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All the Mega Men - Everlasting Peace For Now

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Shard1697
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Shard1697 » 6 months ago

The boss repairing its eye being a good thing because it doesn't actually recover HP and you get to break it again so all it means is you're given another weak point is... extremely wonky

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Bean
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Bean » 6 months ago

Kilgamayan wrote: The spike drop was made to look harder than it actually is by suboptimal gameplay. There's no real way to sugarcoat that.
I platinumed the game and will say that the last drop in the level is deceptively tougher than it looks. You don't have much time to react and absolutely have to make a precision mid-air dash to clear that part without touching the ceiling or floor spikes. That stretch ended multiple runs for me when going for the very tough single segment run in one life goal.

Even in a normal run, you have to remember that the hover mechanic has never been necessary to that point. It's a very tight fit!

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby KobaBeach » 6 months ago

Ashan wrote: kazio
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Kilgamayan wrote: :carolboss:
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Chirei
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Chirei » 6 months ago

Bean wrote: Even in a normal run, you have to remember that the hover mechanic has never been necessary to that point. It's a very tight fit!
I somehow did not even notice this. How did they make Model HX powers so lame

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby ano0maly » 6 months ago

Chirei wrote: A lot of people say that MN9 is alright, but I believe that that's only because they didn't look deep enough and understand just how much of it doesn't even work with itself. It really is a troubled mess, and that's before wrapping it together with all the context.
I wonder what you think of this playthrough by PlayablePassion

Mighty No. 9 Is Good
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Chirei
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Chirei » 6 months ago

ano0maly wrote: I wonder what you think of this playthrough by PlayablePassion

Mighty No. 9 Is Good
So I just got back from work and watched the entirety of episode one from this.

The LPer in question seems to talk from a perspective where they've already done the dive into the game and know how it works, and how to get things going.

Now in a vacuum, there's nothing wrong with their opinion, but they way they come off makes it sound like that they just assume people hate the game because of this bandwagon-like mentality, which is obviously never the case. No group is ever 100% uniform with its ideas or causes.

They're trying to sell people on the gameplay which is understandable, but the moment they started talking about the colored powerups and how absorption/dashing makes the game flow better than any other Mega Man game, I recognized the problem.

There is NO WAY most people would know what say, the colored powerups are on their own unless they do one of two things:

1) Have already found it out by playing the game and trial and errored the effects out
2) Happened upon it in the giant repository of tutorials

#1 is an obvious problem, and #2 is just as bad. In what Mega Man game do I have to read an entire handbook before I can just pick up the controller and play? If raocow was never told about it, he would have game overed on Seismic with the lives setting turned up to maximum, and he's definitely not on the lower half of the skill spectrum of players in general. That is not a good sign, and i've watched many others better and worse than raocow fail harder with either the same or less information going in.

Yes, a lot of this is from a "first-play" sort of standpoint, but you know that saying that the first impression matters the most? It is never truer than here. This is definitely not a game I miss any of the mechanics and platforming obstacles of, and I think a lot of others would feel the same way about the thought of turning the game on again for another run (they don't).

They also mention the flow of the game, but they also conveniently do not mention things like the long intro sequence with the strange emphasis on the robot clearly standing there being harmless being treated as the biggest threat in the world. A lot more than just mechanics matter to make a game's whole package look good, and this person seems to just be in it for the mechanics. They do mention preferring the graphics as well and, fair enough, but the graphics have nothing to do with the awkwardness of that cutscene.

On top of that, just because this game is faster than Mega Man/X does not mean it is better. I would any day of the week prefer to destroy a line of enemies with a charge shot or a cool special weapon than be forced to find an arbitrary red powerup that doesn't even last forever just to weaken them to pass through safely. Why couldn't they just have given Beck a charge shot to stun multiple enemies with? That might have helped a lot...

I've got to take care of some things, but one more thing I want to point out is that near the start of the second video, they talk about the love for the Mega Man license not being a big deal.

INAFUNE HIMSELF MADE IT A BIG DEAL. IT WAS ONE OF HIS SELLING POINTS FOR THIS KICKSTARTER THAT HE HAD WORKED ON THE SERIES AND HE WAS GOING TO BRING OUT SOMETHING TO FILL THE VOID.

Normally wearing rose-tinted glasses is bad, but in this case, this was one of the hooks they used to get people into the game. Understandably, they horribly failed to deliver on that vision, and paid for it dearly. There is a REASON their entire company went under and had to be bought by Level-5, and there is a reason a lot of people do not like this game.

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Mea » 6 months ago

We thought Dr. Blackwell was the Dr. Wily but it was Dr. White that was the Dr. Wily all along! Kind of? He did apparently make the final boss and all. His name change would supposedly represent some conviction to become diametrically opposed to who he was or maybe what (who I assume is) his father represents. But Dr. Blackwell doesn't seem evil, so what's with Mr. White? Just an audience expectation subversion trick? Maybe they'll elaborate in the final stage/postlude?
I'm a fan of stories where the child/descendant takes a divergent step away from the predecessor's path, so I wonder if they had/have something in mind with these two.

