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VLDC9 - vanilla level design contest 9

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Kowkarot » 2 months ago

raocow wrote:a propos of nothing, anyone knows how to disable layers in snes9x? everyone keeps telling me to disable layers on the star in best world map
Press the numbers, I think 3 is the right one.

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby S.N.N. » 2 months ago

Originally you were supposed to stand on the star for 7 minutes and 7 seconds and then the curtain would open. This was never implemented, so now there's a fragment of it left behind in the form of a layer-disabling Easter egg.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby ACesspoolofHatred » 2 months ago

oh man surprisingly good music from a licensed flinstones game???? imagination is a cheeky traitor
Nimono wrote:
S.N.N. wrote:
James Rowe wrote:And honestly Raocow, I love your videos and have been a fan for a long time but your snark and "not trying to call someone out" while continuously bitching about them. Well, this contest has made me loose a bit of respect for ya buddy.
this is actually just a small snip of the much larger comment he posted, but holy hell lol
i liked the one where he whined and screamed about how all of SMWC is corrupt about judging because there's no accountability whatsoever lol
it's about ethics in romhack contests

i had extended contact with the abscess that is gamergate once upon a time. it was a prolonged-headache incarnate. i'll probably tell that story in, like, a pat-a-pon or something.
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Re: VLDC9 - vibrant logs distraught cheveaux 9

Postby Zephyr_DragonLord » 2 months ago

While Interplanetary isn't the choice I would personally pick to be a winner, it spoke to me. Gameplay might not have been the best, but what's there is incredibly fulfilling and complete. And the looks of the level are great too, if a bit weaker. But what this level actually excels at... is storytelling. This is a very rare level that does it just right, and without much textual context at all. You've done a very good job with this, and I can see this as the winner...
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby zagesaw » 2 months ago

I would have been perfectly fine having Interplanetary winning the entire contest. The level was fairly fun to play with a lot of variety going on, with amazing aesthetics. It pretty much does everything right. While I enjoyed playing the morsel, lolyoshi, and worldpeace levels more from a gameplay perspective, I feel like Interplanetary would fit as the contest winner better, as it does well in all the categories.

Both Mass Extinction and Interplanetary were amazing levels. It's all downhill from here, although there is still 1 level left that I really enjoyed by 1 judge.

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Koopster » 2 months ago

You know, all things considered raocow might actually really like the winner level :geek:

I think all of us were a bit puzzled about the moon since it's much more round than what people can usually achieve with vanilla (some examples in this very contest), but I recall I took the time to check its authenticity and it is indeed fully made out of vanilla tiles.

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby nothobz » 2 months ago

but that’s just my opinion. :oops:

i think the funniest thing about those kinds of comments is that, in a vanilla contest where it is against the rules to use non-vanilla tiles, when you think you've found a tile that breaks the rules, you dont ask the author to clarify, you dont check, you dont discuss it with your fellow judges, you dont attempt to disqualify the level for breaking the rules
you just lower the score and passively mention it

e: a big part of what makes interplanetary so memorable as an experience is that it's one you take on by yourself. There isn't any cheesy narration boxes or implied story you're observing as a third party. It's just you and this interesting world, and you're exploring all this incredible stuff on your own, at your own pace. The level's narrative is as shallow or as deep as you want it to be, and i think that's important.

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby lolyoshi » 2 months ago

There is a misapprehension that ninja boy played with rewinds during his all of his judging, which isn't true. He started uploading videos of himself judging the levels while recording, but then started replaying them for his channel in the 14th video to catch up with judging (which is where he starts using rewinds). Though I'm not counting the one where he abused rewinds on Swiss Hotel (10th video).

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby repairmanman » 2 months ago

I can totally see why a lot of people wanted today's level to be first place. While I myself would have wanted levels like Mass Extinction and Ice Cutting Site to be higher up, I can totally get why this was a lot of people's favorite level.

somewhat related:
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Grounder » 2 months ago

And so this is how the world ends.

Not with a bang, but with a vague, noncommittal "ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Koopster » 2 months ago

Well, since I'm back I may as well post the judging comments

2nd: IGNIS FATUUS by Agent Q
Nimono
DESIGN: 29/30
CREATIVITY: 20/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 59/60
It felt like Ghosts n Goblins! I quite liked it, though it seemed a bit too easy to run out of time... I had about 45 seconds left on the clock by the time I hit the end.

ninja boy
DESIGN: 22/30
CREATIVITY: 20/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 52/60
Wow this level was great, really fun looked amazing and provided a good challenge

Eternity
DESIGN: 26/30
CREATIVITY: 18/20
AESTHETICS: 9/10
TOTAL: 53/60
Surprisingly simple, but still fun. Design's rather straightforward but still pretty well done, the fire enemies are used pretty well throughout and no major issues come to mind. The atmosphere's also great, specially on the cave sections.

