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MaGL 3 results: moral of the story: laziness always prevails

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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by S.N.N. »

JUDGES' COMMENTS AND SCORES ON 49TH PLACE:

49th: Zatsupachi
-FROZENQUILLS-
FUN: 9/30
DIFFICULTY: 3/5
CREATIVITY: 6/10
AESTHETICS: 6/10 (3/5 GFX + 3/5 MUS)
FUNCTIONALITY: 3/5

TOTAL: 27/60

COMMENTS:
This was pretty much a mix of good ideas with questionable
design.

The level starts off each section with some precision jumping
before diving into the meat of the level, which is alright in
terms of setting up the environment, but it could get
repetitive.

While the layer 2 section in the first half had good ideas,
the difficulty sort of wobbled a bit. I saw the intent of having
the skeletons oriented such that you have to dodge bones in the
safe areas, but I can stay in one place most of the time and not
have to worry about them. There is also one particular bony
beetle placement that made it really tricky to get into a safe
area before the lava gets you.

The second half was a lot cooler (hotter), using the mostly
underutilized side scrolling layer 2 in a vertical section, and
there are some interesting jumps here and there. However, this
section is loads easier as small mario as it can get cramped at
times.

The boss fight of the normal exit was alright and pretty typical
but the boo fight in the secret exit was pretty bad and felt
like it was untested. Mario's sprite is missing, the big boo's
face is glitched up, and it's just a mess to navigate the boo
cloud to get three hits on the boss.

So while I saw the interesting intentional design this level had
it needs some work on its execution.

TLDR:
+ Good intentional design
- Needs better execution
- Functionality issues with the secret boss

OTHER:
'sup world


-PYRO-
Fun: 7/30
Difficulty: 4/5
Creativity: 3/10
Aesthetics: 7/10
Functionality: 3/5
Total: 24/60
Comment: Congratulations, you made the worst Big Boo fight in the history of forever! It's so fun being assaulted by a boo cloud and not being able to actually see where you are. Besides that glaring problem, this level is uuh...kind of a mess. The atmosphere you set up is actually pretty good, and the music is really nice. First half is also actually pretty good, and there's some clever placement of enemies. Second half kiiiinda is awful though. It feels like you just placed the lava pillars first and put in the blocks as an afterthought (or the other way around). It's kind of a giant mess and it's frustrating to navigate through because the blocks are just strewn everywhere with (seemingly) no thought put into their placement. The room is also completely devoid of enemies as well, the only thing to actually avoid is lava. And the level just kinda ends with a typical Wendy fight. It's overall kind of a bleh level.


-KOOPSTER-
FUN: 12/30
DIFFICULTY: 2/5
CREATIVITY: 6/10
AESTHETICS: 9/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 3/5

TOTAL SCORE: 32/60

This seemed really good at the start, but the gameplay didn't flow well at all with me. The first half felt really weird to play cause dropping off of layer 2 is really awkward, and the lava is really picky. I didn't like the rush-stop-rush-stop mix all that much, nor the low ceilings. The second half was basically precision jumping, which I could dig if the punishment wasn't immediate death (and it's waaay easier to play as small Mario). The non-door path is broken if you enter from the midpoint because the layer 2 isn't set to move from that screen, and the big boo battle is really really annoying when you can't see yourself y'know lol. Yeah, not a very enjoyable one. But I still kinda appreciate the intention, it had a bunch of potential!


-S.N.N.-
FUN: 16/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 7/10
AESTHETICS: 7/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 2/5

TOTAL: 36/60

COMMENTS: This level has a great atmosphere, and the design reflects that rather decently. I like how the second half utilized horizontal fire pillars with debris that you had to climb up. I also liked the usage of the Dry Bones in the first half, as the scrolling + their projectiles provided some interesting challenges. However, I feel that the platforming got a bit redundant after a while and that there wasn't really enough variety in the layer 2 areas to warrant making them as long as you did. There were also two semi-major bugs I noticed - first, if you started over from the midway, the layer 2 stopped working on the path to the Boo boss (and that boss itself .. yikes). Secondly, the bottom of the horizontal fire columns (second half) acted as hurt blocks, whereas the top instantly killed you - a bit inconsistent.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by TaviTurnip »

Am I seriously the only person who thought not being able to see yourself in the Boo fight was a great gimmick?
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"Not being able to tell where you were" is a pretty severe sign that you shouldn't... be playing games. Or be doing anything that involves motor skills at all.

