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Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - 74c - a little extra slightly more further over there

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep48 - Surprise Chickens [The Deadly Ninja Assassin Squad]

Postby QubicTom » 4 months ago

Kshaard wrote: Sorry to ask this again, but I'm (perpetually) wondering where the music in the last level was from. Sounds like some 80s/90s ninja game, maybe Gaiden, though that's probably just the theme of the level speaking. I just feel I need to brush up on my VGM recognition skills following my atrocious performance in the last contest.
It's okay, please ask these questions whenever you want! I'm afraid I don't know the answer, but maybe someone here does? If nobody can find it, ask Sturg, he's probably the most knowledgeable person on the talkhaus when it comes to video game music!

Was it my fault that I had trouble with the chest? I kept missing the power up blocks because of their colour, they blended in with the rest of the level. It must have just been tunnel vision on my part.
Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art

Yesterday I did my first No Star World attempt in JUMP, playing live along with nathanisbored, lolyoshi, ft029 and Pyro. It was a race, and they all finished in around two hours. It took me 7 hours 51 minutes. Ludwig's Grindhouse and Bowser's Castle were three hours of that. I did the second half of New Jersey in my first attempt, and World 7 went really well apart from those last two levels. I recommend you check out the world record run by nathanisbored here: JUMP - No Star World in 1:32:28

These races occur most Saturdays at around noon EST, and everybody is welcome to take part. Contact me or nathanisbored if you're interested! If a Mario moron like me can do it, anybody can do it!

Almost forgot the voting options!
Crazed Crayon Combat - RealLink
Dairy Disaster - Paralars
Mail Delivery!! - ProfessorDemetri
Sagan Leagues Above the Surface - Ometeotl
The Meaning of Sharp - noseman999
Time Will Hide Your Way - Septentrion Pleiades
Unpleasant Intruder - ProfessorDemetri

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep48 - Surprise Chickens [The Deadly Ninja Assassin Squad]

Postby Grounder » 4 months ago

QubicTom wrote: Was it my fault that I had trouble with the chest? I kept missing the power up blocks because of their colour, they blended in with the rest of the level. It must have just been tunnel vision on my part.
No, it was pretty much the only part that raocow had trouble with, too, as you saw.
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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art [Block Fort]

Postby Tobi555 » 4 months ago

Voting for The Meaning of Sharp...it's time.

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art [Block Fort]

Postby ft029 » 4 months ago

Tobi555 wrote: Voting for The Meaning of Sharp...it's time.
Right after his 8 hour JUMP run! You are evil!

so glad we started the race early. If we started at 8 pm EST or something you would have been up until way after sunrise!



That being said I'm voting for that too.
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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art [Block Fort]

Postby Tobi555 » 4 months ago

ft029 wrote: Right after his 8 hour JUMP run! You are evil!
That being said I'm voting for that too.
Hey it has to happen eventually, might as well get it over with now :P :lol:

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep48 - Surprise Chickens [The Deadly Ninja Assassin Squad]

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 months ago

QubicTom wrote: Yesterday I did my first No Star World attempt in JUMP, playing live along with nathanisbored, lolyoshi, ft029 and Pyro. It was a race, and they all finished in around two hours. It took me 7 hours 51 minutes.
You're did better than I. I just tried this route and got permanently stuck in chuck magnet (exercise for the reader: How?).
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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art [Block Fort]

Postby QubicTom » 4 months ago

Grounder wrote: No, it was pretty much the only part that raocow had trouble with, too, as you saw.
I actually haven't seen his video yet - I just skipped through until he got the treasure chest! If 7TC7 still browses the forum, I'd ask why they chose to colour the power-up blocks and Parrot Coins white instead of yellow. Such an odd decision!
Tobi555 wrote: Voting for The Meaning of Sharp...it's time.
How would you rate this level's difficulty in the context of the entire hack?

I actually quite liked this level, it was a lot of fun, never boring! Tomorrow's video will be of the original version of the level, which I feel the opposite about! I'm going to open voting early, so let me know what you want to see next!
Ep50 - Perforation Palace

Voting options:
Crazed Crayon Combat - RealLink
Dairy Disaster - Paralars
Mail Delivery!! - ProfessorDemetri
Sagan Leagues Above the Surface - Ometeotl
Time Will Hide Your Way - Septentrion Pleiades
Unpleasant Intruder - ProfessorDemetri

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art [Block Fort]

Postby Tobi555 » 4 months ago

QubicTom wrote: How would you rate this level's difficulty in the context of the entire hack?