Koopster
DESIGN: 27/30
CREATIVITY: 18/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 55/60
This level looks SO GOOD! And plays SO GOOD! It's not outstandingly different from the ordinary in level design, but it feels really professional. It's very fun to play and explore. The time limit is just a little bit tight though!

1st: SUBTERRANEAN GLOW by Impetus and Noivern (TRS)
Nimono
DESIGN: 28/30
CREATIVITY: 18/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 56/60
Quite a beautiful and fun level! Although, some parts in the autoscroll (especially the end) were a bit too difficult to complete if you weren't way up front, thus knowing the obstacles that were coming... Make sure to give enough leeway for players that hang in the back-middle so they can see what's coming up!

ninja boy
Favorite
DESIGN: 30/30
CREATIVITY: 20/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 60/60
This level is just flat out awesome the grim look or the grey scale the colorfulness of the p-switch then the star tying it all together I just have no words.

Eternity
DESIGN: 28/30
CREATIVITY: 18/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 56/60
A P-Switch run level done right. This level is short but sweet, the design is really well done and aesthetically it's fantastic. Nothing particularly bad about this, it's super fun to play through and even though the gimmick is nothing new, it was executed in a great way. The star was definitely a great additon too.

Koopster
DESIGN: 26/30
CREATIVITY: 18/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 54/60
"oh look it's a POW Perspective ripoff" man do I regret that first thought. This level was so amazing! I LOVE how you need P-switches to color up the area and also be able to see, but I think the gray colors could darken a bit more often for the gimmick to work more effectively! When I saw the star, I remembered Lunar Magic has this starman trigger on ExAnimation that no one ever uses and I imagined you could've used it. I was not disappointed at all. You got some basic, but very good and cohesive design.


An important fact about Agent Q's level is that the song that played is not the song it used originally. It actually uses a Mickey game song and it makes the level feel a lot different than it does in the compilation. It's supposed to have a more "magical/mystical" feel to it if that makes any sense. It's been replaced because that port apparently doesn't work with AddmusicK, which is a shame (even more of a shame when you realise no effort was made to make the second place level accurate).
You actually missed one dragon in a sublevel in Subterranean Glow. I assume that one respawned because the authors put them via map16 for their animation purposes.

As I said I'm guilty for scoring them high too, but I really liked those two levels, so what can I say? I'm sure people wouldn't have minded them at all if they weren't that high up as I'm sure most of us judges expected it to turn out. Even top 10 is good for these levels, especially second place imo. That level's aesthetic work is just impressive, I'd even dare to put it in the tier of Fabulatory.

Also spoilers the first level in the postgame is mine. Some people really hate it, so I'm really curious as to how it'll go lol
Last edited by Koopster on 19 Feb 2017, 13:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Super Maks 64 » 2 months ago

I thought every level in top 3 would get it's own video?

Anyway the second place is a solid and fun level.
The first place while it could be fun for some it's just a P-Switch run/Autoscroller/Star Run/Everything I mentioned at the same time and I think the exanimation gimmick in this level could have been used to create puzzles in which you can't see/walk on platforms unless P-Switch is on/On|Off block is on|off, but here it's just a simple level and the fact that the light turns off and on doesn't add anything in this level except waiting and the autoscrolling star run doesn't add anything except deaths by being crushed (as seen in raocow's video) and the star just allows you to see star2 blocks and not care about the enemies.

I understand that this level could get 10/10 in aesthetics, a lot of points in creativity, but a 30/30 in design just makes no sense.

Anyway moving onto the postgame (I'll talk more about the levels in it later) and the way to get there ties with the winning level's gimmick.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Ryrir » 2 months ago

