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VIP 3 Redux: FINAL: Grace of Kings

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
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Willhart
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Rising Hope

Post by Willhart »

Let's playing seems pretty expensive nowadays. All this equipment needed for better quality videos. Hopefully the new computer will last for a long time.

Also the level design in this game seems to be all over the place.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Downtime

Post by SAJewers »

Horikawa Otane wrote:Can't help but notice the very clear frame dropping on parts of the videos with lots of movement. In some parts with the munchers it goes down to like... 10-20fps. Considering his rather substantial upgrade, raocow must have changed something for the worse in his recording setup.

My guess is that it's either him switching to a worse recording software or recording lossless (or near lossless) on a drive that isn't fast enough to keep up with it. His comment on the filesize suggests the latter. If he was using dxtory (is he?), it'd give him a warning telling him his recording bottleneck so we could be sure.

I guarantee this will manifest itself MUCH worse in more visually complex stages or games. The footage may turn out 5-10fps and be entirely useless.

There were many reasons I told him to get solid state, but he ignored me and went for a traditional molasses hard drive...

A problem like this almost certainly wouldn't manifest itself in the editing/exporting step and I almost guarantee it's in the source footage as well.
A quick check on r/letsplay says any HDD will record footage fine with no bottleneck. *shrug*

https://www.reddit.com/r/letsplay/comme ... ps/cike1q1
https://www.reddit.com/r/letsplay/comme ... ns/clni4d7
https://www.reddit.com/r/letsplay/comme ... ng/cjiited

If we knew his recording/editing setup, it would help.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Rising Hope

Post by raocow »

uhm, the frameskip might have been happening during the recording itself, as I noticed it here and there, like, in zsnes itself while I was recording just now ? Gonna have to look at what is running in this computer, me thinks.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Rising Hope

Post by SAJewers »

raocow wrote:uhm, the frameskip might have been happening during the recording itself, as I noticed it here and there, like, in zsnes itself while I was recording just now ? Gonna have to look at what is running in this computer, me thinks.
Is it just ZSNES? is it a problem in another emulator, or another game?
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Rising Hope

Post by Stink Terios »

By the way raocow, did you use a licensed Bandicam before? Because if you did just install it on your new rig and use the old license they gave you, which is a recommended procedure acording to them (as long as you are a good boy and uninstall it from the previous computer, doing so would be NAUGHTY!!!).

e: Also try fiddling with codecs.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Rising Hope

Post by raocow »

yeah I just used my old liscence on it
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Rising Hope

Post by TaviTurnip »

I can't think of a good way to work a good "VIP agenda" joke into this comment without pushing the joke waaaay too far. I blame the fact that I watched too much John Oliver last night.

Also re: a statement in the video, watching your old content sometimes made me think you were a genius or a super dedicated SMW player at times, like there were some maneuvers you'd get first try (no reload/rewind) and you'd do them with the utmost confidence, probably because you had a safety cushion with save states. Sometimes now when you return to SMW/SMBx or something and you flail around for two episodes remembering the engine, it feels like all that old instinct went away, so sometimes it's hard to tell that you're really better now than before :P (But then games like Distorted Travesty really bring out your best side at times and so yeah, of course you're better now than the past.)
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Rising Hope

Post by SAJewers »

Ok, fair enough then.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Downtime

Post by Zygl »

Horikawa Otane wrote:
SAJewers wrote:A quick check on r/letsplay says any HDD will record footage fine with no bottleneck. *shrug*

https://www.reddit.com/r/letsplay/comme ... ps/cike1q1
https://www.reddit.com/r/letsplay/comme ... ns/clni4d7
https://www.reddit.com/r/letsplay/comme ... ng/cjiited

If we knew his recording/editing setup, it would help.
Okay as someone who has personally witnessed this and has had to SPECIFICALLY design their current setup around this for awhile before moving their laptop to ssd - this couldn't be more incorrect. Like... This is just so, so, so wrong. The current dxtory even has a specific bottleneck warning for when your hdd speed is causing a bottleneck. I wasn't able to record Momodora 4 at lossless until I upgraded it to an ssd.

There's a reason people make charts like this. And it isn't for fun.

Go try to record 1080p60 lossless rawvideo Bioshock Infinite on a 5400rpm drive. Then come back to me and tell me your recording framerate isn't bottlenecked.
Have you considered the possibility of recording to a separate drive in this discussion? It's kinda hard to tell given your firsthand experience you cite is with a laptop - which presumably only has the one internal drive - and your chart there appears to my (admittedly tired) eyes to be assuming you're only working with one drive. Meanwhile peeps on that subreddit unanimously recommend recording to a separate drive - it stands to reason they're speaking in terms of doing that rather than recording to an HDD that's also busy running an OS, a game and recording software at the same time (an act I like to call "literally begging your hard drive to be a bottleneck" for short).
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Downtime

Post by Alice »

Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:Have you considered the possibility of recording to a separate drive in this discussion? It's kinda hard to tell given your firsthand experience you cite is with a laptop - which presumably only has the one internal drive - and your chart there appears to my (admittedly tired) eyes to be assuming you're only working with one drive. Meanwhile peeps on that subreddit unanimously recommend recording to a separate drive - it stands to reason they're speaking in terms of doing that rather than recording to an HDD that's also busy running an OS, a game and recording software at the same time (an act I like to call "literally begging your hard drive to be a bottleneck" for short).
This is what I do on the rare occasion I record anything and I've had no issues with it using three hard drives of varying capabilites according to Dxtory's benchmark.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Out of the Frying Pan....

