Mega Man - We're Here Forever!

[Voltgloss]

So I've never played this, and was curious, so I just watched 5 randomly chosen "expert-level" playthroughs of this stage on Youtube. None of them used the Chain Rod to climb up those jumps raocow struggled with. They all did the same curving-back-dash-jumps that raocow was using. (One playthrough used the Chain Rod at the very beginning to shortcut getting up onto the first ledge instead of using the ladder. But that's it.)

This suggests the Chain Rod isn't the answer here.

[Paragraph]

The chain rod is not the answer here, no. It's just a very fucky jump. There's a few in Zero 1 like that for secrets, but sadly Zero 2 requires one here.

This stage is my favourite to get the "kill enemies with Shield Boomerang" Form on, because a charged Boomerang has the perfect range and trajectory to hit the weird floating crystals, so you can charge it up, fire a single buster shot to reveal the platforms/spawn the glowbugs, then release the Boomerang and kill them all immediately. Of course, that's only possible with control Type B .

It's a weird gimmick for sure though. I think they want you to shoot once to reveal the platforms, then jump and slash in mid-air to kill all the spawned bugs. It's clunky. Otoh there's a lot of clues with enemies on platforms/the way the spike ground dips that you don't actually really need to reveal the crystals after the first few times. So while it's not a great stage, it's fine on replays (that's pretty much true for the entire series though).


Also, if people think that Zero 2 is bad for weird gimmicks, and/or that raocow should really engage with them better, better not watch Zero 3 then. (that's mostly directed to YT comments, nobody here complains I think)

[LunarRainbowShyGuy]

I forgot the ship from the previous level shows up in another stage, so I was a bit confused when I saw the video thumbnail. Anyway I had hoped to unlock the energy form here by farming health drops from the firefly enemies, but as far as I can tell they don't drop health unless you're using the energy form. There didn't seem to be any other good spots to farm for health without taking so long that it hurts my rank, so I guess I'll have to save that for another stage.

I like the idea of the part where you have to hit the diamond shaped thing to reveal the platforms, though the firefly enemies really get in the way if you try to leave them alive, which is rather annoying. Though in the second part of that you can tell where the platforms are by looking at the indentations in the spike floor. Overall this stage didn't give me much trouble. Though I guess I must be used to making awkward jumps or something, because it never even occurred to me that those jumps near the end might give people trouble.

I think Harpuia is a pretty neat boss. I kind of like the fact that the fight is mostly the same but with some new attacks. At first I thought it was just the same as the first game until he caught me off guard with his dash attack. Despite his new attacks, the fact that you can knock him out of the air once again makes him pretty easy. If you knock him into the corner and stand in the opposite corner he can't even hit you with his new dash attack. For his EX attack he dashes back and forth in the air while shooting big energy waves that take up over half of the screen straight downwards, requiring you to dash back and forth to dodge them. I found it to be mostly easy to dodge, but he fires the first shot in the middle of the screen instead of on one of the sides, making dodging the second one a bit tricky.

[Stink Terios]

We only heard it for a split second, but Elpizo's theme is great.

[Ashan]

Man if only there was an ability that increased health drops like you were using literally just yesterday

[Stink Terios]

Fefnir's probably basex off Fáfnir, as opposed to Fenrir.

raocow, it would be nice if you tried using the elements on things. The game is designed with their use in mind, with lots of environmental interactions.

[ano0maly]

raocow's mishaps and the discussion here are making me load up this game again to test things out, and some observations I had today:

1. I gotta say, this game is very fun when you know what you're doing - making sure you have sub-tanks, how to properly use your weapons and other tools (forms/EX attacks/elements/elves), and knowing the alternate and side paths you can explore. Maybe this game just doesn't have as good of an experience with a blind run as opposed to a replay? I guess it's because the game doesn't quite do a good job conveying these mechanics.
   

   So I've never played this, and was curious, so I just watched 5 randomly chosen "expert-level" playthroughs of this stage on Youtube. None of them used the Chain Rod to climb up those jumps raocow struggled with. They all did the same curving-back-dash-jumps that raocow was using. (One playthrough used the Chain Rod at the very beginning to shortcut getting up onto the first ledge instead of using the ladder. But that's it.)
   
   This suggests the Chain Rod isn't the answer here.

2. Actually, the chain rod can be used if you aim for the top corner of those awkward platforms. It helps you get onto the wall part without actually jumping at it. (Note that you can adjust the rod length while you're grappled.) Aside from using the rod, it helps if you start your dash from the horizontal part of the platform instead of the slope, even though you wait until you're on the slope before jumping.
   

