Super Mario Star Road - raocow plays a 3D game (Didn't get to 64 episodes!)

[Nimono]

Super Mario 64 did it.

But the changes from star to star were obvious. What's weird is that this is the first case in this hack that something like this has happened, everything up till this point has been pretty open, if you ignore the cap switches.


You know, it's interesting how SM64 handled these 'event flags'. In Bob-omb Battlefield, King Bob-omb only appears on Star 1. Koopa the Quick (and cannon access) is only on Star 2, and the wandering Koopa Troopa is on Stars 3-6. But only if the previous condition was met. So if I skip King Bob-omb and get the Star behind the Chain Chomp, and then select Star 6, King Bob-omb will still be there, cause I didn't get his Star. If I beat him, Koopa the Quick will be waiting on Star 6, until I beat him. Then that wild Koopa Troopa can finally appear.
Another example is the Bob-omb Buddy in Whomp's Fortress, it won't appear until the Whomp King is gone. Or the Box that has the Shell in Lethal Lava Land. It won't appear in Stars 5 and 6 until the first 4 are collected (in any order).

I've thought of an interesting challenge where you trip as few event flags as possible while trying to beat SM64. You leave the levels in their original states, with the only exception being the 1st Star of Dire Dire Docks. In that case, collect every star possible before the 1st, and don't return. Also, no Cap Switches, cannons opened, or Stars from Toad and MIPS.
I did this challenge myself to see if it was possible, and it is. You can get exactly 70 stars, before reaching Bowser.
This challenge would make an interesting LP, it justs need a good name.

Yeah, it's nice how almost every star in SM64 can be collected at any time, you don't HAVE to have that star selected in order to get it, barring a few specific ones- and even then, those make perfect sense! Unlike this hack which decides to go "oh, you selected this star? sorry, no way to get this other one, but when you select that one, suddenly platforms appear out of nowhere solely for this star~ :3"

it makes more sense to have a single star affect the whole course, opening up more stars to collect, than having to select one specific star for there to be any chance of collecting it.

[FrozenQuills]

I got stuck on that last star lol; well done raocow.
Also good luck on completing spooky ghost world if you plan on doing so, since even I haven't done the coins/red coins in there yet.

[Mata Hari]

I don't understand how raocow thought to look for another overworld entrance before trying anything else. what the hell man

[Nimono]

I don't understand how raocow thought to look for another overworld entrance before trying anything else. what the hell man

Well, to be fair, the star DID say "The Other Entrance". If there was a warp pad inside the level, wouldn't it have said "The Hidden Warp" instead? ...still, I have to agree with you. It's incredibly surprising given past puzzles!

[raocow]

I mean, by then I already went through most of the level due to the coin hunt. I coudn't think of where a warp would be hidden unless it was really dumb and arbritary. Ultimately, the name of the star just seemed particular enough that I thought it would be worth checking out.

[RedMageSusie]

Oddly enough, for me, that was the first star I found in Chuckya Harbor. I saw the square over the painting and thought it was one of those "secret aquarium" type levels and went to it first.

[FPzero]

So THAT'S where that was! I was looking for an entrance into one of the buildings in the level.

[Sebby19]

Hmm, I wonder if you get back on the warp pad you came in on, if it will send you somewhere else? Most of the teleport spots in Mario 64 were 2-way, except for one in the pyramid of Shifting Sand Land.

[SAJewers]

In today's episode, we almost reach the Sub-Ocean.

[FrozenQuills]

Yep, totally expected the first bowser level to be a thing.
It's like a trial of whether you can stand some of the later courses (like course 9 lol).
Though I do agree that the first one is too hard especially with that boss fight; I found the second bowser level to be much easier or around the same difficulty.

[Divemissile]

raocow please use the jump kick when you platform

there's so many bits where it would've made your life wayyy easier

[Sebby19]

Again, I'm seeing Mario wobble back and forth like he's drunk.

I think horizontal platforming in Mario 64 is okay, its just your setup I think is still wonky. I'd love to fly to Quebec and try out your controller myself and tell you if it's off or not.
Maybe if you post a screen shot of your controller setup, some of the other guys can then pinpoint exactly how things should be.

