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MaGL 3 results: moral of the story: laziness always prevails

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Pyro
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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby Pyro » 2 years ago

Voltgloss wrote:I anticipate that Magma Chamber lost points with Pyro for being kind of a romp.
Actually, not really. I liked the level. I'm just a lower scorer in general. Throughout this lp I've realized my biggest mistake in judging has been being really harsh with the fun scores, I really didn't make full use of the range.
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Alice
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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby Alice » 2 years ago

RegiBleck wrote:After hearing the audio in that second level, I kinda wish that raocow would every once in a while record the audio bad just to give us a nostalgia trip to OldTube.
I'd personally prefer he avoid it. On my audio setup there's already a lot of issues with his sudden laughter or singing being way too loud when his normal audio is often a bit quieter than I'd prefer but today was even worse than usual.

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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby Fausthieb » 2 years ago

Pyro wrote:
Voltgloss wrote:I anticipate that Magma Chamber lost points with Pyro for being kind of a romp.
Actually, not really. I liked the level. I'm just a lower scorer in general. Throughout this lp I've realized my biggest mistake in judging has been being really harsh with the fun scores, I really didn't make full use of the range.
How is it supposed to work anyway? Fun is the most subjective category of them all and I am sure nobody could really explain what the difference between a fun score of 22/30 and 23/30 is besides "it is a tick more fun!?!?"
Besides, how is it a mistake if you used your score metric/style on all levels?
This post sounds harsher/more negative than it is supposed to be, lol
I comment more on youtube under a different name: Kunstkritik

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ft029
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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby ft029 » 2 years ago

Alice wrote:
ft029 wrote:dying is quite costly.
How do you figure? The state of each switch is saved even if you die so the biggest cost of dying is any progress towards one switch and nothing more.
I've played the level myself twice, lol. It is a lengthy trip from the start to the red palace, although I died once in the yellow room afterwards. I would have died more had there been less powerups, as those darn baseballs would have been even more crazy to evade.

Perhaps the fun scale should be out of 10 but have a multiplier of 3 if you want to get rid of that "only a tick better?" thing. But that feels weird.
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ano0maly
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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby ano0maly » 2 years ago

Honestly although I've seen instances of not using the full scale by not considering lower scores due to academic grading-like standards places like IGN uses, I think this is the first time I've seen an instance of not using higher scores enough.

Another thing: in hindsight I think the coffee break levels should have had their own judge scores for curiosity.
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Tyty
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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby Tyty » 2 years ago

You do lose a bit of finesse on the scale if you do the multiplier thing. It'd potentially mean a lot of ties... Which i guess isn't really a bad thing, it would just be an oddity of the system.

Maybe if a judge leans one way or another you could curve the scores to more evenly distribute them?... But then you're losing out on accuracy of that scoring stat since a judge could potentially like or dislike all the levels more than the other judges. There's a reason beyond copying video game reviewers to potentially not use part of the scale.

I mean, other than the "is it functional" score all the scores in a contest like this are subjective anyways. If I was judging I know I'd be harsh on difficult levels and probably somewhat picky on the aesthetic score wrt things like palettes (like not using the grassland one with the cave tileset because it looks like moldy bread, unless it's a level made of moldy bread.) Everyone's tastes are different and that's why there's multiple judges.

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nothobz
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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby nothobz » 2 years ago

man raocow you were in a good mood for that second level. i mean you're usually in a good mood i think but your commentary on that magma level was particularly bouncy. :D

also coffee break was too long. i skipped it 2 minuts in because i dont care about snn lol

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ano0maly
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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby ano0maly » 2 years ago

@Tyty I'm not sure if we're on the same page (or if that was even a response to me). I mean that when Pyro was saying how she didn't use the full range, I just found it unusual to see a case of the high range being neglected since normally I see the low range being neglected due to the 5-10 scale. (Which is what I find as improper applications of the scale for things like this.)
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Tyty
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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby Tyty » 2 years ago

ano0maly wrote:@Tyty I'm not sure if we're on the same page (or if that was even a response to me). I mean that when Pyro was saying how she didn't use the full range, I just found it unusual to see a case of the high range being neglected since normally I see the low range being neglected due to the 5-10 scale. (Which is what I find as improper applications of the scale for things like this.)
It was more a response to ft029 then some random musings on scoring, sorry! I guess despite finally being out of university I still have curved grades in the back of my mind.

I probably should've used the quote button.

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Re: MaGL 3 results: the most colorful entry

Postby S.N.N. » 2 years ago

JUDGES' SCORES AND COMMENTS FOR 14th PLACE:

14th: MiracleWater
-FROZENQUILLS-
FUN: 20/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 7/10
AESTHETICS: 10/10 (5/5 GFX + 5/5 MUS)
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL: 46/60

COMMENTS:
Nice level!