I'm going to just do what I told Zygl I'd do and stay out of this thread for the rest of this contest. I've already had it up to here with the one thing I was hoping wouldn't happen before submissions even ended and hoo boy it's happening constantly.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by 10204307 »

How are you supposed to tell where you are if you can't even see the sprite of the character you're controlling?
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by Sturg »

I think just holding the blue block by itself can be a clever enough indication as to where you are, I can see that being somewhat implemented fairly well.

Although the added boo ocean I felt was too much, specifically when mixed with the "gimmick" in question.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by Alice »

TaviTurnip wrote:"Not being able to tell where you were" is a pretty severe sign that you shouldn't... be playing games. Or be doing anything that involves motor skills at all.
It's really difficult to tell where you are when you have no idea where you even spawn on the screen to begin with. Combined with the precision required to constantly dodge the boo cloud that puts you in a situation where you have quite a small chance of surviving.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by nothobz »

i thought controlling a little flashing block was really cute with the little eyes and whatnot
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by raocow »

vip3 did it better by garanteeing that you'd have a cape to start with (the cape stay visible during this particular glitch)
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by Zygl »

ft029 wrote:I did like the boo boss fight though. Having to use a throw block to see where Mario is... pretty nice gimmick tbh. I just think the player should start off in a safer area or have an extra powerup.
TaviTurnip wrote:Am I seriously the only person who thought not being able to see yourself in the Boo fight was a great gimmick?
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I can agree that it's a solid gimmick, personally the main problem I have with it here is it feels just kinda tacked-on for its own sake given its complete thematic disconnect with the rest of the level - granted, it's presumably by accident, but it still has that sort of feeling to it.
The real 'problem' here I feel like is more the boo ceiling than the invisibility; I suspect raocow would've done a fair bit of dying even if he could see himself simply because the boo ceiling is rather aggressively murderous and rude. :p
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by ft029 »

The boo ceiling is only a major threat at first. After that, the pattern sets in to your head.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by Divemissile »

that 2nd 48th place level was super good; i wonder why it ranked so low.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: overdosing on ghosts

Post by S.N.N. »

JUDGES' SCORES AND COMMENTS FOR ALL OF THESE 48TH PLACE ENTRIES:

48th (1): LunarRainbowShyGuy
-FROZENQUILLS
FUN: 11/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 4/10
AESTHETICS: 5/10 (2/5 GFX + 3/5 MUS)
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL: 29/60

COMMENTS:
Pretty rompy ascent with a lot of thwomps and such.

The only thing that stood out in this level are that it had a
lot of thwomps and thwimps in it, so I had to be careful when
climbing it.

I did like how the blue coins marked thwomp areas since they
were usually offscreen.

But still, this didn't really push any boundaries, so this level
is only okay.

TLDR:
+ Nicely focused around thwomps and thwimps
- Could do better across the board

OTHER:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3EC6_DNduY


-PYRO-
Fun: 10/30
Difficulty: 1/5
Creativity: 4/10
Aesthetics: 5/10
Functionality: 5/5
Total: 25/60
Comment: This level probably would have been right at home in like JUMP or something. It's pretty much purely vanilla but with a tiny little gimmick, thwomps in a grassy vertical level. I liked some of the setups, but the level was just so short! I beat it in like 5 minutes, and I kinda wished it went on for longer? Props for using thwomps like that in a vertical level and making it fair with the coin warnings.