Even though this doesn't actually have anything to do with the contest in itself, I think now that we're more or less done I want to crosspost YelseyKing's opinion from another thread because I really really 100% agree with him:
YelseyKing wrote:...I'm *severely* burned out on contest LPs. And contests in general, really. Between Talkhaus, SMWC, and the SMBX forums, it seems like there's *always* a contest going these days -- sometimes *multiple* ones at the same time -- with rao feeling obligated to LP each one its entirety, and with each one taking at least (at *least*) two months to LP. And the bigger ones can take more than half a year.
Part of the reason why I'm "burned out" on contest LPs is because people naturally focus on any and all weak points of a level. If you listen to the comments here or on youtube (and of course to the judge comments) they always go like this: "This level was good, but..." "This level didn't do anything interesting" "This level was just kind of there" "Why was this level ranked so high/low" "OMG that level was so much better than this level" "DOE ninjaboy is a bad judge??"
I realize that these sort of comments aren't bad or anything (and that they're par for the course for a contest) and that a lot of interesting discussion about level design etc. can come out of them, but I'm really missing the simplicity of a "normal" LP at this point. You know, where you just go from level to level and don't feel the need to analyse them to death. There's something to be said about LPs without all that drama that contests automatically come attached with.

Another thing is that playing VLDC9 more or less right after MAGL3 was just too much in my opinion. I know that technically there was Donkey Kong in between, but that lasted for something like a week and it really wasn't enough time to justify playing another huge contest right afterwards (again, in my opinion).

Playing a contest once in a while can be a lot of fun, but playing two contest so close to each other sort of sucked the fun out of it for me.

If I have any constructive criticism to give to raocow it's to please space these contests out a lot more than just one small project in between them. Especially if you're set on playing even more of them in the future.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby GlitchMr » 2 months ago

Possible angrycow warning for first level of World X. (it did make me and Pyro angry)

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby S.N.N. » 2 months ago

For the record Ryrir, I agree with most of your post completely about the drama/etc behind contests, and how they can tire people out, but...
Ryrir wrote:Another thing is that playing VLDC9 more or less right after MAGL3 was just too much in my opinion. I know that technically there was Donkey Kong in between, but that lasted for something like a week and it really wasn't enough time to justify playing another huge contest right afterwards (again, in my opinion).

Playing a contest once in a while can be a lot of fun, but playing two contest so close to each other sort of sucked the fun out of it for me.
We are at the point in SMW hacking's lifespan where the vast majority (read: pretty much all) of what is being made is either contests or Talkhaus/SMWC collabs. There are so few good full solo hacks being made nowadays - the trend has pretty much shifted towards this. That being said, if raocow wants to play anything SMW-related, his options are getting more and more limited. I personally really enjoy these LPs, but as I said, I agree with you - the controversy behind each and every contest gets very tiring.

So, world X: there's only one level I'm not a huge fan of, and the rest are pretty good, with one being clearly superior. I think the postgame will feel much more climactic than 1st place did, at least.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby SAJewers » 2 months ago

It'll be interesting the next A-side Patreon Poll then, with slim pickings for SMW hacks, and it seems people's appetite for SMBX is still low.

EDIT: For reference, at last A-side Poll (back in April/May) had 8 Official Nintendo games, 7 SMW Hacks, 1 NSMBW Hack, 1 SMB3 ROM Hack,1 SMBX Episode, 2 Fan Games, an SM64 Hack, and the SMA4 e-reader levels
Last edited by SAJewers on 19 Feb 2017, 14:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Ryrir » 2 months ago

S.N.N. wrote:For the record Ryrir, I agree with most of your post completely about the drama/etc behind contests, and how they can tire people out, but...
Ryrir wrote:Another thing is that playing VLDC9 more or less right after MAGL3 was just too much in my opinion. I know that technically there was Donkey Kong in between, but that lasted for something like a week and it really wasn't enough time to justify playing another huge contest right afterwards (again, in my opinion).

Playing a contest once in a while can be a lot of fun, but playing two contest so close to each other sort of sucked the fun out of it for me.
We are at the point in SMW hacking's lifespan where the vast majority (read: pretty much all) of what is being made is either contests or Talkhaus/SMWC collabs. There are so few good full solo hacks being made nowadays - the trend has pretty much shifted towards this. That being said, if raocow wants to play anything SMW-related, his options are getting more and more limited. I personally really enjoy these LPs, but as I said, I agree with you - the controversy behind each and every contest gets very tiring.

