DT3 - raocow and the game that ended

[Plutia]

so i made it past the thing that was giving me trouble and

http://www.hitbox.tv/video/889138 this took me 96 deaths to accomplish (boss of Nightmare Gate 7) and as per usual I was below the heart recommendation; 3 under in fact.

[ZephyrBurst]

That you just fell into one of the two solutions is pretty great.

Also people have been mentioning the bomb jump. It's not the damage radius that gives it to you. Look for the bigger, more transparent blast. That's what affects you. It's quite a large space it covers.

(edit)
Normally I wouldn't come in and spill this out, but others are already saying how to do it. (with that slight inaccuracy) An npc does tell you about a bit later though. And yeah, tomorrow's video could be a thing, but like... raocow has this habit of subverting things.

[Plutia]

also as for the puzzle in today's vid, the way I approached it was that 'hmmm all i have to do is not switch during one particular run so I can change everything ahead of time'

it worked out pretty well. I recall making a remark about wondering how raocow would react to this upcoming boss a few days ago so i'm kinda hyped

edit: it took me until just now to find out you can read the stop signs that indicate deathpits

oops

[NegativeZeroZ]

Hitting the switch that's unreachable with arrows using a bomb instead was an exploit? I've always done that. It felt very "Zephyresque."

[Imipolex G]

Where are the graphics in the temple from? Are they original? They look rather nice but I can't place them.

[Alice]

raocow you should actually try using your brain before saying that your way is better than what others are recommending. If you'd actually thought about it then you would have realized the most of the times you were actually trying to use arrows were in fact some of the worst times to do so specifically because hitting things with an arrow is so difficult in those spots. That little pyramid structure with octoroks especially. That's actually easier with bombs. Though avoiding taking a hit while clearing it is still a pain.

You're just finding your way easier purely because it's your natural state and not because it's actually easier. I'd say that the sheer amount of damage you take with your method is pretty solid proof that it's suboptimal at best considering what game you're playing.

Edit to try and word this in a bit less of an insulting way:
Think of it this way. Most people are going to come across a situation like that pyramid and they're going to stop and think for a second. "What weapon will be easiest to hit them with while avoiding damage and what are thy weak against?" Bombs are easiest to hit them with in that situation. Sword and arrows are about as easy as each other to hit them with while taking into account actually avoiding damage. (Sword is slightly easier in this case in my personal opinion.) On top of that they're very weak against arrows. Where most people are going to weight their choices here you don't seem to actually stop and think things through at all and instead just rush in and melee them without even attempting to avoid damage.

[thenightsshadow]

raocow you should actually try using your brain before saying that your way is better than what others are recommending. If you'd actually thought about it then you would have realized the most of the times you were actually trying to use arrows were in fact some of the worst times to do so specifically because hitting things with an arrow is so difficult in those spots. That little pyramid structure with octoroks especially. That's actually easier with bombs. Though avoiding taking a hit while clearing it is still a pain.

I'm in the middle of doing a no-hit run. Taking care of the first Octorok pyramid in the "Forest Temple" was just a charged arrow and jumping over the highest bullet. However, the second pyramid required sliding into the bottom two before they could fire and killing them with the sword. From there, it's pretty simple to take out the rest.

Also, ironically, I didn't think of using the bombs to hit the switch. I hit it with an arrow instead.

[RobinLSL]

raocow completely blowing away all the puzzles, and even the Stalfos. Then fails and the standard action parts. <3

[kitikami]

Who would have thought the toughest part of Dylan the Poe's puzzle would be actually catching what he says.

[lordalexander74]

What exactly did raocow do to solve that puzzle?

[NegativeZeroZ]

Guys, raocow isn't playing "wrong" because he's not playing "optimally" the instant he's given a new ability. Chill.

You guys can lecture him about the arrows because you've had considerable practice with them. It took me a few runs of what was available in the demo (up to and including a very short segment of chapter 8) before I could consistently nail those bunkered Octoroks in the face with arrows. And unless you CAN do it consistently, it's more expedient to rush in and melee them, rather than camp in their line of fire for 30 seconds trying and failing to shoot them. And don't get me started on bombs... I declared them outright useless at first, and now I can blast moving targets out of the air. The weapons in this game have a learning curve, and that's very deliberate. The game hasn't explained bomb jumping/stalling yet because the player literally just got bombs a minute ago, and is still struggling with their most basic functions.