Of coarse, lack of experience is also an issue. You were trying some movements that I knew would not have worked, and I think the Mario Cam was also creating some issues. Keep in mind the different cameras at all times.

[warpio]

holy cow... rao...

Listen to me. If you care about your sanity, you seriously NEED to work on fine-tuning your controller's analog range and deadzone so that you aren't veering off-course so much. That just shouldn't be happening. So many of those deaths did not look like the game's fault but rather a faulty controller setup.

I don't know exactly what the values should be for you because I don't have your controller, It seems like your analog input is setup so that the minimum movement speed is still quite a bit faster than what it should be, so I'm guessing you need to lower the range a bit more. It might also be that the deadzone is too high, though I don't really know.

You should be able to walk at crawling speed if you are tilting the control stick just a tiny little bit, but it seems to me like you aren't able to move that slowly, so whenever you try to correct your angle while moving, it causes you to veer off course and fall off the tiny platform you are on, and that shouldn't be happening.

[warpio]

raocow please use the jump kick when you platform

there's so many bits where it would've made your life wayyy easier

jump kicking is not that safe because it can turn into a dive instead, causing you to slide forward. ground pounding is a much safer way of stopping your jump momentum. I saw raocow doing that sometimes in this level but not as much as he needed to.

and also if you hold crouch when you land from a longjump then you won't slide forward when you land.

[BobisOnlyBob]

HEY raocow!

Can you try just... walking? Like before recording a video, you should be able to hold the analogue stick such that Mario doesn't sprint, just walk. In a straight line. It seems like you have an issue where he starts running incredibly quickly. Every time you have Mario hugging a wall or careening off an edge, it feels like the fact that he's going full-tilt all the time is a huge issue.

[FPzero]

Well I mean, this thread did tell him to decrease the deadzone on his controller. Reducing deadzone would remove the area around the stick for walking wouldn't it? I think the bigger issue was the Range control. If it's not there, try a deadzone of 25%. That one allows me plenty of fine control using a standard 360 controller.

Honestly I'm not even sure it's controller issues at this point. I have a feeling it's more about confidence when making jumps. Take the time to line up your camera directly behind Mario before making jumps and it'll save your life. Also using the camera to help judge how far away a platform is helps too.

-------------

The following isn't a comment made as a result of the difficulty raocow had with this level, but instead based on my own experience playing it. Having played a number of these SM64 romhacks now, I can say that SM64 hackers don't really seem to "get" what made the bowser levels in the original fun challenges. In the original, the bowser levels were essentially pure platforming segments done in 2.5D. Think about it, most of the level took place with a zoomed out camera placed horizontally away from Mario, and much of it could be accomplished by holding left or right, with minimal up and down. Because of this, you could almost always gauge the distances on your jumps, resulting in level design that was usually not frustrating. The red coins offered a chance for the developers to have more challenging platforming along what was a more straightforward path. Basically, the levels escalated in both difficulty and complexity without ever feeling unfair. The levels also felt very fluid and you could get through them with minimal need to stop and think about your next jump for too long. And since the level was always vertical, in many cases falling would lead you back to a previous level, or in the Fire Sea, you had a chance to recover yourself with the lava jump.

While the level was unique in its "boss" fight, the platforming that it presents is really unpleasant. A lot of the jumps feel just high enough that you need to double jump for them (the tree bridges) or too far apart to safely single jump between without using the air kick or long jump (stones in the swamp). You have to constantly stop and readjust your camera because this isn't a 2.5D platforming challenge like in the original, but a full 3D one. The main path has all the difficulties that would usually be relegated to Red Coin challenges in the original and if you fall, you're going to die because you're inches above the swamp for a good 90% of the level with no safety net to fall into should you go down. And all of my platforming was done with the knowledge of air kicks, long jump control, standing double/triple jumps and more, so I was at least aware of the movement tools I had at my disposal when playing.

