JUMP - Let's meet again at JUMP½

[LHB]

"Suspicious Warehouse" reminded me of that one "Level without an end" (?) stage from, I think, VIP4 (maybe 3) in a way.
Super neat stuff~

Yep, it reminded of the NO GOAL stage in VIP 3 as well haha, except this version isn't even half as mean.

[xfix]

I'm not sure how exactly that works, but apparently you can hide blocks in your level which only appear after the popout one-up is triggered. They are permanent, so as long as you don't game over they are still there even after you die. This is a thing that would be good to keep in mind tough, as a lot more levels use this mechanic (especially after the 1.02 patch), so always be suspicious/relieved when you see that pop out mushroom I suppose (:

In short, in Super Mario World, there are invisible points that trigger 1UP mushroom spawn. You have to touch them in order (1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4) in order for a 1UP mushroom to spawn. After it spawns, the 1UP checkpoints won't spawn again in a given level is loaded. The game prevents loading them by entirely ignoring 1UP checkpoint when loading a level, so if you put a tile below them, it is rendered, as no checkpoint appears over it. Also, because checkpoints have to be touched in order, you can safely put any 1UP checkpoint in place where you want a block to spawn, and it won't be triggered, because you have to touch 4 of these. I learned this really neat trick from Municipal Swimming.

In similar way, Midway Point (see Peaks of Revolution), Dragon Coins (I believe some level in MGU3 used that one, but I don't remember which) and moons (although using that one is hard without outright spamming moons, which considering they give 3UP bonus is probably not a good idea) do behave.

Also, you can use coins for such an effect, however the coin state is only preserved until you leave a level. Still, it could be used for certain puzzles (collect coins, reenter the same level using pipe/door, see something new in place of coins).

[Zephyr_DragonLord]

...Trying to die in all the fashions in these puzzle levels? Well, it's to be expected. You did manage to figure out most of it by yourself, so there's that. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of Yoshi death, only to make a new one fall in a pit too.

Suspicious Warehouse was pretty cool, too. Perhaps that specific gimmick will pop up again...?

[Validon98]

I think it's incredibly silly to guilt trip anyone into thinking "oh no I shouldn't use the tools the game gives me in case I'm stuck", I mean it was made for a reason and unlocked through collecting stuff, so era64, you're being silly, why you being silly (other than sadistic tendencies I guess but still there is a point where ragecow stops being fun to watch).

I want to say that the solution to the first part of the Yellow Switch palace was obvious, but tbh I was just as stumped watching the video, so uh... I probably would have needed the hint too! :'D

I love the idea behind levels such as Suspicious Warehouse as long as they aren't executed weirdly like "My Level" from VIP5 and the level it was based off of from VIP... I want to say 4? The one with the incredibly obtuse solution that got a sequel level in the special world of VIP 5. That's a little overkill in my opinion.

[xfix]

I think it's incredibly silly to guilt trip anyone into thinking "oh no I shouldn't use the tools the game gives me in case I'm stuck", I mean it was made for a reason and unlocked through collecting stuff, so era64, you're being silly, why you being silly (other than sadistic tendencies I guess but still there is a point where ragecow stops being fun to watch).

I guess it's only fair. The game has plenty of difficult levels anyway, avoiding angrycow when possible doesn't mean there won't be any angrycow either way. I do agree, I think it's fair to expect raocow to do a honest attempt on a puzzle, check the solution when he gets confused, and only up to a point where something new shows up.

I'm just disappointed in that I wouldn't see whether raocow would do a proper solution, or try crazy shelljumps.

(I think that one level in the game actually requires shelljumps, so there is that)

[snoruntpyro]

Finally caught up with this series and holy geez this hack is amazing. I'm learning so much about SMW :D

[nathanisbored]

There's 3 tiers of vanilla midpoint systems:

Tier 1: Midpoint bars and switch palace blocks.
Cutting the midway tape and hitting a switch palace switch are both actions that can save permanently to the file, and thus can be used for permanent midpoints. For switch blocks, you could have a part of your level where you hit a switch palace switch, which unlocks blocks near the beginning to access a later part of the level faster.

Because these methods are permanent, you don't have to worry about losing your midpoint if you game over or reset the game, as long as you save first.

Tier 2: Dragon Coins, 3-UP Moons, and 1-UP checkpoints
Collecting 5 dragon coins in a level, collecting a 3-UP moon in a level, and triggering a pop-up 1-UP in a level each use a special table which keeps track of whether you've triggered these things in each level. If the flag for one of these things in a certain level is set, then these objects won't be reloaded. Then you can hide other objects behind them (such as doors), to create artificial midpoint, that trigger once you get all dragon coins, or collect a moon, or trigger a pop-up 1-UP. These tables don't save to the file, but they will persist after leaving the level, and won't get cleared until you game over or reset.