I actually quite liked this level, it was a lot of fun, never boring! Tomorrow's video will be of the original version of the level, which I feel the opposite about! I'm going to open voting early, so let me know what you want to see next!
Wow great job Tom! :D Well in terms of difficulty this is probably in my top 5 although the original was definitely higher placed. IMO there's only like 2 or 3 really difficult levels left...and 2 are post game :lol:

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art [Block Fort]

Postby QubicTom » 4 months ago

Tobi555 wrote: Well in terms of difficulty this is probably in my top 5 although the original was definitely higher placed.
I totally agree, this version of the level is considerably more difficult. The first half is fine, it's the second half that's annoying.

Really glad noseman999 decided to cut out the last section for the revitalized version of A2MT.
Ep50o - The Original Meaning of Sharp

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art [Block Fort]

Postby Tobi555 » 4 months ago

QubicTom wrote:
Tobi555 wrote: Well in terms of difficulty this is probably in my top 5 although the original was definitely higher placed.
I totally agree, this version of the level is considerably more difficult. The first half is fine, it's the second half that's annoying.

Really glad noseman999 decided to cut out the last section for the revitalized version of A2MT.
Ep50o - The Original Meaning of Sharp
Responding to what you said about the difficult levels, A2MT suffered heavily from mismanagement and lack of communication (what with the game having over 5 different managers), and according to a post on one of raocow's A2MT update videos from years back the game was supposed to be more of a kouhai hack from the start which also might have hurt it. Voting for Mail Delivery!!

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep49 - Irrelevant Pixel Art [Block Fort]

Postby QubicTom » 4 months ago

Tobi555 wrote: Responding to what you said about the difficult levels, A2MT suffered heavily from mismanagement and lack of communication
It really shows today! Some basic testing back in the day would have saved this level from itself. Unless I did something wrong!

A forced podoboo jump, blind jumps over lava and an unmarked secret exit that you have to do small with unannounced falling objects to dodge. The graphic replacements were interesting, though!
Ep51 - This Level Stinks

Voting options:
Crazed Crayon Combat - RealLink
hey there sewage castle - Cmbheadquarters
Mail Delivery!! - ProfessorDemetri
Sagan Leagues Above the Surface - Ometeotl
Time Will Hide Your Way - Septentrion Pleiades
Unpleasant Intruder - ProfessorDemetri

I was seriously debating to make the voting options be a list of different Mario romhacks to play, if the rest of A2MT is going to be filled with dumb decisions that make the levels unfun (which so far has been a theme of the forest overworld!). But I feel better now, so let's soldier on with this silly game :lol:

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep51 - This Level Stinks [Dairy Disaster]

Postby GlitchMr » 4 months ago

Wow, so A2MT usually has questionable design decisions.

As somebody who watched the video, but haven't played the level, I may be wrong, but some parts actually looked really neat level design wise (for instance, Koopa obstacle at 0:51, power up block puzzle at 2:13, and a few more, but I don't feel like rewatching the entire video to point those, just saying there are more good parts than in average A2MT level).

Too bad that the level goes beyond the usual questionable design decisions. Podoboo jumps are plain and simple RNG, and this level doesn't let player jump just after Podoboo appears (like Depraved Stronghold allows). Trial and error in section with falling Spinies is just dumb. Chest location is just stupid. And that in addition to usual questionable level design decisions.

Jumping into two tile gaps (seen for instance on 18:11) is actually fairly tricky. If you touch a wall, being able to pass it, whether it succeeds or not is essentially RNG. The trick is to not touch a wall while performing duck jump or small Mario jump, but that by itself is fairly tricky. That said, having a two tile corridor entrance without safe ground below (in case of jump failing, to jump from it) is a bad design.

Voting for "Unpleasant Intruder".

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep51 - This Level Stinks [Dairy Disaster]

Postby Tobi555 » 4 months ago

The message for the Cat llama showed up because Jungle world is based on the yoshi island submap which is what the message is tied to :) Also, voting for Unpleasant Intruder, it should be fun :)

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep51 - This Level Stinks [Dairy Disaster]