So, world X: there's only one level I'm not a huge fan of, and the rest are pretty good, with one being clearly superior. I think the postgame will feel much more climactic than 1st place did, at least.
You have a point. But even then off the top of my head I can think of at least two SMW hacks that aren't contests which I think raocow would enjoy and which he hasn't played yet - and then there's alot of SMBX stuff out there as well. I think I'll post them in the request thread or something
Last edited by Ryrir on 19 Feb 2017, 14:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Pyro » 2 months ago

Thaaaaaaaaaat's the first place level! It's not very good! :D

Really says a lot about the contest how the level that won was the favorite of the worst judge and the only perfect score he gave. :P. I'd say why I dislike Subterranean Glow but honestly I think the level speaks for itself. It's just boring.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Duothimir » 2 months ago

Boy, that sure was a level that existed.
but why

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby LHB » 2 months ago

I really wish Subterranean Glow did more with it's gimmick. If it wasn't for the brown blocks existing none of the P-Switches or stars would be necessary to beating the level, which renders the gimmick pointless. And even when the gimmick is activated it only affects the level aesthetically. It would've been nice to give the player more of a purpose of hitting the switches other than "you can progress in the level now and you can also see for slightly longer".
Last edited by LHB on 19 Feb 2017, 14:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby SAJewers » 2 months ago

Ryrir wrote:
S.N.N. wrote:For the record Ryrir, I agree with most of your post completely about the drama/etc behind contests, and how they can tire people out, but...
Ryrir wrote:Another thing is that playing VLDC9 more or less right after MAGL3 was just too much in my opinion. I know that technically there was Donkey Kong in between, but that lasted for something like a week and it really wasn't enough time to justify playing another huge contest right afterwards (again, in my opinion).

Playing a contest once in a while can be a lot of fun, but playing two contest so close to each other sort of sucked the fun out of it for me.
We are at the point in SMW hacking's lifespan where the vast majority (read: pretty much all) of what is being made is either contests or Talkhaus/SMWC collabs. There are so few good full solo hacks being made nowadays - the trend has pretty much shifted towards this. That being said, if raocow wants to play anything SMW-related, his options are getting more and more limited. I personally really enjoy these LPs, but as I said, I agree with you - the controversy behind each and every contest gets very tiring.

So, world X: there's only one level I'm not a huge fan of, and the rest are pretty good, with one being clearly superior. I think the postgame will feel much more climactic than 1st place did, at least.
You have a point. But even then off the top of my head I can think of at least two SMW hacks that aren't contests which I think raocow would enjoy and which he hasn't played yet - and then there's alot of SMBX stuff out there as well. I think I'll post them in the request thread or something
Question is wether or not people are interested again in watching raocow play SMBX. Last patreon A-side poll had only 1 SMBX suggestion, and a quick look through the Request thread, I can only find Production X suggested in the last few months. Might just be people not keeping track of what's out there in SMBX-land though.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Zephyr_DragonLord » 2 months ago

...You know what? ninja boy's okay. I can see now why Flash Black is where it is (even though it's the anthesis of raocow), and why ninja boy rated it high after tolerating it. I still don't agree with his ratings, but it's there.

While these levels should have been a bit further down with balanced judging, here they are... the top 2.

Ignis Fatuus looks pretty nice, and plays pretty nice... It uses fire rather well. And actually uses a wizard in a nice method. Time limit's a bit short to be doing those extending platform jumps, though. Another 100 seconds would have been nice, but this is also fine for some tension....
Great job making this one.

Remember Flash Black? Subterranean Glow is a far more accessible and logically built version of that. The gimmick here is pretty marvelous... it has a pretty calming gray flash when inside, and the P-switch and star turns on the outlines more and more.... though I wish the star saturated the whole screen with color gradually. That would have been even cooler than what we got (though more difficult to implement). There's only one beef I have with this, and it's that the autoscroll didn't need to exist. Besides that, I feel that this is fine as a winner. Even though we could have had several others.
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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby TRS » 2 months ago

Zephyr_DragonLord wrote:though I wish the star saturated the whole screen with color gradually. That would have been even cooler than what we got (though more difficult to implement).
There's supposed to be a layer 2 starry background that's supposed to show up with you have a star, but the collab rom messed up that animation and it didn't get fixed despite me posting the bug quite a few times. This is what it's supposed to look like.

The background still stays gray/blue for two reasons: I wanted there to be a visual indicator that the p-switch was still active, even though it wasn't as important in the second part of the level; and we were out of graphics room and animation slots besides.

(I'm actually kinda afraid to watch the video :( )

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby Mata Hari » 2 months ago

I genuinely don't understand what the P-Switches actually did apart from changing the colours of stuff and making some coins appear. And occasionally being used for some ordinary P-Switch purposes?

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Re: VLDC9 - various landfalls defying commonality 9

Postby raocow » 2 months ago

TRS wrote: (I'm actually kinda afraid to watch the video :( )
don't worry, haha. If you want a tldr, I thought the level was very well crafted. I just felt that in terms of gameplay, the level is overshadowed by a lot of other levels in the game. It's okay, it just leaves me wanting a lot more.
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