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DT3 - raocow and the game that ended

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ZephyrBurst
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby ZephyrBurst » 3 years ago

Le Neveu de Rameau wrote:So I suppose my question is--where does the Not-Quite-Evil-One's sprite come from?
The sprite isn't ripped directly from Faxanadu, though it is from some fan edits/remakes of the sprites. The sheet I used did have the legs, but I had no use for them, so they did not show up. Take THAT Evil One, I've severed your legs!

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kitikami
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby kitikami » 3 years ago

It is amazing that raocow barely took more deaths trying to get the items in that secret room than he did just trying to leave the room.
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Lostsoldier20 » 3 years ago

Eura has to be one of my least favorite bosses. The entire area up to it is a great challenge and just looks really neat when there's 20 maces flying around. Then we get to this guy who is just annoying. Especially the final phase where you're reduced to only the middle section, as the fire always spawns at the worst times. I feel like I would have rathered this guy either go all the way with removal of the puzzle elements, or stayed puzzle boss. This current state, I'm just not a fan of.

Luckily the payoff is worth it, as Subconscious Filter is really cool outside of one or two moments that I could just not figure out even in my winning run.

I usually have a lot more to say, but not this time.
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ano0maly
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby ano0maly » 3 years ago

Dark Hunter wrote: (as long as he isn't overusing that damned grapple).
I really wish you would drop the complaint about grappling and instead put more effort to make it work for you, especially with the newly out build that apparently improves on its sensitivity.

I directly replied to you and Validon98 last time the Strike Chain was criticized because I felt it was portrayed a bit unfairly and I got no answer back. I think it's unfair for you to repeat this again.
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Stink Terios
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Stink Terios » 3 years ago

This section is really fun due to the platforming, but the plot really detracts from the experience.

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Dark Hunter » 3 years ago

ano0maly wrote:
I directly replied to you and Validon98 last time the Strike Chain was criticized because I felt it was portrayed a bit unfairly and I got no answer back. I think it's unfair for you to repeat this again.
You were expecting a reply? Why? I don't like the game mechanic, and you do. I thought this was well-established and therefore the conversation was over.

That said, perhaps you are correct and I'm harping on this unnecessarily. Very well, I will consider my part said and drop the subject.


Anyway, as for today's video: I really liked the Subconscious Filter. Some different platforming, a relaxing atmosphere, a bit of exposition, and some characterization for the Warmaster, whom up to this point we knew pretty much nothing about.

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Ometeotl » 3 years ago

It's an0maly, he doesn't understand the concept of people not liking things that he likes.

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby jaxter0987 » 3 years ago

I wish raocow would stop saying that Jerry has a smaller hit box. Jerry ONLY has a smaller hitbox when moving. His hit box is the same as Claire's otherwise.

And really, aside from the death wall rooms, there were plenty of times where you could have just waited out the story. like that room with the undashable lightning and the 5 switches. There was no need to hurry and rush through... so you could have just relaxed and taken in the exposition.

I didn't notice anything I might have missed the first time I went through the Subconscious Filter... Is there something I missed other than Bomberman, Mario 3 references and exposition?
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Lostsoldier20 » 3 years ago

Stink Terios wrote:This section is really fun due to the platforming, but the plot really detracts from the experience.
Yeah I don't get this because
jaxter0987 wrote:And really, aside from the death wall rooms, there were plenty of times where you could have just waited out the story. like that room with the undashable lightning and the 5 switches. There was no need to hurry and rush through... so you could have just relaxed and taken in the exposition.
Plus, attempting to read the exposition (which I'm pretty sure Zephyr put there just to screw with you) and do the walljumps is a fun extra challenge.

But yeah. Backstory and so much flavor here. It keeps the witty DT humor with the spike walls to balance out the very dark info we get about Jerry and Claire.

And it's only going to get darker.

Then we'll have tomorrow's episode too. It's a neat set piece... but I really didn't like it. It got really easy to get lost.
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ano0maly
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Re: DT3 - raocow returns to Subcon

Postby ano0maly » 3 years ago

Ometeotl wrote:It's an0maly, he doesn't understand the concept of people not liking things that he likes.
Hint: there's a difference between liking or disliking something and giving a work a fair or unfair treatment.



Claire's neat wall climbing animation: well, remember that she had wall jump in DT2 as well. (She can wall jump in the MMX gate too, if you visit it.) Note that the MMX set faces away from the wall while climbing, but the other sets do not have that.

The empty spots in rooms C and H are there because Subcon was going to contain items at first, but Zephyr decided not to do that. I told him that those spots should either be removed or have something interesting...

