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SMWCX - Credits

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TaviTurnip
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Re: SMWCX - Windy Hill Zone

Postby TaviTurnip » 3 years ago

I am feeling oddly judgmental about this video. The first main part of the level felt... I dunno, kinda pointless, like. It felt like a gimmick that didn't really do anything fun with itself. It was just literally "do some sine waves with Toad like seven times also this one trick that will probably kill you" and while dressing it up with windmills made it more cute, it was very plain. It almost felt like an introduction to double jumping and not... what, world 6? I dunno.

Meanwhile the secret path was okay and raocow is just bad at timing :I
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Imaynotbehere4long
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Re: SMWCX - Snow Land

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 3 years ago

BobisOnlyBob wrote:
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:Having to grab a Yoshi egg before it hatches as well as avoiding a deadweight NPC that looks nearly identical to the eggs, ON TOP OF JUMPHURT=1 BOB-OMS?? Seriously, Darknoius, what were you thinking?? Plus, the fourth phase had a Thwomp attached to the boss, which had a very high chance of hurting players before they even realize what's going on (since they'll have to jump and throw the egg up to the boss).
That's... literally Cuckoo Condor, from Wario Land 4 (well, both phases merged together). That was an explicit reference that got changed! Like, the only way it could be more cuckoo condor is if it alternated between dropping and throwing saws as well.
Differences between SMBX and Wario Land 4:
  • Wario can grab the eggs by standing under them; Mario can only grab Yoshi eggs from the side, which is incredibly finicky and hard to do, especially when the boss begins moving back and forth, and even more especially when the Thwomp resprite spawns.
  • Wario can charge into the ducks to kill them before they explode; Mario can't kill jumphurt=1 bob-ombs (especially since they had nofireball=1 as well).
  • Cuckoo Condor never generated un-grab-able eggs that would crush and kill the player if hit from above, even on S-Hard.
  • Cuckoo Condor's grabber thing is clearly visible from the start and gives indication of when it's about to drop; the Thwomp resprite in Clockwork Ruins instantly appears in the 4th phase, giving first-time players no time to react to it.
  • The player couldn't jump on top of the condor part of Cuckoo Condor because it was too high up; the player couldn't jump on the Pidgit part of Clockwork Ruins's boss because it had jumphurt=1, which is unintuitive even for people who haven't encountered Pidgits before (the only way to kill the Pidgit was by spin-jumping).
You're only thinking of the description based on its similarity to Cuckoo Condor, and not how it would affect SMBX gameplay. I'd rather play a good level than a reference level. Besides, people still got the reference, didn't they?

If you still don't think the changes were justified, feel free to play the original version.
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BobisOnlyBob
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Re: SMWCX - Snow Land

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 3 years ago

Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
BobisOnlyBob wrote:
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:Having to grab a Yoshi egg before it hatches as well as avoiding a deadweight NPC that looks nearly identical to the eggs, ON TOP OF JUMPHURT=1 BOB-OMS?? Seriously, Darknoius, what were you thinking?? Plus, the fourth phase had a Thwomp attached to the boss, which had a very high chance of hurting players before they even realize what's going on (since they'll have to jump and throw the egg up to the boss).
That's... literally Cuckoo Condor, from Wario Land 4 (well, both phases merged together). That was an explicit reference that got changed! Like, the only way it could be more cuckoo condor is if it alternated between dropping and throwing saws as well.
Differences between SMBX and Wario Land 4:

[changelog]

You're only thinking of the description based on its similarity to Cuckoo Condor, and not how it would affect SMBX gameplay. I'd rather play a good level than a reference level. Besides, people still got the reference, didn't they?
Yeah, that's fair and all. Please don't mistake my exclamation mark for outrage or indignation at the change! Engine limitations are a problem and bad design is bad design. But as it is now, it only bears a passing resemblance to cuckoo condor, whereas before it was an explicit reference, albeit one that reached beyond the capabilities of the SMBX engine - or at least, past the capabilities of remaining fun. It's a shame there wasn't a way to implement it with the eggs more functional and the bombs not being set up quite so ridiculously, the altered version is obviously preferable, but it's interesting to see the original's more explicit design too.
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:If you still don't think the changes were justified, feel free to play the original version.
But since you asked so nicely...
  • You're damn right about those eggs being finicky to catch, not impossible, but more annoying than challenging
  • The bob-ombs have tiny explosions and produce less threat than a spiny, they're slow and very predictable even with jumphurt=1, and there's never more than 2 on the platform at once
    • When jumphurt=1 I feel the sprite should be different somehow, a note at the beginning of the level is insufficient
  • The deadweights are extremely easy to recognise and avoid too, only likely to kill on the first attempt at the second phase when you jump at it blindly
    • They also clear bob-ombs harmlessly (as the explosion is almost the same width as the deadweight)
    • I did not experience the instant crush glitch, but I will take your word for it and agree that's unacceptable
  • The pendulum spawn is accompanied by a reset in Mr the Egg Timer's position, which can do instant damage at the start of the fourth phase, likely guaranteeing a kill unless the player has held onto their powerups well
    • Once the pendulum-thwomp exists it poses similar threat to the deadweights, but combined with the fussy catching makes the fourth phase a pain
    • During the fourth phase, eggs no longer produce bob-ombs but fall through the ground - unorthodox, but reduces threat again
  • I somehow died to the final pidgit once, wtf am I literally raocow
In short while I don't fully agree with your changes - I personally still had fun playing it - I think they're probably the most reasonable changes given that it's not a boss of your own creation and that better fixes would have been far more time consuming, such as bringing in the pendulum non-instantly, re-spriting the bob-ombs and the deadweights, and making catching falling objects in SMBX not be a ridiculous nonsense (obviously that last one is a task for people re-developing the SMBX/PGE platform, not for level designers).
BOB is an acronym for BOB is Only BOB etc.