Post by Zephyr_DragonLord »

The VIPs never seem to be able to use a darn bat cloud well. Not like they were good to begin with. There seems to be nostalgia in place that lets raocow not mind some of the bad design decisions. (I would be the same way, though...)
World 2 should be next. Or at least, that's what I'm voting for.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Out of the Frying Pan....

Post by SAJewers »

That Diploma looks more like a candlepin bowling pin to me.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Out of the Frying Pan....

Post by Divemissile »

i always liked wendy/lemmy fights in the vip games mainly due to how janky amd crazy they are. it's really cool to see what weird things people can come up with from a pretty lame boss fight.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Out of the Frying Pan....

Post by Mata Hari »

Every time I see those batclouds it becomes obvious why the base game never actually used 'em.

Also... frozen lava isn't anything special.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: Out of the Frying Pan....

Post by Telamon »

Mata Hari wrote:Also... frozen lava isn't anything special.
In fact, you're probably near some RIGHT NOW!
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by Zephyr_DragonLord »

I knew that no matter what I would say, you would be tackling these worlds in reverse order after that mistake. (I guess you want to showcase the difficulty curve, then?)

The other thing that I want to say besides the usual design flaws is that I have a slight problem with the game spelling out every single reference in its titles. The crowd isn't necessarily dumb... (some LPers might be, to be fair) I like to make such things subtle enough that the player feels smart when they get the reference.

Also, I still find the disco jump over lava to be unacceptable. Making it feel great is incredibly difficult.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by Sugar »

Zephyr_DragonLord wrote:The other thing that I want to say besides the usual design flaws is that I have a slight problem with the game spelling out every single reference in its titles.
That one isn't 2ch's fault. Horikawa tried adding explanations for level titles, and in that particular level two message boxes were already used (so the explanation was moved to a level title), although perhaps the references that should be understandable even when you don't participate on 2ch and/or don't live in Japan shouldn't be explained (read: "Kamaei's Donut Lifts" should be fine to explain, but "Clash on the VIP Bridge" is somewhat too clear of a reference).

... although I guess you could make a point that the game to which "Clash on the VIP Bridge" is a reference to is somewhat obscure, because the game in question was released MUCH later in US than in Japan. That argument doesn't really apply to Yoshi's Island however (I mean, Yoshi's Island was a pack-in game included with SNES (later on), like seriously).

(and even then, the huge reference to the exactly same game as in "Clash on the VIP Bridge" in VIP2 was completely not mentioned)

Although I do wonder why the level wasn't called "Koopa Ain't Stupid", just to make the YI reference more clear (using "this" is more grammatically correct I believe, but the title was here clearly for a madlibs-style reference).
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by Zephyr_DragonLord »

In that case, explaining the titles is fine. An otherwise superb translation job doesn't need to be dragged down for explaining somewhat obvious references.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by Ashan »

The fireballs making the BADUNK sound actually reminded me, that glitch is replicable in Ludwig's castle which I discovered when I was little.

In the long room with the on/off switches and the ceiling falling down where you run from right to left, if you get to the other end and then wait for the ceiling to fall all the way down, all of your cape spin sounds will make that BADUNK sound instead of the regular BRDOOO sound.

Please let me know if these onomatopoeia are up to standard.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by raocow »

they are passing standard with flying colours, no worries
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by Alice »

I'm like 90% certain that raocow despawned the disco shell in his original lp the exact same way as he did here and also failed to understand why it despawned for the exact same reason as well.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by aterraformer »

A day late but you can do this:
raocow wrote:the plan is to wait for Jump to be released and then replacing the graphics without telling anyone involved with Jump.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by Drei »

You know, I don't know why making references not obtuse to those who might not get them ruins it for others who naturally understand it? Should Horikawa go full TV-Nihon and leave romanized Japanese with a translator's note? XD

Man, Wendy's level looks like a different kind of bologna to deal with. If you could reasonably deal with the bats, I think it'd be a really nice challenge, like if fireballs bounced high and low alternating (either every bounce or every cast). I do love the backdoor though, and it's things like that and the absurdity of freezing lava that makes me love the VIP series.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: ...And Into the Flames.

Post by Alice »

Drei wrote:You know, I don't know why making references not obtuse to those who might not get them ruins it for others who naturally understand it?
It's no different than people who are incapable of refraining from using exploits and cheats despite the fact they themselves look down on people who use said exploits and cheats. It's a false sense of superiority and a lack of awareness and self control. Basically just dumb people acting like morons.
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Re: VIP 3 Redux: The Switch

Post by Zephyr_DragonLord »

To end the topic of translation notes, they are helpful, as we see in today's video. Those good moments far outweigh the 'duh' moments for (very few) titles.
...I have nothing but criticism for the levels today. This isn't a good sign.... for either me or the levels. Playing with off-screen ceilings leaves a ton of potential for mean trickery, and what was even the secret exit to that last level...? I don't blame raocow for not finding it immediately.

I'm enjoying the videos regardless of the settings of the footage. The commentary is what draws me to the videos in the first place.
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