"But!! If raocow doesn't! Ever! Use his weapons! It'll be like DT1 all over again! And he'll never learn!"

This game isn't designed like DT1. Almost all of DT1's combat tools were optional at the difficulty level he played, and he took advantage. This game won't offer him that opportunity so readily, for better or for worse. When he HAS to use his tools, he will learn to use them, and that's part of the plan. The game won't throw a boss at him that expects expert-level bombsmanship before he's earned that talent.

[Alice]

Guys, raocow isn't playing "wrong" because he's not playing "optimally" the instant he's given a new ability. Chill.

When his reaction to advice is to choose the most suboptimal spot to try what people are saying then immediately come to the conclusion his way is best that's pretty stupid of him. It's not like people are giving him this advice just because. We tend to have reasons for it such as, oh I dunno, trying to help make things easier for him. He just tends to insist on doing things the most difficult way which typically involves ramming his face into things until he lucks out and makes it through most of the time.

"But!! If raocow doesn't! Ever! Use his weapons! It'll be like DT1 all over again! And he'll never learn!"

This game isn't designed like DT1. Almost all of DT1's combat tools were optional at the difficulty level he played, and he took advantage. This game won't offer him that opportunity so readily, for better or for worse. When he HAS to use his tools, he will learn to use them, and that's part of the plan. The game won't throw a boss at him that expects expert-level bombsmanship before he's earned that talent.

You're missing a vital detail here. raocow, more often than not, somehow seriously lucks through things literally constantly and never learns a lesson from it. (See: Somehow completely lucking through that puzzle in this last video. Something he has a really bad habit of doing.) And when he doesn't learn a lesson then he starts complaining when things start to actually become an issue for him when his luck runs out. And when that happens people tend to shit on the game for it rather than raocow for being dumb about it.

[raocow]

to be fair Alice has a point, i AM kinda absurdely lucky about things sometimes and it hampers my learning. Just a bit.

[Plutia]

i said this on the patreon thing too but if you were still wondering about how long this project would take i'd say it'll probably take longer than MaGLX2 considering i'm about 42 hours in and still am not done.

[Grounder]

Tomorrow, if all goes well

we'll get a peek at the Great Palace

.

Probably not much more flat-out progress than that, though.

[NegativeZeroZ]

He just tends to insist on doing things the most difficult way which typically involves ramming his face into things until he lucks out and makes it through most of the time.

If raocow manages to face-tank through a boss that doesn't take damage from melee attacks I will be impressed

What I'm saying is, at certain checkpoints, the game physically will not let him progress if he's still face-tanking. He'll either learn to play, or crumple under the "difficulty" and use Assist Mode. Then you can poke fun at him for being "bad." :P

[Zephyr_DragonLord]

If raocow manages to face-tank through a boss that doesn't take damage from melee attacks I will be impressed

What I'm saying is, at certain checkpoints, the game physically will not let him progress if he's still face-tanking. He'll either learn to play, or crumple under the "difficulty" and use Assist Mode. Then you can poke fun at him for being "bad."

He'll probably find a way to do it by spamming arrows to the offending boss's face. raocow can find a boss's weakness simply enough... It's finding the optimal way to destroy them that he'll likely have the most trouble with.

By the way, did you put Thunderbird in this gate?

[SAJewers]

Don't forget he quit Valdis Story because the way he was playing was not optimal at all, and he ended up getting punished for it.

I would not be surprised at all if he gets to one of those bosses, crumples under the difficulty, then spends a number of days trying to beat that boss because he'll refuse to use Assist Mode.

[Grounder]

By the way, did you put Thunderbird in this gate?

He's the boss of the Great Temple, and he's kind of a pushover because of Jerry's jumping and slashing.

[ano0maly]

It's doable but quite tough to survive Dead Hand's attack without taking damage when the boss appears at the ceiling. Personally, I find it best to activate Dylan before that happens (as Dylan's presence weakens Dead Hand's offensive capabilities), and then once Dylan is defeated, finish off Dead Hand quickly to minimize the odds/instances of that attack occurring again.