The main idea of this level seems to be around having a nice
atmospheric romp through fire enemies. While figuring out how
to dodge some obstacles was fun (especially the parts with the
sinking platforms and upside down podoboos), the creativity
wasn't pushed too much and I felt like it could have been
more interesting. It's a safe, but cool (hot?) level.

I really like the dark area contrasting with the background,
as it provides an interesting silhouette gimmick for the player
to figure out. It felt mostly for aesthetics though, as again,
it was only minimally creative with its utilization.

Still, there's nothing wrong with a good looking romp.

TLDR:
+ Great graphics
+ Safe but interesting and fun romp
- Could have pushed the creativity bar more

OTHER:
i wasn't really expecting this from a user named MiracleWater


-PYRO-
Fun: 16/30
Difficulty: 3/5
Creativity: 5/10
Aesthetics: 9/10
Functionality: 5/5
Total: 38/60
Comment: This was a cool level! It looked really good and after all these rompy levels with galoombas/koopas/chucks it's nice to FINALLY see stuff like firebars, podoboos (and upside down ones!!), and diagonal podoboos. And the shadow section was great. Enemies were placed well, there was a good amount of challenge, overall it was just a very solid level!


-KOOPSTER-
FUN: 21/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 5/10
AESTHETICS: 9/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL SCORE: 44/60

Looks really nice! Not very special level design-wise though, it's very simple and easy and a bit short. I really like the black segment though, and I really dig the fire chains as obstacles there. This level had a lot of potential, man!


-S.N.N.-
FUN: 25/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 8/10
AESTHETICS: 8/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL: 50/60

COMMENTS: I enjoyed this level a lot. You had a very coherent gimmick and you stuck to this throughout the level while slowly building up the obstacles until the last third, which I feel was a bit too similar in progression/design to the first third. I really liked the silhouette area - not only were the graphics pleasant, but they were designed in such a way that nothing felt unfair (i.e. you could see where the lava bubbles and sprites were). Great work.


So yeah, as I said on YT, I had part of that level finished earlier this year. I wanted to make a new one from scratch specifically for this, but I knew I wouldn't have enough time. Like my VLDC8 judge level, which used a bunch of mushroom scales, I wanted to try something similar with this (i.e. using a generally vanilla concept in unique ways). It's a bit of a risk, as there are very few "good" underwater levels out there, but I thought I'd take advantage of the general slowness that they tend to have and build a level around that. The only custom asset in the level - aside from the graphics - is the ON/OFF net, and the rest is vanilla. The two other things worth pointing out based on the video: yes, a lot of the level's intention was that you would swim without pressing the up/down buttons (i.e. to get the second dragon coin), and the music is Hourai Gakuen no Bouken - Ruin in the Jungle.

That being said, thanks for the positive comments from everyone (minus hobz but that's only because i ranked him lower than idol maybe x d).

Also, if anyone is interested, I can post the full coffee break ROM with paths enabled between the levels, should anyone actually want to play it.

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ft029
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby ft029 » 2 years ago

the level is actually SNN's stomach, and the wavy background is the coffee
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idol
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby idol » 2 years ago

it doesn't matter what snn rated my level. our love is eternal anyway

also yeah post the judge level rom
must b love on tha brain
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MiracleWater
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby MiracleWater » 2 years ago

Wow ok, my level is right next to a judge level that's cool (and kinda frightening).
Anyway, not much to say. I was mostly going for a romp style level, but I thought it might be cool to base it around a theme you don't see romps in too often and I think it worked out quite well. After stepping away from the level for a while then coming back, I think it definitely could have been a bit longer and something different could have been done with the last room. Oh well, it was fun participating.

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Divemissile
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby Divemissile » 2 years ago

snn's level was neat, but it really looked like it could be only enjoyed if you already dig water levels. i don't dig them much myself, but that's mainly due to the claustrophobia, and that level didn't help much at all with that. still a well designed level.

magma chamber was cool, but (as much of a backhanded compliment this is) i only really liked it 'cause of the flavor. the volcano setting is amazing and looks pretty too

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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby S.N.N. » 2 years ago

Full "coffee break" IPS, per request. Starts the player at Verdant Valley (FrozenQuills), and from there you can press up to get to Lethal Lakeside (Koopster), right to get to Frozen Cliffside (Pyro), and down to get to Thalassian Gorge (S.N.N.). I'll add it to the first post for future reference.

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Money
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby Money » 2 years ago

Nice levels today, esp the second, tho the difficulty spikes a bit too hard in the second half imo.

