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DT3 - raocow and the game that ended

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WhattayaBrian
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby WhattayaBrian » 3 years ago

I just want to say...I may have completed the game 100% without getting hit, but raocow has just finished a much, much harder challenge.

Good job on your No Dash Buttons run, Mr. The Cow. I can't imagine being that masochistic.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby raocow » 3 years ago

see I told you guys I wouldn't need them
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Lostsoldier20 » 3 years ago

raocow wrote:see I told you guys I wouldn't need them
Yeah... but you woulda had like 1000 deaths fewer with them. Congrats either way! I'm really, really looking forward to the finale tomorrow(?) and how you react to it all. Especially since you're already laughing hysterically at Jeremy's mech alone.
WhattayaBrian wrote:I just want to say...I may have completed the game 100% without getting hit
I was kinda hoping for episode 000 so I'd have one more day of practice towards clearing the Warmaster... but raocow beating him today means for the next 3 hours, I'm going to be grinding it out into a (hopefully) clear.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby AuraLancer » 3 years ago

I'm so far behind now, raocow is just about to get the second piece of the Dragoon. I'd be sad that I couldn't keep up, but considering I fell behind because of moving, getting married and a honeymoon, I think I'll be okay.

The only spoiler for me in here would be if Zephyr changed the ending. I guess I'll find out after reading the posts tomorrow.

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Alice » 3 years ago

Am I the only one who noticed that raocow was talking about offsetting the damage penalty from the plot armor with the brave (or was it bravery? I forget which) sword but ended up replacing it with the sword instead?

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby NegativeZeroZ » 3 years ago

AuraLancer wrote:getting married and a honeymoon
Congratulations!

Also god damn that winning run was good. I don't even care if raocow meant to remove the Plot Armor or not, it was just good.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Sebby19 » 3 years ago

And he never once had to lower the difficulty!

Question for Zephyr before it's too late:
How come the Dragoon Pieces don't replace the Chip Pieces on the file select screen? I'd feel that would make a great indication of progress, since the Chip itself by that point has long fulfilled its purpose to the plot.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby ano0maly » 3 years ago

I don't know if raocow is going to show all of the abilities of Jeremy's robot

and I don't want to waste time with them when posting about what seems to be the final video

, so I'll briefly explain them now:
Jump Button: Hold the button and Jeremy can go up an impressive height. Press again and hold in midair to make the robot hover, which also causes it to ascend a little bit more.
Action Button A: A powerful rapidfire shot.
Up + Action Button A: An enemy-seeking rocket with overkill level of damage. I don't think it does AoE damage, despite the explosion.
Action Button B: A close-range flame attack that can toast enemies.
Up + Action Button B: A laser shot that goes through walls and enemies. It homes in on enemies and can hit them repeatedly to destroy them.
Action Button C: A pair of stationary shields. (Initially I thought it was an attack that hits enemies caught between them.)
Looking forward to the final stretch!
Last edited by ano0maly on 17 Jun 2017, 22:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby gamercal » 3 years ago

I still think these controls should be indicated in-game somehow. Seeing all these UI thingies with no explanation leads you to easily miss out on things which are super helpful to know about, and feels out of character with the game tbh.

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Stink Terios » 3 years ago

I'm not even sure what the point of putting in a bad ending is when the... other bad ending is a slap in the face and goes against what DT is all about. It's just bad. I would say more words but most of my frustration was already vented out through my Gate H hate.

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Meowthnum1 » 3 years ago

This ending hit me so hard the first time through. I felt so empty after playing.

Amazing game, Zephyr. Thank you so much

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Whimsical Calamari » 3 years ago

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Grounder » 3 years ago

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Money » 3 years ago

Yeah I don't think I like the ending. It doesn't serve any real purpose thematically, the story doesn't earn a "oh man everyone's dead except chao" ending at all, and really it's just sad/DEEPbait through and through. It's a complete betrayal to the player, and while yes, surprising audiences is a big part of storytelling, making the twists and turns of the story feel inevitable always trumps that. Not to mention what does them in is a plot device introduced at the very tail end of the game that only exists so everyone has a reason to die. It's not climactic, it's not the culmination of what the game's been building towards, it's just trying too hard to pull a OH MAN THIS ENDING IS SO MEANINGFUL ending. Hell, I'd be ok with just Jeremy dying, but pretty much everyone? That's just meanspirited for no reason.