Regarding the past discussion comparing the Forest Palace to the one in the DT3 demo. When I played the demo, I felt that Gate 2 wasn't very memorable. There were two bland palaces with quiet music,

a rehash of the Great Palace from DT1 Veiled Detritus, and the confusing Water Palace.

Furthermore, there was a lack of memorable

characters

. The current Forest Palace, with a unique gimmick and look, stands out as something you would remember about the gate. And the

characters added with it

gives the feel of the gate more personality, I would say.

Don't forget he quit Valdis Story because the way he was playing was not optimal at all, and he ended up getting punished for it.

I would not be surprised at all if he gets to one of those bosses, crumples under the difficulty, then spends a number of days trying to beat that boss because he'll refuse to use Assist Mode.

In Valdis Story he didn't have an optimal setup for skills and stats build (rather than just playstyle). That's not as big of a factor in this game. Of course, learning early on to play better would be beneficial.

Since he used easy mode for Shroud Lord in the first game, I think he'll be willing to use Assist Mode if necessary.

Where most people are going to weight their choices here you don't seem to actually stop and think things through at all and instead just rush in and melee them without even attempting to avoid damage.

This is something important to be brought up. You should avoid treating the sword attack as your primary attack. This game works differently from the first game where the claw was your primary all throughout the game. The sword may be easy to use here because the levels in this gate are designed around the sword, but later in the game with more complex enemies, the utility of the sword will become quite limited.

[ZephyrBurst]

Guys guys guys! I know about the hat bug with the ONE FRAME ON JERRY WITH THE ACTION THAT YOU WILL LITERALLY TAKE MAYBE ONE TIME IN THE LATE GAME! It is fixed and will be on the next patch... whenever that is. (no more emails about the hat bug. Though that IS pretty humorous) <3

to be fair Alice has a point, i AM kinda absurdely lucky about things sometimes and it hampers my learning. Just a bit.

Sometimes that luck is damn incredible though. Even with today's boss where you face slammed into it, you were still using some stuff that you learned about it.

[thenightsshadow]

By the way, did you put Thunderbird in this gate?

He's the boss of the Great Temple, and he's kind of a pushover because of Jerry's jumping and slashing.

Please tell me exactly how he's a pushover, because I keep getting wrecked by him. I always have to go for the quickest win because I have poor hand-eye coordination. I don't know how to dodge all of his attacks.

[Kalir]

Yeah I wouldn't really say raocow's doing badly. Just think of it as taking damage to save time.

Also I'm decently pretty far in on my own run, but so far the Bombs are still the most satisfying weapon to use.

[Alice]

raocow, today's boss is actually a perfect example of where the piercing arrow accessory would have come in handy. It's great for crowd control. If you don't manage to kill a hand before it explodes you still have room to actually react plus you can shoot them from a distance meaning less chance of taking a hit from them since you won't be getting up in their face.

He'll either learn to play, or crumple under the "difficulty" and use Assist Mode.

You know as well as I do that there's basically no chance of raocow using assist mode ever.

Sometimes that luck is damn incredible though. Even with today's boss where you face slammed into it, you were still using some stuff that you learned about it.

He managed to have even less trouble with today's boss than I did. I had a pretty easy time up until Dylan started showing up but after that point, even on assist mode, I had a crap load of trouble surviving even after figuring out what to do.

Please tell me exactly how he's a pushover, because I keep getting wrecked by him. I always have to go for the quickest win because I have poor hand-eye coordination. I don't know how to dodge all of his attacks.

This is only my personal opinion on the boss but I actually had very little trouble at all up until the final phase. The last dozen or so tries I'd get up to the final phase only taking like one hit at most and still get completely wrecked on the final stretch.

[Plutia]

For the record Assist Mode is only helpful when you know what to do

It's kinda refreshing to see these early game bosses and how easy they are compared to the lategame stuff, haha.

I'm very deep into the game and i can say it's only come into handy like, one time. Not even against a boss, just against this one absolutely infuriating enemy setup.

two jetpack guys + healing thing
why zephyr, why