two years of a series that to this day has always given you only two extra lives to learn a stage, expecting you to replay said stage with the knowledge gained on the first attempt so you can make it to the boss with lives to spare.
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by CrappyBlueLuigi »

people are gettin defensive with sonic games because they've had to sit through twenty-five years of sonic games being marketed on The Thrill Of Going Fast (when their primary appeals is Look How Smoothly You Can Play When You Know What You're Doing), thirteen years of Sonic Is Bad Now, and six years of Why Did We Even Like Sonic

like, "i legitimately don't understand why people like these games" is the climate. this is not the uncommon, pushed-back opinion. sonic fans get this constantly, and pretty much everywhere. it's kinda... tiring
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Mandew »

CrappyBlueLuigi wrote: 4 years ago like, "i legitimately don't understand why people like these games" is the climate. this is not the uncommon, pushed-back opinion. sonic fans get this constantly, and pretty much everywhere. it's kinda... tiring
imo, when people go as far as to say that something was never good just because of the newer entries did things wrong, it's kinda dumb.

"New Super Mario Bros. was never good"? Tell that to younger me playing the original DS game over and over and having fun with it. Yeah, the original's ideas are way undermined by how unoriginal the newer ones are, but I don't think that's the game's fault at this point. And yeah, if I played NSMB today it would be unexciting and the low framerate/resolution would just make me wish I'd played smw instead. But this is now.

In Sonic's case, saying "Sonic was never good" is to completely dismiss what each game does and where their appeal are. A lot of them are games that are meant to be learned and replayed; kinda like Mega Man, the more you play them, the more fun it becomes. Other ones are made with a spectacle in mind, and ends up being a one-and-done experience. People actually had lots of fun playing a lot of these games; you can't just dismiss that. You can't dismiss the fact that millions of people had a good time.

"i legitimately don't understand why people like these games" is an acceptable statement, though.
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by CrappyBlueLuigi »

Mandew wrote: 4 years ago "i legitimately don't understand why people like these games" is an acceptable statement, though.
yeah, but it has a tone of "i don't like these games and i'm waiting to see someone finally agree with me" when it's a follow up to "gross, i'll pass" in response to a sonic lp being in the works
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Mata Hari »

Have warned a couple of people for their tone in this conversation. Remember this is Sonic the fucking Hedgehog you're talking about here, not War and Peace.

Alice wrote: 4 years agoThey're tedious to play and I legitimately don't understand how anyone could possible enjoy them.
Alice while I don't think you've done anything wrong specifically you really ought to know that the statement 'I don't understand why people like <thing>' - while probably true in a literal sense - does tend to come across as 'other people are wrong for liking <thing>'. The fact that you ought to know that by now does make it feel like you're skirting a line. Next time try to be more like 'I don't personally enjoy <thing>'.
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Kilgamayan »

It could be frustration boiling over at the prospect of an upcoming LP series that could span multiple years that focuses on a series one has no interest whatsoever in watching. Sure, one can simply not watch the videos, but (a) they're going to miss out on whatever new in-jokes are invented throughout the course of the series, (b) there's a limited amount of play time in the day and some of it will now be taken away from theoretically-more-enjoyable things, which could negatively impact the presentation of those videos, and (c) one now has to wait those aforementioned multiple years before the possibility of another more interesting series comes along.

Admittedly, the most obvious/likely explanation is that those posts are just needlessly callous, but I can appreciate some level of frustration, since that first paragraph is one giant projection of my own feelings. <_< I just chose not to say anything like what Alice said because I didn't see a need to be so negative (and because complaining about long-term video content while I'm not a patron feels more entitled than is appropriate).

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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Mata Hari »

I have not watched any of the Mega Man series.

raocow does three daily series simultaneously. Most other LPers only play one game at a time, if they happen to do more they alternate them. Most don't even upload one video a day, let alone three.

so yeah.
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Kilgamayan »

If I wanted the content other LPers produced, I would watch them. I'm here and not anywhere else for a reason. I did mention my own feelings of entitlement, though! <_<;

Independent of the above, I am legitimately sympathetic for however many now-permanent in-jokes the Mega Man videos have created that you have missed, particularly given how catch-phrase-y this community can be.
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Arctangent »

Mata Hari wrote: 4 years ago Have warned a couple of people for their tone in this conversation. Remember this is Sonic the fucking Hedgehog you're talking about here, not War and Peace.
this seems awfully reductionist, much like trying to say "[07:57] Some Twat (Tryndamere): why don't you buy yourself a noose you fuckwad" followed by a string of slurs is "just talking about league of legends" and not a matter on the rampant toxicity in the gaming community as a whole
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Re: All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

Post by Leet »

yeah i'd disagree about "video games dont deserve to be analyzed like a Famouse Booke does", it's just connotation that changes your perception between the two
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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