Maybe there are games where an ending like that would fit, games where nihilism is a central theme or something, but this game isn't it. Especially when the entire game has been fighting against someone whose entire mindset is one of nihilism. By ending the game like this, it's saying that Hex is right.

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby jaxter0987 » 3 years ago

Alice wrote:Am I the only one who noticed that raocow was talking about offsetting the damage penalty from the plot armor with the brave (or was it bravery? I forget which) sword but ended up replacing it with the sword instead?
You weren't the only one to notice it but I just didn't care to mention it since he ended up beating the Warmaster with the 20% increase in damage by replacing the Plot Armor.

I hated this ending for all the right(?) reasons. #teamChao and all that nonsense that somehow started here, but Chao was the least developed character and yet is the only character to live in the end... Screw that noise... I already vented about the ending in the DT3 thread when I got it, but man getting punched in the gut sure felt nice...

The ending discussion starts there if anyone else wants to see what the rest of us who completed the game before raocow thought:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16068&start=125#p357654
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Lostsoldier20 » 3 years ago

"It doesn't matter. None of this matters. I don't need the Abomination anyway. While you were out there, it did allow me to prepare something much more special anyway. I think you'll like it."

Hex's final taunt to our heroes... He won at every turn. Hex was better at being a counter to Jeremy than most give him credit for. He might have lost in DT1, but he never truly lost here in DT3, even as you landed the killing blow. He still was able to escape this life. He still made Jeremy suffer, and not only that, killed him in the end.

I'll also say this: I appreciate this ending. The game slowly made its way in this dark direction for the entire game (and the very end of DT2. Like, that fight still scares me a bit), and sloped further and further downwards after Hex escaped the vault. We finally got our super climactic final fight, and a lot of what was said really mattered. "That hasn't stopped us before!... Well it has." "[rule of nothing is impossible] doesn't apply to you." Its a real shattering of the plot armor we've felt we had for 3 games. (dying during the ending sequence not-withstanding) The group isn't invincible. They never were. It just took the greatest hacker ever to bring them to their doom.

A very, very bittersweet ending to end a very, very good series. ZephyrBurst, I commend you for the 50 billionth time. It takes a special kind of game to make me play it a second time immediately after I beat it the first time. It takes an even more special game (and sometimes masochism) to make me play it on a mode that is blatantly unfair. I look forward to your future projects with gusto.

Now, where's [insert any/all of the tester(s) here] with an SGDQ run?
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby ACesspoolofHatred » 3 years ago

Okay, so now that everything's done and settled, few questions for Mr. ZephyrBurst since he'll probably be reading all this at some point.

1. What was your thought process in making this game end the way it did? Was it constructed because you saw the character's actions leading everything up to this point, or did you explicitly set out to make a tragic ending? I'm REALLY curious to know how this came about.

2. How did real-life Jerry and Jeremy react when they found out you killed off their in-game avatars? That must've been an interesting conversation.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Dark Hunter » 3 years ago

I've already told Zephyr what I think of this ending. I'll copy-paste it here if anyone cares to read it (it's a bit long).

Zephyr, I really did not like the ending. It made me feel like all that effort I put forth was wasted. Like what was even the point of playing the game if that's the reward?

Now, don't get me wrong, it isn't that I just don't like sad endings. Sad endings are fine. But this one kind of came out of nowhere. While DT3 was darker than the previous two games, the Distorted Travesty series, to me, always felt mostly light-hearted, revisiting old games we enjoy and making fun of game mechanics that bugged us. And occasionally making us feel frustrated as hell, but always with the knowledge that we could play better and win. The sad ending in which the world is saved, but all the heroes (save Chao) die and the survivors are left despondent feels extremely ill-fitting to the series.