   As for the path near the end he didn't take: that actually returns to the main portion of the previous stage, since this is where the ship crashed.

   or it would if the hatch wasn't sealed shut. at least you can still revisit it by talking to the operators

3. I guess the hatch is shut when you're actually playing the level as the current mission? If you return via operator to the Crystal Cave stage, it actually ends right where you see the ship. But you can access another stage, called "Broken Aircraft", to continue right at that point. Instead of proceeding to where you fought Harpuia, the game lets you climb down the ladder; this allows you to revisit the ship level.
4. This is @raocow: are you using double-tap to dash or the dash button? Playing around with the dashes, I felt that the dash button it makes dashing feel more natural and reflex-friendly. And when you're midair, if you hold down that dash button, you can remain in the dash state, even while climbing walls, until you land. This does not hold for double-tap dash.

[Le Neveu de Rameau]

raocow can we call you LP-zo from now on

[Chirei]

I was overwhelmed by IRL stuff so I haven't been keeping up since yesterday.


X Form

In a reversal of fate, Zero copies X's power.

The power of the Buster Shot increases, and does +1 extra damage on every type of shot dealt with it. Zero also gets Rapid 4, which allows him to have 4 lemons on the screen at once.

Zero can only perform the second slash of his combo in this form. This is actually a reference to how X can only swing Zero's old Z-Saber overhead in X6 and X Challenge. I guess Zero also inherits X's ineptness with the sword with this form?

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Form requirements checklist

1) Get 25 life capsules of any size in one mission. Energy Form Awakened.
2) Kill at least 50 enemies with the Buster Shot. X Form Awakened.
3) Reflect 30 projectiles with the Shield Boomerang.
4) Kill 20 enemies with the jumping Z-Saber slash. Rise Form Awakened.
5) Kill 20 enemies with the dashing Z-Saber slash.
6) Pull 30 objects with the Chain Rod (you may keep doing it on the same object.)
7) Kill 20 enemies with the Shield Boomerang charge attack.

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As for the jumps in Crystal Cave, I have actually never needed to use the Chain Rod to get up there, mostly because it's a bit awkward to get up walls using it. It's more used for swinging horizontally.

Also I have no idea why but I always thought that the big gun pantheons were just trying to shoot energy watermelons at Zero.

[Kincyr]

Form requirements checklist

1) Get 25 life capsules of any size in one mission. Energy Form Awakened.
2) Kill at least 50 enemies with the Buster Shot. X Form Awakened.
3) Reflect 30 projectiles with the Shield Boomerang.
4) Kill 20 enemies with the jumping Z-Saber slash. Rise Form Awakened.
5) Kill 20 enemies with the dashing Z-Saber slash.
6) Pull 30 objects with the Chain Rod (you may keep doing it on the same object.)
7) Kill 20 enemies with the Shield Boomerang charge attack.

it's been mentioned that only one form can be awarded at the end of a mission, but I have found a technical exception: the 2 forms not mentioned due to being New Game + forms. if you fulfil the conditions for both forms at the same time, the game will award your Clear Data with both at the final Mission Clear screen (I'm assuming the game makes a special call for those two forms, since in theory it's possible to unlock one of the other seven forms in the final mission and get a total of 3 Form unlock messages one after another)

for those curious, the requirements for those 2 forms are
8) Beat the final mission. (side note: in Hard mode, this is the only form you have access to)
9) Beat the final mission after using every Cyber-Elf.

[SAJewers]

Man if only there was an ability that increased health drops like you were using literally just yesterday

I mean, he could've also done the thing he just earlier said one could to do deal with those enemies.

[Paragraph]

This level is suuuper tough, but one of the best ones to just FLY through after you got better at it (and the game in general). The gameplay flow is amazing, you barely have to stop for anything. Before you've done if a few (dozen?) times though, yeah, it's going to do nasty things to you. But that's Zero 2 for you.

Fefnir is also a super great fight if he doesn't have his EX skill. It's almost as bad as his Zero 1 one in this game, makes him invincible for-freaking-ever and you just have to dodge, but at least he doesn't pull it out to shoot above himself with no warning.

As people in the YT comments have mentioned, you can freeze the lava buckets. Imho this barely helps because they can still crush you easily, you basically still have to dash-jump in-between them. It's a bit of a crutch and will make going through the level very unfun. Better to just learn the timing.

btw "wonder if I should just shoot him, but the sword deals so much damage!!" says the player using the X Form which increases buster damage...