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 months ago

The awkward difficulty probably comes from a number of factors. Many designers were inexperienced, so they didn't have a good handle on playability and flow (watch this!), and they were being told to 'make it challenging', 'have a gimmick', 'frustrate raocow' (well, maybe not this one, because no one need be told that), all these creating artificial problems. I think a lot of self-testing was done with savestates: There are still people today who think a VIP-like hack is supposed to played with tools, and even people who should know better did this routinely (raocow said he tested sections of Rupture in Reality with a savestate at the beginning of each and then stuck them all together; Argumentable said he had never beaten Starry Night without savestates); actually, the VIPs had a rule that you had to be able to beat your own level within the 5 starting lives (but, Was it followed? Probably, since even I can reliably manage most of the really tough levels after beating them for the first time). JUMP might have similarly frustrating levels were it not for the great testing drive by worldpeace, et al (did you know the author of Pixel Perfect made a video of himself beating his level and it took several hours?). I think the enjoyment or lack of it in tackling these hacks will come from the feeling of trust: Does the author know what he's doing, and is his level going to become tractable? [This must be why people collapse like a pricked balloon at the sight of my name.] I look at ASPE, and it also has levels with daunting gimmicks and levels with trial and error, which for some will be unfun and unfair; but I find the gimmicks are something to get under the skin of and master, and the trial and error not actually unfair, because ever death is a step forward with the level becoming more manageable, and so the game is enjoyable for me -- but, Why do I not feel this with A2MT? It's because I do not trust the authors.
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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep51 - This Level Stinks [Dairy Disaster]

Postby Ryrir » 4 months ago

I still don't think that the podobo jumps in Dairy Disaster are actually supposed to be podobo jumps. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever if you take the rest of the level into account.

The more likely explanation is that the dude built this level in lunar magic (thinking that you were able to do these jumps normally) and never actually opened the level in an actual emulator to playtest it.

People like to complain about the VIPs and ASPE, but like morsel said, the main difference is that I truly believe that the authors of these hacks were able to beat their own levels without tools without any problems (which still doesn't mean that they're actually fun to play / have good design!)

Some of these A2MT levels feel like their own author never actually played them at all.

The interesting part is that the original ASMT stands the test of time a lot better. You could play that game today and still have a lot of fun for the most part, so you can't really blame all of A2MT's problems purely on the time that it was made in.

Voting Mail Delivery
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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep51 - This Level Stinks [Dairy Disaster]

Postby QubicTom » 4 months ago

Ryrir wrote: Some of these A2MT levels feel like their own author never actually played them at all.
The interesting part is that the original ASMT stands the test of time a lot better. You could play that game today and still have a lot of fun for the most part, so you can't really blame all of A2MT's problems purely on the time that it was made in.
I wish paralars was still on the talkhaus forum so we could ask what happened (or maybe there's info in raocow's A2MT thread?). I would be willing to play ASMT at some point to see how it compares, but not just yet.
GlitchMr wrote: Too bad that the level goes beyond the usual questionable design decisions. Podoboo jumps are plain and simple RNG, and this level doesn't let player jump just after Podoboo appears (like Depraved Stronghold allows). Trial and error in section with falling Spinies is just dumb. Chest location is just stupid. And that in addition to usual questionable level design decisions.

Jumping into two tile gaps (seen for instance on 18:11) is actually fairly tricky. If you touch a wall, being able to pass it, whether it succeeds or not is essentially RNG. The trick is to not touch a wall while performing duck jump or small Mario jump, but that by itself is fairly tricky. That said, having a two tile corridor entrance without safe ground below (in case of jump failing, to jump from it) is a bad design.
It's tragic, the level had a lot of work put into it. And it did have many good bits. I put the blame on the entire A2MT team for not playtesting in a meaningful way, and for aiming to annoy raocow instead of making a good game. (Not saying that everyone made a bad level! There are just obvious problems that could have been ironed with even a little bit of testing effort).
Tobi555 wrote: The message for the Cat llama showed up because Jungle world is based on the yoshi island submap which is what the message is tied to :) Also, voting for Unpleasant Intruder, it should be fun :)
Ah! Now I understand the Cat Llama message!
morsel/morceau wrote: the VIPs had a rule that you had to be able to beat your own level within the 5 starting lives (but, Was it followed? Probably, since even I can reliably manage most of the really tough levels after beating them for the first time). ... I think the enjoyment or lack of it in tackling these hacks will come from the feeling of trust: Does the author know what he's doing, and is his level going to become tractable? ... Why do I not feel this with A2MT? It's because I do not trust the authors.
Very well said, and I certainly did not know that about the VIPs! You put into words exactly how I feel before each recording session - that sense of distrust. There have been a few obvious cases of levels not being tested properly, but equally there could have been many other levels untested that we just didn't notice because they "passed" the playability test.

Anyways, after a week of tough levels, we get kittens and baby ducks!
Ep52 - Fluffy Cuddly Cosy Goodness

I recorded Mail Delivery!! immediately after this level, and it was equally nice to play. So I still have some hope for A2MT!

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep52 - Fluffy Cuddly Cosy Goodness [Unpleasant Intruder]

Postby Tobi555 » 4 months ago

Even though Mail Delivery is recorded ima vote for Heatstroke.

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep52 - Fluffy Cuddly Cosy Goodness [Unpleasant Intruder]

Postby TaviTurnip » 4 months ago

Chiming in about nothing in particular.