These methods are semi-permanent, and you lose your midpoint in your next play session.

Tier 3: Object memory
Each level will try to keep track of certain things you've already collected in a level, such as coins and Yoshis, to prevent them from reloading again after going through a sublevel. The game uses 16 bits per subscreen (1 flag for each column of tiles) to remember things, and this flag is used for all kinds of objects to determine whether they should reload. For example, coin objects will not reload if they have already been collected there, 1-UP blocks will be empty brown blocks if they have already been hit, Yoshi blocks will be empty brown blocks if they have already been hit, and I think star blocks also respond to this. The cool thing about this is that all these things use the same flag, and if you use the same item memory index in two sublevels for the same level, then the effect transfers between rooms. So you can make it so that collecting a certain coin in one room makes a 1-UP block turn into a brown block in another room, and then have a P-switch so that you can go through it and create a midpoint that way. Alternatively, you can simply hide a door behind a set of coins, and then have that room be reloaded to reveal it.

This method is porbably the most interesting and versatile, however everything will reset when you leave the level, so it has the lowest level of permanence.

[QubicTom]

Hey raocow, it'd be cool to download the newest update before entering Aquiferic Pressure.

alright I did but be warned this RUINED the paralelle between mine and QubicTom's 'seasoned veteran vs newbie' run!!

!!!

NOOOooooOOOooooOOOO!

Although honestly, due to the difficulty I've had you've basically caught up with me. There is one level, just one, that I really wish that we could compare. I'm afraid to check the changelog to see if it was made easier. Because seriously, it took four videos for me to do it, and it'd be really neat to compare the number of lives lost!

This also brings up the question: to patch or not to patch? We'd be able to compare runs again by the end of next week at the rate you're going, but I purposely chose to do a version of a level without a midpoint, even though the patch became available that added a midpoint (and I'd already spent two videos trying but failing to complete the level). Maybe I'll put it to a vote.

Edit: Just checked the changelog, the level I was talking is about is unchanged! Yes!!

[alleightbits]

classic raocow, yo: Heh, I was as stumped as you were there!
suspicious revisit: Wow, neat.

[ano0maly]

The yellow switch palace was both very clever and very mean. The stack of alternating blocks just make it visually confusing and thus harder to focus on the puzzles.

About Suspicious Warehouse. What was the purpose of the 5th and 6th rooms where raocow could just skip by re-entering the pipe? They seem to have designs for interesting fake-out exits, but there didn't seem to be actual puzzles that the player had to figure out to proceed to the next room.

[cozyduck]

Aquiferic Pressure was (imo unnecessarily) nerfed in this version, so it feels too easy for where it's at progression wise.
Also, assuming raocow does Morceaus level tomorrow I'm looking forward to how the thread will react to the first level with mid-tier difficulty in the game.

[Sniggerb0bble]

Well today's video left my jaw on the floor. Very glad I stayed completely blind to this project, wow.

[Stink Terios]

Daizo's levels are probably my favorites in the game.

Now I wonder how RAPTURE OF THE DEEP is gonna go. It sounds menacing and it is!!!

[MeleeWizard]

Never thought I'd hear Lemmings music on a SMW hack. The (increasingly frantic) music in Back to the Future is a unique track from a stage called MENACING!! Make of that what you will.

[lolyoshi]

Aquiferic Pressure was (imo unnecessarily) nerfed in this version, so it feels too easy for where it's at progression wise.

It wasn't really "nerfed". I simply redesigned some parts that I thought were kind of hard and dumb, and I don't think the difficulty should really come from that..

[cozyduck]

Aquiferic Pressure was (imo unnecessarily) nerfed in this version, so it feels too easy for where it's at progression wise.

It wasn't really "nerfed". I simply redesigned some parts that I thought were kind of hard and dumb, and I don't think the difficulty should really come from that..

Providing a mushroom at the end is a big nerf imo. For me, a big part of the challenge came from figuring out how to properly navigate the obstacles as big mario so you can access the exit, but now this challenge is completely negated.
At least you removed the fishes in the beginning, I do agree with that change as they only tended to cause confusion.

[LHB]

Well, at least all of

morceau

's stages are going to remain unchanged.

:/

[Lostsoldier20]

Aquiferic Pressure was a really neat level, and I love that it was designed to be beaten without water. That's kinda hard to do without making one side of the level feel like it was designed that way first.

The time travel really stole the show though. A nice level in theory, but more trial and error than anything, raocow's obvious mistakes aside. The really great part was that it tied into the whole of the game, bringing you to another world. Like... what?! That is clever. I suspect the locks are inside of the Yoshi Hut, and are tied to Dergadons.