Mario 64 is at its best when it's an exploration game. When you introduce fine platforming challenges, much semblance of control goes out the window because the original game's engine was just not built for that stuff. I'm playing ahead a fair bit and there are just so many instances of fine platforming being required to get stars. I stepped into one level that's suspended in the sky, moved around a little, fell off, and never went back in because I can tell it's going to be a nightmare. I've already done the 2nd bowser level too. It does not get better than this one, I hate to say. Very cool aesthetic area, but man is it hard. Only way I could think of to get through a specific area was to do a long jump to a small ledge and skip it entirely. I highly doubt raocow will think to do the same.

Star Road has promise but to me it doesn't feel like it ever captures the same good balance of exploration, platforming and general enjoyment that the original did.

[TaviTurnip]

OH NO THE COMMENT SECTION IS HARSHLY CRITICIZING raocow QUICK CALL EVERYONE'S TONE EDGY AND UNNECESSARY

RIOT

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

(You'll get it sometime, rao. You're already much better than the start of the series, and the only way to go is up.)

[Leet]

it makes a lot of sense for rao to use savestates on this, since the early SMW lps used savestates. it's like a whole new beginning...

[ztarwuff]

I don't remember ever using the Mario camera when I played the original SM64; always the Lakitu. I just preferred it when the camera was further out so I could judge distances. And I really don't remember never being able to run in a straight line. It's absurd that you have to spend so much time adjusting the analogue stick controls.

[Ometeotl]

I think the easiest way to avoid that softlock is to not make a beeline to rub Mario's face all over that pipe every time you enter Limbo.

[Grounder]

So when is this going to be interrupted by MAGL3, exactly?

[LunarRainbowShyGuy]

So after watching raocow's latest video and reading some of the comments, I became curious about how often instant death hazards appear in the original Super Mario 64. I thought about it a bit and it turns out it's actually fairly uncommon.

Starting with stages you can access before the first Bowser level, only two of them have bottomless pits, and even then they're mostly limited to the perimeters of the levels (except for the slides but they aren't really comparable to regular levels). The first Bowser level is a bit more dangerous in this regard, but as FirePhoenix explained earlier, the Bowser levels don't involve 3d movement very much. Also, there isn't much difficult platforming along the main path. In fact, I think you can complete the stage using only basic jumps.

In the basement there are once again only two stages with instant death, and here it's only in a few sections of the levels. The second Bowser stage doesn't even have bottomless pits. On the second floor pits are a bit more common but the stages where pits are really common aren't accessable until the third floor.

Now since this is a hack of Super Mario 64 it's only natural for it to be more difficult than the original. But for some of the early levels to be more difficult than the hardest levels in the original seems rather extreme to me. Especially when there are levels that are just like the early levels of the original in terms of difficulty.

[SAJewers]

So when is this going to be interrupted by MAGL3, exactly?

Apparently SNN is still waiting on 1 judge.

[nathanisbored]

You have way more foward/backward air control than raocow seems to think you do. Like when long jumping for example, you can hold back in the air to stop your momentum as youre landing. Same with regular jumps too. Also jump kicks stop your momentum and allow you to pull back and sometimes save yourself after jumping too far, but theyre a little scary since the kick button is the same as the dive, and diving is probably the last thing you want to do in that situation. If you're holding backwards to slow down your jump, then you'll get a kick instead of a dive though. It seems like raocow treats his jumps as very committal, but he's not using air control much at all. It doesnt work well for left/right movement, but it does for forward/backward.

In general, you should start holding backwards about halfway though your jump so that you have no extra inertia when landing, if that makes sense.

[Divemissile]

jump kicking is not that safe because it can turn into a dive instead, causing you to slide forward. ground pounding is a much safer way of stopping your jump momentum. I saw raocow doing that sometimes in this level but not as much as he needed to.

and also if you hold crouch when you land from a longjump then you won't slide forward when you land.

to my knowledge, the dive only happens when mario gathers a good bit of speed and tries to do a jump kick. in cases like the part where you have to jump from bridge to bridge i don't think this would be a problem. plus, the dive is pretty useful at some points