Oh yeah, the best (only good?) way to get That One Health Capsule is to chain rod straight up from underneath, so you latch onto the overhang of the platform above.

[Kilgamayan]

That poor elf at the top of the Resistance base to the left of the left gun tower will be stuck there forever. :(

[Paragraph]

This episode reminded me that I needed to listen to the Zero 2 soundtrack again and I gotta report: shit's fuckin' banging still, yo

[LunarRainbowShyGuy]

I found this stage to be pretty tough. A few of the fire buckets were giving me a lot of trouble (specifically the pair of rising buckets early on and the ones in the section with the falling platforms), so I ended up equipping the ice chip to deal with them. (While I refuse to use the elemental chips against bosses, I decided that in stages they're fair game.)

At the end of this stage is Fefnir, who also gave me a good deal of trouble. Though his EX attack is easy to dodge, and I'd even say it makes the fight easier as a whole. It consists of him making fire come up from the ground in a simple and easy to dodge pattern. The annoying thing about it is that it takes a bit of time, and I even had one run where I ended up taking too long to get an S rank because of it.

Also, I still haven't gotten the Energy Form yet. This stage wasn't really a good candidate for getting it. I decided to load up my save file from the first time I played this game because I was curious if I unlocked it back then. It turns out I've never unlocked the Energy Form, which I find interesting since it's apparently easy to accidentally unlock.

[ztarwuff]

We only heard it for a split second, but Elpizo's theme is great.

The remastered version is fantastic.

[ano0maly]

I don't like those lava buckets either. They can crush you and they can hurt you by contact. I was afraid that the flinch from bucket contact damage would end up getting me crushed by the same bucket. I wonder if for parts that you jump over ascending buckets coming out of lava, it's better to not dash?

raocow, it would be nice if you tried using the elements on things. The game is designed with their use in mind, with lots of environmental interactions.

They also don't involve sacrificing elves.

I don't think anyone really cares about the challenge of not using elements. And it's fine to initially attempt bosses without them in order to see what they're about, but if you're struggling and they're dragging things out for too long, I think it's a good idea to use them. Boss refights come to mind.

[Shard1697]

I care about it, tbqh. MMZ bosses that have elemental weaknesses are pretty dull using them.

[Leet]

I think using boss weaknesses, aka the key gimmick of the franchise, is much less cheesy than E-tanking through everything. So of course the opposite is the status quo for AtMM

[Crow]

"it's funny how much less trouble i've had since i got a sub tank"
fixed that opening statement.

it helps a lot, lol

[Grounder]

no rao

i'm pretty sure the difficulty curve is just a sonic level

[Paragraph]

This is a bit of a breather level to be sure (especially following Fenrir's), but if you're going for high rank, it can be pretty difficult. It's definitely about grinding you down through a bunch of small enemies, and that adds up quickly if you can only get hit, like, four times? Three from the bombs? Also, the Energy Form's health drops surely help a lot here.

Levi also has never been the toughest of bosses, though she's improved a LOT over Zero 1 where you could literally stand in a corner and she couldn't get to you. Her proactive stabbing from above while the ice crystals fall, the big melee attack and how much screen she covers with her AOE attacks do make the fight very active and cool, and the EX skill adds a whole nother level of challenge (it's basically Launch Octopus' suck-in Tornado...but she also constantly fires on you and ends with a shower of projectiles from the floor).

The level is fairly straight-forward, but you almost got a very cool thing: the snowball launcher that faces the "wrong way" will make a snowball that becomes giant if you follow it, and it takes out all the mines on the slopes!

Congratulations on figuring out why you get a sword AND a gun, though. Zero 2 and onwards really expects you to switch between both ranged and melee depending on the situation, yet another argument for control Type B; you can for example slash away Levi's crystals without losing your buster charge.


The next boss is super annoying if you don't figure out a few things about it. Hope you have fun lol

[Bean]

The more I see of this game, the more I remember how unbalanced it is compared to the other three. Thanks for the reminder!

[Kilgamayan]

I liked how you discovered the Up+Saber rising slash EX skill killed the buzzsaw wheels and wolves in one shot and then just...kept not using it on them.

[ztarwuff]

Oh, raocow. why'd you collect the large health after the turret when you had so little health to refill? Such a waste of a large health tank.