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Mata Hari
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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby Mata Hari » 3 years ago

The hellevator ride was pretty rad because it's something you couldn't do in SMW as far as I know!

The Toadbot disappearing if you use the time switch feels like something they should've done something about!

That part after the conveyor belt ride probably should've been cut! But it doesn't seem unnecessarily difficult so it could be worse!

All those Rinkas at the end turned into lives! Twelve of them!

Overall today's levels were pretty OK!

!!!

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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby tirakai » 3 years ago

I feel like some level designers forget that mario doesn't have a health bar. This level was mostly fine but it reminded me of those ones you see in contests and such that are obviously designed to work like different platformers entirely where you don't just have 2-3 hits.

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Giik
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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby Giik » 3 years ago

tirakai wrote:I feel like some level designers forget that mario doesn't have a health bar. This level was mostly fine but it reminded me of those ones you see in contests and such that are obviously designed to work like different platformers entirely where you don't just have 2-3 hits.
Can't you choose characters that have 3 HP in this, though? I thought toad/peach had SMB2-style health.
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Grounder
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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby Grounder » 3 years ago

Again, if you don't force people to choose a different character, almost everyone is going to default to Mario.
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Mata Hari
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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby Mata Hari » 3 years ago

Giik wrote:
tirakai wrote:I feel like some level designers forget that mario doesn't have a health bar. This level was mostly fine but it reminded me of those ones you see in contests and such that are obviously designed to work like different platformers entirely where you don't just have 2-3 hits.
Can't you choose characters that have 3 HP in this, though? I thought toad/peach had SMB2-style health.
3 HP is included in '2-3 hits'

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The Doctor
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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby The Doctor » 3 years ago

raocow, go back in that side room with the Elevator level. You missed something.

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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby raocow » 3 years ago

I'll try to remember!
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Imaynotbehere4long
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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 3 years ago

raocow wrote:I'll try to remember!
Just don't watch the credits until after you beat the last level of world 7. Trust me.
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Le Neveu de Rameau
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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby Le Neveu de Rameau » 3 years ago

The number of twists and swerves the Haunted Elevator level--a name no doubt chosen to put one in mind to expect the expected, only to pull the floor out from beneath, as the level itself does twice--throws at the player is truly delightful. Automatic stair replacements have seldom been so cheeky.

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Grounder
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Re: SMWCX - Nowhere to Hyde

Postby Grounder » 3 years ago

mario visits the tower of terror and then somehow finds his way into an area meant only for disney technicians
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Stink Terios
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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Stink Terios » 3 years ago

That desert level is just dire. The boss is overwhelming in several different layers and let me tell you: beating it legit is a nightmare.
Crushing as instant death, rinkas, podoboos, and an unmoving, regenerating cloaked Ludwig. Holy hell! And every time you die you have to redo a significant chunk of the level including a pretty difficult thwomp boss.

And everything is compounded by the dull, yellow aesthetics and the awful, awful music.

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Imaynotbehere4long
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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 3 years ago

The error message for Metallic Mish Mash must be another beta 3 exclusive bug, because that song works in LunaLua 0.7.3.
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Lejes
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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Lejes » 3 years ago

Placing poorly made bosses long after a midpoint in a huge, punishing level is a running theme in this game. I almost gave up on this level, but I made it through after several hours. Can't wait until raocow gets to the point where I actually did give up.

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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Quill » 3 years ago

Oh boy, a level I submitted three years ago is still in the game. I had forgotten about it as well until recently!