-KOOPSTER-
FUN: 19/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 6/10
AESTHETICS: 6/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL SCORE: 40/60

Now this is a simple and short level, but I like it! I wish there were indications for a few of the thwimps too, it would make sense and make a few bits a little more fair. A few segments felt empty but the level still gets its job done. I really like the spot of the secret moon~


-S.N.N.-
FUN: 12/30
DIFFICULTY: 2/5
CREATIVITY: 3/10
AESTHETICS: 4/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL: 26/60

COMMENTS: This level felt very haphazardly designed. Many parts of it were completely barren, yet other parts were saturated with enemies. There was one part where I jumped into a Chuck + Thwimp combo (somewhat blind if you're going quick), and then I climbed up a bunch of clouds with no enemies at all. There was another part later on with a Thwomp + Hammer Bros, followed by more nothingness. While the idea of climbing a mountain with Thwomps is interesting in theory, I feel like the execution here was sub-par and felt boring as a result.


48th (2): HatKid
-FROZENQUILLS-
HatKid - A Castle level

FUN: 7/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 4/10
AESTHETICS: 7/10 (3/5 GFX + 4/5 MUS)
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL: 27/60

COMMENTS:
An OK but short level.

There were some sprites here and there but it still felt
strangely empty at some parts. There was also like only two
short sections of this whole level and it felt like it ended
way too quickly.

Some of the net koopa arrangements were pretty neat, and the
castle enemy placements were fine.

Basically, it's okay, but also felt underdeveloped.

TLDR:
+ Some nice castle enemy setups
- Felt really underdeveloped and short

OTHER:
that lowercase l is pretty important


-PYRO-
Fun: 9/30
Difficulty: 1/5
Creativity: 2/10
Aesthetics: 7/10
Functionality: 5/5
Total: 24/60
Comment: Maaaaaan. That first section looked super nice and showed so much promise but then it just kinda dropped off. There were a couple obstacles and then a fence maze and then oops the end. I would have loved to see more of this, because the first section was super nice! And that swing remix thing of that one Castlevania song sounded super nice.
Possible Baserom Notes: easy


-KOOPSTER-
FUN: 17/30
DIFFICULTY: 3/5
CREATIVITY: 5/10
AESTHETICS: 6/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL SCORE: 36/60

It has a few neat setups, but it's also sort of a mess of different ideas lol, and it ends really fast, making the final product... a pretty incoherent thing. It was fun, but a few segments like the "maze" could've been made a lot better.


-S.N.N.-
FUN: 15/30
DIFFICULTY: 3/5
CREATIVITY: 4/10
AESTHETICS: 6/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL: 33/60

COMMENTS: The first half of this level is great - it's well-designed, has some interesting set-ups, and nice aesthetics. I don't know what happened during the vertical portion though. A lot of it feels empty. You have this giant climbing net portion with a couple of enemies, and then the level just kind of ends. I feel like with some polish, the whole package could have been really good. Loved the Bloody Tears remix though.


48th (3): Griflion
-FROZENQUILLS-
FUN: 8/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 3/10
AESTHETICS: 6/10 (2/5 GFX + 4/5 MUS)
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL: 26/60

COMMENTS:
This is a level that just sorta happened.

It feels like something right out of the original SMW, but it
doesn't really do much that is interesting with its obstacles.
A lot of the boo rings require waiting and there are some
enemies that just exist to populate the level.

Getting all the dragon coins requires backtracking with a
p-switch and using the coin bridge block which was sorta
interesting, and I like the huge spike jumps at the beginning,
but that's pretty much it in terms of level creativity.

The best thing the level did was deliver on its atmosphere I
suppose, but it could have been way more enjoyable.

TLDR:
+ Design is ok and not frustrating
- Could have done more across the board


-PYRO-
Fun: 10/30
Difficulty: 2/5
Creativity: 3/10
Aesthetics: 6/10
Functionality: 5/5
Total: 25/60
Comment: It's a kinda empty edit of Donut Secret. It's nice to see stuff like Boo Circles and Dry Bones being used in an icy cave environment like this, but the whole level just felt empty and there wasn't much to it. The steep slope section was weirdly tough though, and the puzzle with the coin guide and p switch was a weirdly big amount of effort for just a dragon coin. Overall, the level is just...fine. It's a distinctly 'there' level.