[Validon98]

Well Aquiferic Pressure I have heard some things about being rather difficult, and I can definitely see the difficulty from the "do it without water" part of it. Oh boy.

Meanwhile for Back to the Future, uhhh... all I can do is quote Doc Brown on this one: "If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour... you're going to see some serious shit."

And we have indeed seen something serious, because holy hell, hoooooooolly hell, this is the Special World, isn't it? This is... okay then, okay Mario I think you done screwed up and moved just a little too fast. I don't think I've seen a submap that has legit awed me since either VIP5 or SMW Mighty YEAAAAH!, but, well, it happened.

Also I saw that morsel/morceau and I have heard things about that level. I don't look forward to it.

[Ashan]

Wow, that ending there. Wow.

One of the cooler things I've ever seen in a SMW hack.

[Ryrir]

"Aquiferic Pressure" was originally located on the main path of world two (pretty much where "TIDES, OK?" is now). It was moved to the secret path because the level was basically too hard for world two (especially the path without water, but the main path itself is also not that easy either, raocow just came to the level with a feather/fireflower/yoshi combo). As other people have pointed out, the big change between v1.01 and 1.02 is that there was not another mushroom at the end of the sublevel in the unpatched version, which means that you actually have to be already big when you get to the goalorb. This was pretty tricky since some of the obstacles are really easier to pass through while small (also you can just tank a hit everywhere in the new version). One thing I never really understood was the extra goalorb at the midway point, since there is no way to actually get to it. Is it really just a red herring?

"Back to the Future" is definitely easier if you have the red switch pressed. The one hard part are the pipes at the beginning, because while everything else does require some trial-and-error you're not likely to die to the same enemies more than a few times. One thing that raocow didn't point out is that the timelimit kept changing not only to 100 (which makes sense since it triggers the fanfare), but also arbitrary lolswag numbers like 69 and 420. I guess it's true when they say that humor is subjective?
The transition at the end with the whiteout and the transition to the bonus map is legit awesome though, almost everyone who plays the game is kind of amazed when they first see that. It really comes out of nowhere too

So, remember how I explained that the cave world only came to exist super late in the development process and that worldpeace basically had to code a seventh submap for it? Well the reason that the world is kind of centered at the right side as raocow pointed out is actually because of technical reasons: If you look at the overworld in lunar magic, cave world is kind of crammed in at the bottom right corner of the main overworld. The reason why it doesn't use the space on the left side is because there are already levels there - "Euphoric Mushroom Backyard" and "Random Blue Switch". "Back to The Future" is therefore in the gap between the "Random Blue Switch" and "Beezos in the Trap" on the main overworld. This is also part of the reason why there are only two worlds on the big overworld: The rest of the space is literally occupied by submaps you can't see. It's really amazing to me how you can have a submap inside the main overworld map with this modern day technology.

Tomorrow: Maybe the first morsel level of the LP? It kind of depends on what raocow wants to do first. I guess we'll find out when we'll find out!

[xfix]

Well, the cave submap is compact because it was added late to the game.

But there is more to it.



In short, the game stores parts of underground map in layer 2 events area, and the cave submap graphics are loaded dynamically over overworld map.

(the level unlocked by Rupture of the Deep was intentionally hidden by me, as you didn't see what it is yet)

(I have a feeling I could do better than that however, await something better on next C3, perhaps?)

Also, the ending of Back to the Future level is one of rare occasions where the game uses HDMA (I think the game essentially uses HDMA four times for custom effects (the game itself uses HDMA for stuff, but I don't count what vanilla SMW does (like goal circle effect or keyhole) in that counter), but may be mistaken about this).

HDMA essentially allows implementing gradients, parallax effects, dynamic BG mode changes, and few other neat effects.

Next on, the Rapture of You Die Over And Over. Perhaps?

[QubicTom]

... to the first level with mid-tier difficulty in the game.

That was only MID TIER?!

[cozyduck]

... to the first level with mid-tier difficulty in the game.

That was only MID TIER?!

We are after all still in world 3, this shouldn't be that surprising. Small spoilers regarding difficulty ratings follow:

Worldpeace has compiled a difficulty list, where levels have been assigned values between 1 and [ispoiler]8[/ispoiler] logarithmically. Rapture of the deep is the first level that gets a 4 (except for the Yellow switch palace, which also has a 4, but that's due to the puzzle). There's still quite a bit to go.

[Unaniem]

Never thought I'd hear Lemmings music on a SMW hack. The (increasingly frantic) music in Back to the Future is a unique track from a stage called MENACING!! Make of that what you will.

The art design and music track of that stage were on its turn taken from the game Menace which was also developed by the same company that developed Lemmings, DMA Design.

Now if you don't mind I'm gonna go stare in awe at that fractured world map for some more time.