Mega Man - We're Here Forever!

[Dragon Fogel]

I can't be entirely sure, but I think the reason for the three-hit loss is that some of those hits were dealing damage more than once? It looked like you took more than three hits on a later run, though I wasn't keeping track.

In which case, the main issue here is bad programming.

[Divemissile]

i'm really glad none of the other classic megamans did the "3 hits and ur dead lol" thing ice and elec man have. their projectiles are extremely tough to dodge and capcom decided that touching them 3 times is death because VIDEO GAMES??? all i know is that beating them buster only is one of the least fun things ever

[Ashan]

So how much of this series is gonna be reverse boss order / buster only? Just the games you're familiar with?
At the very least, between today's and tomorrow's videos, we should see the worst of it for the classic series.

[Bean]

I can't be entirely sure, but I think the reason for the three-hit loss is that some of those hits were dealing damage more than once? It looked like you took more than three hits on a later run, though I wasn't keeping track.

Ice Man's attacks actually deal ten bars of damage. There's one other boss that's like that in this game.

[MonkeyShrapnel]

Had this lying around for the occasion

[Paragraph]

The ice man platforms are not ONLY pure RNG and terrible for that, they are also glitchy as all hell. For example, if you land on one the moment it fires, you'll get hit even though you're clearly standing on it. That's what killed you the one time you complained about nothing hitting you.

I was playing Mega Man Powered Up, the PSP remake of this game the other day, and even in the revamped stages they have these platforms, and they're still somehow garbage? Probably not as glitchy but ughhh I hate them. Just a terrible idea that should have been eradicated, or at least be forced into a rigid movement pattern.

[Ditocoaf]

So how much of this series is gonna be reverse boss order / buster only? Just the games you're familiar with?
At the very least, between today's and tomorrow's videos, we should see the worst of it for the classic series.

I don't know about reverse boss order (though that's a fun gimmick), but "buster only" is raocow's style I think. Usually when he plays a megaman-ish game, he treats alternate weapons as weird cheats that should only be used when necessary. And even in non-megaman games, whenever there are multiple weapon choices he seems to prefer getting used to one mainstay weapon over "choose the best thing for each situation" strategy stuff. You can either get frustrated with that, or learn to expect it.

[raekuul]

Per the Snupsters, the reason Footholders suck is because footholders suck.

[Ashan]

So how much of this series is gonna be reverse boss order / buster only? Just the games you're familiar with?
At the very least, between today's and tomorrow's videos, we should see the worst of it for the classic series.

I don't know about reverse boss order (though that's a fun gimmick), but "buster only" is raocow's style I think. Usually when he plays a megaman-ish game, he treats alternate weapons as weird cheats that should only be used when necessary. And even in non-megaman games, whenever there are multiple weapon choices he seems to prefer getting used to one mainstay weapon over "choose the best thing for each situation" strategy stuff. You can either get frustrated with that, or learn to expect it.

Yeah but it might get a bit ridiculous when we get to Rockman & Forte

[Crow]

I mean if cowcao includes that one, but it's not a numbered main series game so

[Ashan]

https://talkhaus.raocow.com/viewtopic.p ... 75#p396779
I kinda inferred from this that he was doing R&F

[SAJewers]

there is a fan translation fyi

[Grounder]

http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2660/

its wonderswan sequel also has one

[SAJewers]

Wonderswan seems pretty easy to emulate too.

EDIT: Though at that point, then we're probably adding in the GG, DOS, and DMG Mega Man games, and whatever other spinoffs

[Ashan]

I own a Wonderswan cause some random dude on Reddit sent me one for literally no reason. I can't remember why, but he just offered to give me his cause he had 2. I sent him my address cause I was like "why the hell not" (note: there are plenty of reasons to not send an internet stranger your address) but then a few weeks later I had a Wonder Swan in the mail. I PMed him and thanked him and I don't think he replied. Never heard from him since.

[BobisOnlyBob]

I own a Wonderswan cause some random dude on Reddit sent me one for literally no reason. I can't remember why, but he just offered to give me his cause he had 2. I sent him my address cause I was like "why the hell not" (note: there are plenty of reasons to not send an internet stranger your address) but then a few weeks later I had a Wonder Swan in the mail. I PMed him and thanked him and I don't think he replied. Never heard from him since.

I've crossed paths with you on reddit a few times, but where the hell are you hanging out that you get free wonderswans??

[Alice]

(note: there are plenty of reasons to not send an internet stranger your address)

What's the worst that could happen?

[Grounder]

(note: there are plenty of reasons to not send an internet stranger your address)

What's the worst that could happen?