-KOOPSTER-
FUN: 18/30
DIFFICULTY: 4/5
CREATIVITY: 6/10
AESTHETICS: 7/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL SCORE: 40/60

I would give you a lot more points if this was longer! I like the general athmosphere of the level and the very steep slope segment is really fun - wish there was more of it. The P-switch detour is kinda a too big of a detour, though, especially for the length of the level. But otherwise, this doesn't really commit any crimes, it's just... short!


-S.N.N.-
FUN: 13/30
DIFFICULTY: 3/5
CREATIVITY: 3/10
AESTHETICS: 5/10
FUNCTIONALITY: 5/5

TOTAL: 29/60

COMMENTS: An okay little romp level, but it didn't really do anything to stand out from other entries in this contest. I felt that it was a bit on the short side as well. The sprite set-ups didn't feel all that interesting, and in most cases you simply had 1-2 of the same type of enemy next to each other without any sort of challenge to pass them. Overall, build on the length and make the architecture/spritework a tad more complex, and I think you'll have a good level on your hands.



The Bloody Tears remix in the second level can be found here.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by HatKid »

A couple words about my level:
Fisrt off, I am a little surprised my level got this far, but seeing the levels before it, I think it is a good spot for it.
I was rushing real fast for everything that wasn't the intro area, so yeah, the vertical area (maybe I should stop making vertical areas, they never turn out decent) was barely thought out.
For the longest time, I never realised that Lui37 released his Bloody Tears remix. I had the spc, I'd listen to it and be like "Man, I wish I could use this in levels..."
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by cheez8 »

Man, 48th (46th?) places were all pretty solid! Looks like we're already getting into that part of the contest.

...I feel like this has happened before, though.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by Zephyr_DragonLord »

not using Smashmouth for the Thwomp link Quills? for shame. Yeah, I didn't have too many problems with any of these levels. Even the Ice level was nice. I don't often see coin trails even being used, so it's nice one was used for a Dragon Coin.

I don't have too terribly much to say about the others, but they were nice. HatKid's level had a real nice background at the beginning and was refreshing, and RainbowShyGuy made a fine Thowmp level.

As for the level before those... I wanted to like it so badly. The first half was tight. But the second half fell flat, largely due to both paths being rather difficult... Those fire pillars are neat, though.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur omelette

Post by FPzero »

Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:The bottom lava not killing you is probably a case of Zatsupachi respriting munchers into bottom lava to work around SMW's weird lava behaviors - if I'm not mistaken you literally cannot have a two-block-high lava thing like that normally? There is a tile that works as a functional upside-down lava tile, I recall - I've used it myself - but I forget its ID and I don't know that it'd create the desired effect in this case. Might have to test it, see what happens.
Last page but this gives me a quick opportunity to explain lava tiles in SMW. There are two tiles generally associated with Bubbling Lava:

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You can see them along the top row there. The bubbling tile actually does not kill Mario. It's main purpose is to act as a buoyant surface for enemies and floating platforms so really it acts more like water (It might actually be water as far as the game's concerned). This allows Mario to stand on platforms that float in lava without dying instantly. The red tile next to the bubbling one is the tile that actually kills Mario instantly, regardless of powerup status.

This means that there is no real good way to do proper upside down lava without some workarounds. If you use the bubbling tile with its current "Acts Like" status but flip it upside down, you'll often run across issues where Mario's swimming frames activate for a few seconds if you jump into it, instead of him dying instantly. The other options are to make the bubbling surface act like the inner lava tile and instantly kill Mario, or to make it act like a Muncher, like we saw here. The other problem is that the 2 tile high sideways pillars we saw in the level basically can't work without making them insta-kill because otherwise Mario will just be able to swim through them. This has the problem of making tiny lava hops really dangerous because at any time Mario might step one pixel too close to the lava surface and die.

So yeah, there really isn't a better way to handle this situation without the author having made 3 tile high sideways pillars or something. Lava is just a weird object to work with outside its intended uses. And the angled Cave Lava tiles like in Vanilla Dome 3 get even weirder with their collision and killboxes.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by morsel/morceau »

If I may add to this lava information,

The top tile:
-acts as water for mario;
-acts as water for sprites, but also creates lava splashes and kills some sprites.
The bottom tile:
-the top of the tile kills mario, but the tile also acts as water so he can swim in the bottom portion of it;
-acts as water for sprites, and doesn't create splashes or kill sprites.