You had the right idea when you used a charged ice shot for the seven linked switches. You just had to hit the middle switch at the same time the shards hit the other switches. Of course, the Bomberman bombs seem to be the intended solution, in case you still don't have the secret X special weapons upgrade somehow.
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby NegativeZeroZ » 3 years ago

If there's anything DT has trained me to do, it's speed-read while navigating through platforming hell.

Subcon is fun to interpret, so here's my take:

Aside from the obvious letters that spell out F

R

E

EDO

M, the "subconscious" part is just about who you think is responsible for what manifestations, and what that represents. For example, the spike wall can represent the heroes running out of time, or the Warmaster's

inability to turn back at this stage of Hex's plan

. Or it could follow the standard dream interpretation of running away from part of oneself, in either Jerry or Claire, or both, or maybe even Jeremy. You could argue that he's not really "there," but it's a fun option.

I think the most obvious interpretation is the airship. The heroes would see it as a sinister weapon that needs to be brought down, but here, its representation is a more innocent Mario incarnation, showing that the Warmaster considers it a tool of peace, and something that belongs in his vision for the world (which, here, is also represented by Mario graphics). The spike wall, on the other hand, is very out of place.

The "castle" in the last section is... well, this goes into "don't read unless you've seen the whole game" territory, so:

It's definitely a manifestation of the Warmaster's thoughts, because once he leaves, it starts falling apart, despite his early comment that too many memories makes the place unstable. The heroes describe the place as adorable, which fits with the innocent airship from earlier. It also looks like a work in progress, which may suggest that the Warmaster expects not to see the completion of his vision, but that he'll plant the seeds for it. Without saying too much about the ending, this falls in line with the plot pretty nicely.
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Count Mohawk » 3 years ago

NegativeZeroZ wrote:For example, the spike wall can represent the heroes running out of time, or the Warmaster's

inability to turn back at this stage of Hex's plan

.
I would put at least 2:1 odds on the spike wall being representative of

Hexor's planned destruction of the world

.

Although the sprite isn't one of the ones Hexor made in the first and third Distortion areas, the fact he tried that trick twice stuck out as slightly more relevant than usual to me.

Isn't it amazing how the subconscious mind connects things together?

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Sebby19 » 3 years ago

I am so glad you used music from the Somnom Woods (from Mario & Luigi: Dream Team). Though I would have used the actual dream version of Somnom Woods, I find that one much more calming and, well, dream like.

Compare:
Somnom Woods

Dreamy Somnom Labyrinth

There also exists slow and fast versions of the Dreamy version
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby ZephyrBurst » 3 years ago

I agree on the non-dream one feeling more dream like (in certain ways anyway), but in the end, I chose the dream one because I kinda like it more (yay preference) and the instruments sound more muffled, which is a common experience for myself in dreams. (Things being a bit blurred.) The non-dream one is also a bit more lively, it lost to the dreamy version there.

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby TaviTurnip » 3 years ago

I don't think I'll ever understand some talkhausers' insistence on talking crap about people/things when they talk crap about people/things constantly and with even less sense, but I guess that's nothing new.

Also I like advancing walls of death, Jerry! Don't be a liar!
Don't bother fighting if you don't intend to win.

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Sebby19 » 3 years ago

ZephyrBurst wrote:I agree on the non-dream one feeling more dream like (in certain ways anyway), but in the end, I chose the dream one because I kinda like it more (yay preference) and the instruments sound more muffled, which is a common experience for myself in dreams. (Things being a bit blurred.) The non-dream one is also a bit more lively, it lost to the dreamy version there.
Okay, miscommunication in both directions. I thought you used the non-dream version in the game, but on a second listen, realized you did (blame raocow for always having the music so low).

However, in my post, I said the dream version sounds more dreamy. So we both agree on the same thing, Dreamy Somnom Labyrinth is the best! :D
Actually, the version I prefer the best is the fast version in the game. Just a shame it isn't playable in the sound test menu :(
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Telamon » 3 years ago

TaviTurnip wrote:I don't think I'll ever understand some talkhausers' insistence on talking crap about people/things when they talk crap about people/things constantly and with even less sense, but I guess that's nothing new.
It's Only Okay To Be Negative About What I Don't Like!!!
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby thatguyif » 3 years ago

Telamon wrote:
TaviTurnip wrote:I don't think I'll ever understand some talkhausers' insistence on talking crap about people/things when they talk crap about people/things constantly and with even less sense, but I guess that's nothing new.
It's Only Okay To Be Negative About What I Don't Like!!!
Well, you see, guys, this is all based on our subconscious desire for the ultimate freedom, which is to say controlling one's environment as well as other people. Their hypocrisy is merely the manifestation of this desire in a way that defies rational convention from the external viewpoint but makes sense from within the self.