[Ashan]

I own a Wonderswan cause some random dude on Reddit sent me one for literally no reason. I can't remember why, but he just offered to give me his cause he had 2. I sent him my address cause I was like "why the hell not" (note: there are plenty of reasons to not send an internet stranger your address) but then a few weeks later I had a Wonder Swan in the mail. I PMed him and thanked him and I don't think he replied. Never heard from him since.

I've crossed paths with you on reddit a few times, but where the hell are you hanging out that you get free wonderswans??

Managed to track down the comment thread where it happened. I was showing off my collection of Battle Network games, and some guy offered.
So I guess I paid shipping for it? I don't recall. Regardless, ridiculously generous of the guy.

[Bean]

I'll take Powered Up's silly stereotypes (minus the Japanese Oil Man) over what we get in some of the other branches' games. Didn't think you'd be playing that one anyway, but I've got to disagree with you on the dialogue comment. It was great in that game.

And good work with Elec Man. The goal's just to shoot him when he throws his hands up or trap him up there like you did. I honestly don't know if there's a legitimate way to fight him. There's only a couple other bosses I can think of that are like that in the whole classic series.

[Ashan]

So here's another buster only trick for Elec Man:


Again, garbage boss that does way too much damage, so cheese him all you want. Didn't know about the trick to get him up on the elevated surface though. Honestly pretty smart.

Also, here's a couple songs infamous for sounding similar to Elec Man's music.




Worth noting Faithfully was released 4 years prior to Mega Man, and with the series' running theme of rock music, it's not too hard to believe there was some inspiration with that riff.
All the Right Friends, on the other hand wasn't even released until 2001, so that's likely just a coincidence.

[Le Neveu de Rameau]

Well then. I was not expecting Elec Man to go down that easily. I suspect that he (and to a lesser extent the Yellow Devil, though at least the latter, unlike Elec Man, has a perfectly learnable pattern) is the primary reason this game has a sort of undeserved reputation for being so much harder than the others (even though I've always personally found 3 to be significantly more difficult than 1). In fact, I'd say the game is actually easier than later installments in many respects; it just suffers from being woefully inconsistent in terms of difficulty, and when it does get hard, it's typically due to cheap tricks like giving the boss a gigantic, difficult-(or a certain heights impossible)-to-dodge weapon which kill you in three shots. The concept of balance, much like level design, seems yet to have been invented.

raocow's strategy was pretty much the same one I always employed, but it went a lot smoother for him than it usually did for me, Elec Man typically escaping his imprisonment at the top of the Guts blocks and charging down to take unrighteous revenge on Mega Man. Of course, it's possible to jump over him and start the cycle anew from there, but usually not without taking a hit first, ideally from contact damage with Elec Man himself rather than his beam (in contrast to most other bosses in the series, whose projectiles are usually to be preferred over colliding with the boss itself).

One does have to wonder what was going through the designer's minds with this boss; Ice Man, at least, seems to have been given a cheap 3-hit-kill due to the fact that he's otherwise fairly pathetic and his pattern woefully simple, but Elec Man, with his high speed and semi-random behavior, would have been reasonably formidable compared to his fellow Robot Masters even with a more reasonable damage output, so his weapon seems overpowered for no real reason. Your one advantage is that he, like Cut Man, takes damage knock-back, but unlike the latter, where it just serves to make him even more pitiful than he already is, in Elec Man's case, this is your only saving grace. Maybe this overpowering was deliberate, though, in order to try to move the player to experiment with boss weapons, as using the Rolling Cutter against Elec Man changes the fight from ridiculous to almost pointlessly trivial. Who knows?

[Ashan]

Maybe this overpowering was deliberate, though, in order to try to move the player to experiment with boss weapons, as using the Rolling Cutter against Elec Man changes the fight from ridiculous to almost pointlessly trivial.

I think this is the best theory. It seems like they were really try to push hard with the rock, paper, scissors thing in the first game, and they did that by making bosses stupid OP so you'll try to use special weapons on them. I really can't imagine anyone in development took the time to do the bosses buster only. Special weapons were probably viewed as keys for progression.

[Paragraph]

Elec Man's stage is probably the biggest one in the game (to the extent that they copied screens wholesale just to make it larger; maybe Cut Man compares, though), has multiple paths you can take, the sole hidden permanent powerup (I know about the other one, yeah) and is therefore meant to be taken at least after one other stage, and quite possibly after many others. I suspect it's the level they started working on, or at least spent the most time on.

It's also important to know, I think, that Elec Man is Inafune's favourite Robot Master design, so he shows up disproportionally in later installments, and it might well have influenced the amount of time, effort and "difficulty" tweaking they spent on him and his stage.

Anyway, that was a fantastic win, raocow. Didn't expect it to go so smoothly, I had a hell of a time back then trying to pull off the buster win. And that was when I still recorded bosses separately with save states!

[SAJewers]

Is there a reason why you're using ROM/Emulator instead of Mega Man Legacy Collection?