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Voltgloss
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby Voltgloss » 2 years ago

colgate is actually a registered trademark not an unregistered trademark 0/10

(the 0/10 is for myself for actually pausing the video at the beginning to check this)
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Grounder
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby Grounder » 2 years ago

oh man ytp reference
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Pyro
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Re: MaGL 3 results: mario kong country

Postby Pyro » 2 years ago

Top 11!!!
a guy
Cloaytonem2
ft029
idol
kuposan3
Lazy
Le Neveu De Rameau
lolyoshi
morsel/morceau (aka rUdEbOi4000)
nothobz
Sturg


Guesses and predictions anyone? :3
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🦆 RedMageSusie
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby RedMageSusie » 2 years ago

Money on a guy
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Le Neveu de Rameau
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby Le Neveu de Rameau » 2 years ago

Dental Desert is a fun level with an amusing æsthetic and a brilliantly executed punchline. The above-ground sections do seem a bit easy compared to the underground portion, though; it makes the midpoint feel a touch lopsided as a result. Still, it's a solid and enjoyable level neverthless. Not sure exactly what those SML snakes are meant to be though, either.

SMCslevel engine's level on the other hand felt...unfortunate. I was super-pumped in the first half; a great æsthetic, good design, and a steady progression introducing an interesting and unique gimmick. I was totally hyped for what it would give me in the second half. Then the second half actually happened, and the fun evaporated.

The second half of this level seems an unfortunate poster child for what might be called the "academic" approach to level design; that is, it seems more interested in exploring the possible variations on a particular gimmick rather than providing an enjoyable experience.. I don't simply mean that the second half is too long, hard, and punishing (though is); despite the obvious effort that went into designing the individual setups, the second half as a whole just feels less well put-together when taken as a whole. Look at the structure of the two halves: the first is organic, with each challenge flowing into the next. It feels like Mario is progressing seemlessly through a genuine environment. The gimmick is introduced gradually, piece-by-piece, with increasing complexity. There's a good sense of motion and natural profession on all fronts, and it really feels well-designed and enjoyable.

The second half, in contrast, feels like a series of isolated challenge rooms, usually with a wall separating each one from the next--the goal is stop, tear down a wall, move to the next room, stop, tear down another, move on, with little continuity between them. This approach can work in a level designed around it, of course, but it doesn't work here, especially after the structure the first half promises with its careful structure and constant forward movement. The second half abandons this completely, and ends up feeling less like a level, and more like the results of a brainstorming session for potential setups for the block-spawning gimmick. Some of these setups are great, of course, but others--spinning along the fast rail with a fuzzy while trying to hit the block, or trying to navigate around the fuzzy and hopping flame--feel sort of luck based, and just not very enjoyable. And these setups in particular are all located near the beginning of the level, souring the player's mood for later, better setups, as well as providing an unfortunate punishment to repeat every time the player loses. And due to the length (and one's tendency to get bored and careless when repeating already cleared challenge rooms), there's plenty of opportunity for losses.

Even with all these points, I don't think the second half was necessary bad, just...lacking in restraint. Sometimes it's a good idea to leave things on the cutting room floor, and had this level been willing to cut out some of the more tedious setups, I think it would have been a much tighter and enjoyable experience on the whole. As it stands, though, it's a great concept which sort of loses the fun in the second half, which made me a bit sad. Still no denying the ingenuity (or rather engineuity) that went into designing it, though.

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Cyril
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby Cyril » 2 years ago

dental desert was solid but didn't really feel superior to a lot of the entries we've seen recently
kodou needed another midpoint somewhere, like, sure maybe it's in the middle of the level but the first half is basic and easy and the second half is incredibly dangerous and feels three times as long

judges be wack yo, is my opinion on the matter
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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FPzero
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Re: MaGL 3 results: all aboard the wave train

Postby FPzero » 2 years ago

Yeah I was less enamored with the second level than raocow and I think Rameau's Nephew summarized my feelings on it better than I could. While they featured the same elements, the two halves of the level couldn't feel more different in actual playstyle. The first half was standard level fare with unique additions and the second half was essentially a puzzle level with those same additions. Had the level gone for one or the other as the whole entry, I think it would have been better.

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Mata Hari
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Re: MaGL 3 results: chatter those teeth

Postby Mata Hari » 2 years ago

what are those heads tho

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idol
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Re: MaGL 3 results: chatter those teeth

Postby idol » 2 years ago

ah yes, we're at that part in the contest where raocow declares his immense undying love for every single entry he plays

yeah i didn't like levelengines level much. very interesting gimmick but the amount of stuff to do between midpoints with the precision it asks becomes kinda really tedious when you die
must b love on tha brain
[avi source]


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