So this level was edited at some point. Here's a list of things I noticed.
- The elevator used to sink and rise back up slowly. It was quite a slow process. If I recall correctly, my decision for the slow elevator initially was to help give that 'abandoned temple' vibe with a contraption that isn't quite working as well as it used to. The change to make it a normal elevator is very welcome, though it can make it tricky to go underneath it as you could get squished trying to escape the elevator. raocow got pretty lucky I think.
- Podoboos being added. There were no podoboos in the original level at all. I don't like this change at all , as it makes the two thwomp mini-bosses and the main boss much more difficult than they should be.
- Midpoint was moved slightly to a more obvious spot. That's fair enough.
- Yellow switch when activated activates a barrier that prevents you from going back to the elevator room. A good change as a player might think to head back there when there's nothing new.
- The three switches and the ascending/descending pillar used to have a key that was needed for the boss door. Removing it is a fine decision as it could easily be missed.
- The main thwomp boss used to fall and rise on his own set timer. This could be bad for players doing the battle for the first time as they not expect it, but learning the pattern could save time on getting the P-Switch. I approve of the change to make the boss fall when you run underneath him though, as it makes more logical sense. The podoboos in this room make it way too stressful though.
Stink Terios wrote:That desert level is just dire. The boss is overwhelming in several different layers and let me tell you: beating it legit is a nightmare.
Crushing as instant death, rinkas, podoboos, and an unmoving, regenerating cloaked Ludwig. Holy hell! And every time you die you have to redo a significant chunk of the level including a pretty difficult thwomp boss.

And everything is compounded by the dull, yellow aesthetics and the awful, awful music.
Having to redo a lot of the level if you die was my own fault. It's a silly little thing I used to do when designing levels years ago. Not sure why, but I don't do it anymore. I wish this was changed by the person who edited the level. Oh well.

I don't think the aesthetics or the music are dull. I think they capture the 'desert temple' atmosphere pretty well and they work nicely together. Not sure why you dislike the music so much either, both songs used are pretty fitting . The main music is the Spirit Temple from OoT which was essentially a desert temple and the boss music was the Egg Golem from SA2 which had a similar setting.
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Mata Hari
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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Mata Hari » 3 years ago

Editing levels without consulting the original creators at all still seems pretty sketchy to me. Was there a clear warning that would happen when you submitted it?

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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Quill » 3 years ago

Mata Hari wrote:Editing levels without consulting the original creators at all still seems pretty sketchy to me. Was there a clear warning that would happen when you submitted it?
Not that I know of.
Last edited by Quill on 09 Sep 2016, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Imaynotbehere4long
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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 3 years ago

In case anyone's curious, this is how raocow's playthrough of Metallic Mish Mash sounds with the proper music playing:


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Stink Terios
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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Stink Terios » 3 years ago

Quill wrote: I don't think the aesthetics or the music are dull. I think they capture the 'desert temple' atmosphere pretty well and they work nicely together. Not sure why you dislike the music so much either, both songs used are pretty fitting . The main music is the Spirit Temple from OoT which was essentially a desert temple and the boss music was the Egg Golem from SA2 which had a similar setting.
Nah I just have a personal beef with deserts and OoT Temple songs in particular. Also I don't care if something fits if it doesn't sound good.

Egg Golem is perfectly fine.

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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby SAJewers » 3 years ago

Mata Hari wrote:Editing levels without consulting the original creators at all still seems pretty sketchy to me. Was there a clear warning that would happen when you submitted it?
That's definitely the case with A2XT. I personally am OK with it, as long as the person editing it understands the original creator's intent with their design choices when they make their edits, and tries to keep it as faithful as possible.

If you're gonna make a change, you should at least know what they were trying to do.
Lejes wrote:Placing poorly made bosses long after a midpoint in a huge, punishing level is a running theme in this game. I almost gave up on this level, but I made it through after several hours. Can't wait until raocow gets to the point where I actually did give up.
To be fair, SMBX level design principals seems to dictate long levels on the whole, and it's hard to have a decent checkpoint and a boss with only 1 checkpoint in vanilla SMBX, without making the level seems short (in comparison) or having luna tower-style shortcuts.
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Re: SMWCX - Pyramid Cave

Postby Leet » 3 years ago

Mata Hari wrote:Editing levels without consulting the original creators at all still seems pretty sketchy to me. Was there a clear warning that would happen when you submitted it?
this is how collaboration games tend to work in general, because if every designer had to be waited on, the games would never get done.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: SMWCX - Lizard

Postby Kshaard » 3 years ago

Any chance of a source for the raocow singing in today's video? I honestly can't place it.
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Imaynotbehere4long
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Re: SMWCX - Lizard

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 3 years ago

Kshaard wrote:Any chance of a source for the raocow singing in today's video? I honestly can't place it.
The music file actually cites where it's from, right down to the second:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkJgwaf ... e&t=23m00s

Edit: by the way, is the title a reference to anything in particular? I shouldn't need to explain how googling "Lizard" probably won't get me the result I want.
My SMBX portfolio:
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(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)

SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026


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