So to make upside down lava, use a custom block that acts as the top tile of lava for sprites and kills mario via one of the offsets ('mario body' probably).
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by nathanisbored »

It's more than a bit weird how Dragon Coins are generally considered a better reward than 1-ups in romhacks. I suspect it's because they're shiny.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by ft029 »

nathanisbored wrote:It's more than a bit weird how Dragon Coins are generally considered a better reward than 1-ups in romhacks. I suspect it's because they're shiny.
dragon coins also allow the player to get fast shoes
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by Reecer7 »

HatKid's level was super good, and I'm kind of disappointed to see something with so much flair despite being vanilla surrounded by much more rompy levels like these. But maaaybe I'm just being seduced by that incredible Bloody Tears remix.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by LunarRainbowShyGuy »

Oh man my level's part of a three way tie. With how good some recent levels have been I'm surprised my level didn't show up sooner. Looking at the judges comments it looks like my level was a bit too short/easy. Due to the nature of the level I couldn't really make it much longer but I could have, and in hindsight, probably should have, made it more difficult; after reading the comments about how some parts of the level are lacking enemies and watching raocow's video again, I definitely agree. Anyway here's a few other things I have to say about my level.

The part right before the midpoint with one thwimp and a conspicuously empty set of clouds was supposed to have two thwimps but one of them despawned somehow. I probably should have redesigned that part considering the fact that that happened multiple times when I tested the level.

Shortly after the midpoint there's two yellow coins meant to trick the player into thinking there's a thwomp above if they're not paying close attention. this might not have tricked raocow (and I have a feeling no one else was fooled by this either) but despite designing the level I stopped for a second while playing myself before realizing there was no thwomp. This happened to me every time.

There's a hidden moon to the right of where the second Yoshi is. There's a series of clouds leading down to a platform that you can see the bottom of near the charging chuck. There's also a block containing a vine that leads to the power up a bit higher up.

Overall I'm happy with how I did considering this was my first time making a level with Lunar Magic. Someone in the Youtube comments said my level felt like an official Nintendo level, which is more or less what I was going for, so that's nice. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the levels.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by nothobz »

are we finally out of the era of frustrated raocow? can we go back to being positive and encouraging to one another's levels again? i hope so :)

e: all of the levels today were very lovely! LunarRainbowetcetc had a really fun idea that was executed very well (player goes up while thwomps are going down, it's great). Like raocow said it felt a little under-utilized, but it's always better to want more than less! Hatkid had some great visual aesthetic and great ideas and stuff! Lion had a really different idea i think that, for a vanilla level, they pulled off really well! Great job one and all!!
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by King of GETs »

As promised, here is the video showing off the secret exit for my level.
nothobz wrote:are we finally out of the era of frustrated raocow? can we go back to being positive and encouraging to one another's levels again? i hope so :)
I can think of a few levels remaining that will frustrate raocow a little bit, but it's not because they're hard but because of raocow's play style.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by lolyoshi »

nothobz wrote:are we finally out of the era of frustrated raocow? can we go back to being positive and encouraging to one another's levels again? i hope so :)
morsel/morceau's level hasn't been played yet, so no.
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by Koopster »

@ Big boo boss in Zatsu's entry: arguably a good gimmick, but getting killed instantly for a lack of a proper introduction to it after a really tiring first half is just eh.

Today's levels were all cool! Maybe I scored the ice level a bit too much for what it is lol, bit I'm still sorta enchanted by it.

Oh man keeping track, so difficult!
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Re: MaGL 3 results: dinosaur land world tour (tm)

Post by FrozenQuills »

Divemissile's level was more of a 'play around with Peach's abilities' sorta level which was nice, but could've done more with it.
And man, Koopster's level is really neat. I don't think I've seen a level with that many imaginative ways to use dolphins.
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