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Chirei
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Chirei » 6 months ago

So I will actually posit the angle that not knowing what the weapons do was not raocow's fault.

There's this cool little thing the megaman games came up with over time called WEAPON DEMOS and they are totally absent in this game with a budget of a few million dollars. Given that you have to use these to get through the stage and they are not as simple as "shoot the weapon", I would say they screwed up again.

This is also one of the reasons I think MM2 isn't as good as some of the others, since it lacks that along with charge shot and sliding. MM11 will completely subvert all this nonsense in the best way possible when the time comes to it.
Mea wrote: I'm a fan of stories where the child/descendant takes a divergent step away from the predecessor's path, so I wonder if they had/have something in mind with these two.
My best guess is that this was supposed to be explained with the MN9 movie/cartoon that was supposed to come out with this, and you would have been expected to see it to get the full experience.

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby kitikami » 6 months ago

Graham is not exactly the most charismatic villain, though the story appears to be heading in the direction of there being no mastermind at all, which I think is an interesting development and a nice subversion of Mega Man's Wily/Sigma formula.

I half expected Dr. White to end up a villain ever since that cutscene where he said something like, "This code must be my work, look how brilliant it is." It seems that's probably not the case, but they do seem to be trying to give his character some moral ambiguity, or at least a non-straightforward good guy archetype, which again breaks out of the Mega Man roots. I haven't been paying that much more attention to the story than raocow, but it is starting to feel like they put a sincere effort into doing some more complex storytelling than Mega Man, which I appreciate.
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Leet » 6 months ago

Inafune really wanted to finally do the "it wasn't dr. wily" twist, but didn't have the actual dr. wily, making it vastly more foreseeable
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby KobaBeach » 6 months ago

Chirei wrote: There's this cool little thing the megaman games came up with over time called WEAPON DEMOS and they are totally absent in this game with a budget of a few million dollars. Given that you have to use these to get through the stage and they are not as simple as "shoot the weapon", I would say they screwed up again.

This is also one of the reasons I think MM2 isn't as good as some of the others, since it lacks that along with charge shot and sliding. MM11 will completely subvert all this nonsense in the best way possible when the time comes to it.
I'm gonna be contrarian and edgy for a second and say that tbh I think MM2 (also MM3)'s popularity is kinda overblown and a lot of later games improved and expanded on their original concept, so they just seem kind of dated in comparison, especially considering how unbalanced MM2 is and how outright buggy and jank MM3 is. MM9 and MM10 taking you back to MM2's moveset also seemed really excessive to me.

Then again I think Mega Man & Bass is fun so what do I know.
If you really like MM2 and/or MM3, your opinions are perfectly valid, please don't take this as me ruining your fun.
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Bean
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Bean » 6 months ago

Back when I played this, I had the feeling that they were going to do a level where you had to use your forms at some point, and sure enough, here it was. Not sure where Seismic's ability would come in handy (maybe the last room with the robots?), but the others all get at least one room where they can shine.

Like I said though, these endgame stages present confusing scenarios at times, so I wasn't exactly surprised to see some struggles. When the latter half of the level went more straightforward, those problems went away. Wish the game would get out of its own way sometimes, but that's just not the case in places. Still, I like that level and wish they would've done more with it.

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Zummorr » 6 months ago

Chirei wrote: So I will actually posit the angle that not knowing what the weapons do was not raocow's fault.

There's this cool little thing the megaman games came up with over time called WEAPON DEMOS and they are totally absent in this game with a budget of a few million dollars. Given that you have to use these to get through the stage and they are not as simple as "shoot the weapon", I would say they screwed up again.
I know we've all tuned out anything the game says by this point but the game did say "Get ready to use your special weapons!" before the missions started. So I hold raocow at fault just a little.

There are VR missions for the weapons when you obtain the weapon. They aren't great, but they aren't absent. I wouldn't really recommend them, but the helicopter power does demonstrate how to go upwards with it.

Regarding the weapons. I found most of them pretty underwhelming except for the dual swords and the crash bomb. The crash bomb can be fired and exploded almost instantly, so you can spam powerful game lagging explosions.

Regarding all the plot stuff: It feels really weird to me that we put all this work and voting on Beck and Call. And yet every plot movement is done by Urchin-head, Sanda, Charlie, and Grandpa Jail-bones. All the weight is on them, not Beck, not the numbers, not us the players. It feels to me like Beck and Call are just the hired muscle.

William White just strikes me as this really ambivalent Dr.Frakenstein where he creates this entire family cohort of robots that he has no investment in, beyond their physical capabilities. Capabilities which he is surprised to learn, on robots HE BUILT!

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Super Maks 64 » 6 months ago

KobaBeach wrote: Then again I think Mega Man & Bass is fun so what do I know.
Your opinion is valid.

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby KobaBeach » 6 months ago

I'm just a huge nerd for the Super Famicom, especially anything that was released near the mid to late years of its life, i.e. when stuff was like pushing near 32-bit in terms of graphical quality. I guess I'm a bit of a graphics whore.
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Chirei » 6 months ago

Zummorr wrote: There are VR missions for the weapons when you obtain the weapon. They aren't great, but they aren't absent. I wouldn't really recommend them, but the helicopter power does demonstrate how to go upwards with it.
...There are????