- The Proton Pack item graphic was one of the ones was less confident about, but it seems to have translated well enough in-game.
- Fat R(?)aocow fanart is best fanart >:C

Also I'm impressed you even bothered putting up with the cheese level. From raocow's LP, honestly, as much as I really love the cheese level, it's probably one of the worst in the entire game, especially the second route. It's the most pure trash tier and I'm impressed that even with the A2MT design philosophy being hammered into people back then, that nobody decided it was going too far. That poor level, man.
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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep52 - Fluffy Cuddly Cosy Goodness [Unpleasant Intruder]

Postby QubicTom » 4 months ago

TaviTurnip wrote: - The Proton Pack item graphic was one of the ones was less confident about, but it seems to have translated well enough in-game.
- Fat R(?)aocow fanart is best fanart >:C

... the cheese level .. it's probably one of the worst in the entire game ... pure trash tier
A2MT's best quality comes from the chest hidden in each level. Somehow this little surprise is always worth searching for, more so than the Parrot Coins (which are usually just en route - if Parrots were earned through challenges I'd appreciate them more!). So thank you for contributing to that! Diary Disaster was pure monkey cheese, no doubt about it!
Tobi555 wrote: Even though Mail Delivery is recorded ima vote for Heatstroke.
Vote counted!

Mail Delivery!!, also by ProfessorDemetri, is really good. I needed this level, it rekindled my hope in A2MT being a good game after all. Wish I could come up with a better video title, though!
Ep53 - Going Postal

Voting options:
Crazed Crayon Combat - RealLink
Demo's Wondrous Pitfall! - Schnurmanator
Heatstroke - fieryblaze
hey there sewage castle - Cmbheadquarters
Sagan Leagues Above the Surface - Ometeotl
Time Will Hide Your Way - Septentrion Pleiades

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep53 - Going Postal [Mail Delivery!!]

Postby Ryrir » 4 months ago

In case you're still wondering: I'm pretty sure "Unpleasant Intruder" doesn't have a secret exit.

Voting "Sagan Leagues Above the Surface"
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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep52 - Fluffy Cuddly Cosy Goodness [Unpleasant Intruder]

Postby Tobi555 » 4 months ago

QubicTom wrote: Mail Delivery!!, also by ProfessorDemetri, is really good. I needed this level, it rekindled my hope in A2MT being a good game after all. Wish I could come up with a better video title, though!
Don't worry about secret exits, if you missed one I (or anyone else who played through it) will tell you if you did, as of now you've gotten every exit so far :) Another thing the cave tile for Heatstroke is red since it's a fire level but during the LP raocow mistook it as a 2 exit level and it's not, just thought id let you know ahead of time :)

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep53 - Going Postal [Mail Delivery!!]

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 months ago

The Seinfeld re-runs are canonical, being the McGuffin of What the Hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl07bL8JenE&t=2m10s.
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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep53 - Going Postal [Mail Delivery!!]

Postby QubicTom » 4 months ago

morsel/morceau wrote: The Seinfeld re-runs are canonical, being the McGuffin of What the Hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl07bL8JenE&t=2m10s.
Good to have it confirmed! I haven't watched a What The Hell playthrough because I still think that one day I might try it (far future).
Ryrir wrote: In case you're still wondering: I'm pretty sure "Unpleasant Intruder" doesn't have a secret exit.
Ah, thank you!
Tobi555 wrote: Heatstroke is red since it's a fire level
Thank you too, I definitely thought it would have two exits!

In today's episode we learn a bit of French and play World 4 of Rayman, Picture City! The boss at the end is really good; the art is impressive!
Ep54 - Suddenly Rayman

Voting options:
Demo's Wondrous Pitfall! - Schnurmanator
Heatstroke - fieryblaze
hey there sewage castle - Cmbheadquarters
Sagan Leagues Above the Surface - Ometeotl
Switch Palace - ????? [I'd be doing the Red Switch Palace, but I don't know who the first half will belong to!]
Time Will Hide Your Way - Septentrion Pleiades

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep53 - Going Postal [Mail Delivery!!]

Postby Tobi555 » 4 months ago

QubicTom wrote: In today's episode we learn a bit of French and play World 4 of Rayman, Picture City! The boss at the end is really good; the art is impressive!
This is a level that's a prime example of what inspired me to revive A2MT, levels like this have sooo much potential and talent in them that it was such a shame that they we're left in an unfinished mess. Yea, only a few levels utilized second midpoints...it really shows sometimes :lol:

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Re: Let's Play A2MT: The Fixed Edition! - Ep54 - Suddenly Rayman [Crazed Crayon Combat]

Postby GlitchMr » 4 months ago

I vote for The Red Switch.


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