...

Who wants cookies?

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Stink Terios » 3 years ago

Oh boy, next time we're probably having

the last Nightmare Gate. It's a nightmare because it's boring tripe.
I cannot overstate how much I detest the spoilered thing. It's utterly insufferable and an immense black mark in the game as a whole.


Ugh.

UGH!!!!!!!!

With that said, the funnel-trip through the world is extremely well executed.

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Money » 3 years ago

proposal to change the topic's name to "Hex blows up a lot of robots"

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Lostsoldier20 » 3 years ago

Stink Terios wrote:Oh boy, next time we're probably having

the last Nightmare Gate. It's a nightmare because it's boring tripe.
I cannot overstate how much I detest the spoilered thing. It's utterly insufferable and an immense black mark in the game as a whole.

Without saying much about what's in the spoilers, I disagree.

On the first playthrough. It really isn't made for replaying...



So yeah that last section of Subcon, I just kept feeling like there was no direction even though there clearly is. Sometimes I just felt I was going the wrong way, but still making it back to where I was needed to be. And it loses so much tension after a few deaths and becomes "yeah yeah kaboom kaboom unstable blah blah."

And in my spoiler last post I said it only gets darker. Well... surprise! It was figurative, and literal! And since we're expected to go deeper in, obviously it'll get worse! I feel this part really drives the bit home about Hex really needing to be stopped. And Warmaster too, because for all his shtick in Subcon about "finding sanctuary" for the bots... he just blew up an entire peaceful village of bots. Even if he didn't touch the controls and let Hex do all the directing, he did this. They both must stop, as raocow was putting it well as he played through the world, it's kinda scary they did all this...

Just to say it a bit early, since we have a bit of time before it becomes super relevant... But get ready to purposely take episode 0s raocow. Death was an unexpected difficulty spike and a hard challenge. Some of the bosses ahead... Well I won't say more other than, take a 0 to learn the fight, take a second episode to win. I'll say more when we get closer to one of them.
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby thatguyif » 3 years ago

Lostsoldier20 wrote: Just to say it a bit early, since we have a bit of time before it becomes super relevant... But get ready to purposely take episode 0s raocow. Death was an unexpected difficulty spike and a hard challenge. Some of the bosses ahead... Well I won't say more other than, take a 0 to learn the fight, take a second episode to win. I'll say more when we get closer to one of them.
How many more videos do you think it'll be before he's done? Including Ep 0s? Zephyr guessed 140 at video 100, and now that doesn't seem likely, based on the narrative trajectory.

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby Le Neveu de Rameau » 3 years ago

Not Hex-Circles, raocow. Hex-Orcles.

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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby jaxter0987 » 3 years ago

"Not so hidden anymore" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahah....ha.....ha.......

I LOVE this turn in the game if only because I'm probably secretly Edgelord the First. I don't know, I always liked dark shifts when its done properly and this was certainly done properly in my mind. It wasn't sudden either... Things started taking darker turns when we found out what was REALLY happening to the classic video game heroes through X's revelation. Yes there were still happy go lucky times and a small break of nonsense in Gate 6 but afterwards, everything was heading south for good.
I also REALLY like the final Nightmare Gate but I hate how I can't revisit it. I mean, I understand the reasoning behind doing so but it still bothers me.
Bosses will be a thing, they'll CERTAINLY be a thing. I only wonder
Which one raocow's going to fight first. The one most likely would be [ispoiler]The Abomination[/ispoiler] but I could see [ispoiler]Decimator 1000[/ispoiler] being the next boss too.
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Re: DT3 - raocow blows up a lot of robots

Postby NegativeZeroZ » 3 years ago

To reiterate what Lostsoldier said with slightly different words, yes, bosses are their own videos now, however, you'll never stumble into one of these bosses by accident. They're all endgame bosses and they're all very clearly marked with cutscenes and/or extremely non-subtle ominous hallways equipped with warp gates. A single healing post and vaguely arena-looking room is just an enemy trap that casually exists.

And even though you haven't used it yet, remember that Assist Mode exists, and that its original purpose was for learning. You're going to be facing off against very difficult bosses with multiple phases and no checkpoints, so trust me, they deserve to be pelted with demos.
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