It says a lot that I didn't know specific challenges for these existed, or seen anyone specifically play these ones that use the weapons. I knew extra missions were there, but not what they comprised of. I am guessing that you have to actually get the weapon in question to unlock them, which means one would have to continually check back and WANT to play them.

And yeah, you actually only need Aviator and Battalion's abilities to get through that level despite how it builds it up to needing all your abilities. The room with the four switches very close to each other was supposed to use Pyrogen's ability... but the bomb has better range, is quicker, and just flat out better. It's not built great in that sense.
KobaBeach wrote: Then again I think Mega Man & Bass is fun so what do I know.
I mean you can play as Bass and that's fun

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby KobaBeach » 6 months ago

Chirei wrote:
KobaBeach wrote: Then again I think Mega Man & Bass is fun so what do I know.
I mean you can play as Bass and that's fun
MM&B is weird like, it's complete bullshit and breaks a lot of rules about game design but I still have a lot of fun with it, it's one of my favorite games ever and I just adore the pixel art and music? I may have not done the CDs savestateless but I have done Mega Man and Bass' stories multiple times savestateless and I'd do it again.

Hell, I'm actually good at King Jet (the trick is using Lightning Bolt's air time to hang mid air for a sec).
It's the kind of dumb bullshit I like hacks like the good parts of VIP and JUMP for.

It's not a good game at all, but I just love it and feel adequately challenged by it.
You're more than free to not like it, trust me, that is perfectly valid.
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Blivsey » 6 months ago

The idea that Blackwell hasn't actually (or more accurately, "actually hasn't") done much wrong is a pretty clever twist, but
that's mostly because we haven't had enough time to not care about the character because he spent all his time offscreen. I think I'd appreciate the Dr. White twist more if I cared about him as a character, but unlike Blackwell he's been present in the story and had the honor of the writing whittling my interest in him down like everyone else.

Also I think MM2 is the worst Mega Man because any game that thinks the Boobeam Trap is acceptable game design on any level doesnt deserve any credit and no this is not a jest
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Chirei » 6 months ago

KobaBeach wrote: You're more than free to not like it, trust me, that is perfectly valid.
I would say it's above the halfway mark somewhere for me as Classic MM. the GBA port even features extra channels on some of the music which is already good. Shame about the smaller screen size, but otherwise it's a complete, working package that stands by itself.
Blivsey wrote: Also I think MM2 is the worst Mega Man because any game that thinks the Boobeam Trap is acceptable game design on any level doesnt deserve any credit and no this is not a jest
The only reason this thing gets a pass nowadays is because people just say that it was an old game and it shouldn't be judged so harshly, and that a very large number of MM fans have beaten it, so they're very very very far from the "first impression" point that knowing how to beat it is just considered normal and never taken into account.

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Kilgamayan » 6 months ago

Congrats to Archer Emiya for making it into Mighty #9

Also it is perfectly permissible to enjoy imperfect or even bad games, I don't know how warm that take truly is
Bean wrote:
Kilgamayan wrote: The spike drop was made to look harder than it actually is by suboptimal gameplay. There's no real way to sugarcoat that.
I platinumed the game and will say that the last drop in the level is deceptively tougher than it looks. You don't have much time to react and absolutely have to make a precision mid-air dash to clear that part without touching the ceiling or floor spikes. That stretch ended multiple runs for me when going for the very tough single segment run in one life goal.

Even in a normal run, you have to remember that the hover mechanic has never been necessary to that point. It's a very tight fit!
Oh, I'm not going to say it's super-easy either. But the video had three clearly suboptimal attempts at it in a row before the first successful attempt (which actually hovered the whole way). The third failure in particular was a truly bizarre gameplay choice of jumping straight up from the furthest possible distance away from the edge of the platform before only starting to move forward on the descent.
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Voltgloss » 6 months ago

Kilgamayan wrote: The third failure in particular was a truly bizarre gameplay choice of jumping straight up from the furthest possible distance away from the edge of the platform before only starting to move forward on the descent.
Also known as "the La-Mulana approach"
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Grounder » 6 months ago

I HATE YOU, DAD
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Heavy Sigh » 6 months ago

The last boss is Alpha from BN3 that turns into a Devil that turns into a Kirby Boss that turns into Call design D.

This sure was a 4.5/10 videogame.

Call design D here.
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby KobaBeach » 6 months ago

angrycow was hilarious, reminded me of me getting legit mad at the second ishrantu battle in tales of phantasia yesterday

you shouldn't get mad at yourself for anything, it's very clearly the game's fault w



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Edit: here's a better rap song to wash away the filth of mn9 (or just listen to literally any other rap song tbh)
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Re: Mighty No. 9 - Better Than Nothing

Postby Leet » 6 months ago

KobaBeach wrote: Image
I came here to post this, it makes the whole game worth it
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.


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