I don't know if you were just trying to subvert everyone's expectations by not having a happy ending, or if this is your way of making it clear to everyone that Distorted Travesty is over and no more games in the series will be coming, but I felt like it could have been handled better.

All the characters we care about die (except Chao). Every single character who had a scrap of development and we've come to like gets killed off (except Chao). The only survivors are the one-dimensional bit characters (and Chao).

And Chao surviving doesn't soften the blow, because she literally does nothing upon the ending. She just vanishes.

I know some people have said that they don't really care about the plot, that it's just there as an excuse for the gameplay, but I actually ended up liking our group of sarcastic gamers. And now the game ends, and nobody we the audience actually care about gets a happy ending, which comes across as a bit of a punch to the gut.

I hope I'm not coming off as too critical. I still do believe the Distorted Travesty trilogy was an amazing set of games and I had a lot of fun with them. The ending was just very jarring and a little upsetting to me is all. I too would love to hear Zephyr's side of this, and why he wrote it that way.

I still think the game is an excellent one, and the story writing was for the most part greatly improved in this installment. I'm just offering some criticism on what I feel was a weak point... granted, a weak point that is rather obtrusive due to the fact that it's the ending. Should you continue to make games in the future, I would be happy to see what you can do.


Anyway, thank you for make games, Zephyr. I think most of us here have had fun with them.

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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Slit08 » 3 years ago

Yeah, I was pretty sad with the ending as well.

I was always wanting one thing, which I don't know if I ever suggested to Zeph: I wanted this to be the normal ending of the game basically. Getting the instruments, defeating the Abomination and Hex, after that fighting the Warmaster.
Even though it would have made this game even bigger I would have prefered an additional ending to the game as I mentioned. There would have been one thing you could have done in the main game that would have foiled the plan of Hex setting up the two power sources of the Warship (or as an alternative just knowing about the power sources before).
Earlier in game development there was a dialogue between the protagonists and John to return back to Neo Grime and blast the city away. Maybe at one point we could have gone back to the city and while investigating it further we would have read some plans about the power sources and stuff. We would have warned the Warmaster then and he would have helped us restoring the power sources.
At some point during the Warship chapter Hex would have found out though that his ultimate plan has been foiled and he would have gotten rid of the Warmaster (thus not having to fight him now). Instead the fight against Hex would have been different.
Zeph once wanted the fight to have a part where Jeremy materializes but instead of fighting in a mech he would have appeared in a human form and the game would have changed to a beat m' up. This could have been implemented in the fight. Basically it could have been like that: Hex fight as it is now, loosing the abilites, then isntead of the Mario part in the end he transforms into a different form , which appears monstrous and involves both your abilities (that would have still been opied by Kirby) AND your platforming Mario abilities. After that he would have tranformed one last time to a more human form again and it would have been the beat m' up part. This would have been a long fight but this one would have had two checkpoints, one after the regular final Hex fight and one after the monstrous form.

Thus we would have had the option of fighting the Warmaster for the normal end as the final boss and "Ultimate Hex" so to speak as the final boss for the best ending.

And in that best ending everyone would have lived.

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I hope that one day Zeohyr will go back to this game one last time and think about a good ending or the option to have a really good light hearted ending (beside this "normal ending" as I called it above). Even if he doesn't like the idea of changing a boss or whatnot it would be awesome if he at least would consider adding this option. I mean, most people I know didn't liket his ending, now even raocow wasn't a fan and it is honestly saddening me that the game would end on a somewhat sour note for quite a few people who invested the time and their care for the characters despite an awesome experience when it comes to gameplay and level design.
Last edited by Slit08 on 06 Jul 2016, 22:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby WhattayaBrian » 3 years ago

So, I too was surprised when I saw the ending (and it's recorded for all to see), but after I thought about it a bit, I feel pretty confident I understand.

Jerry - Sprite Rip - Dead
Claire - Sprite Rip - Dead
Jeremy - Sprite Rip^2 (his Dream Woods sprite is Kaiba from Yugioh) - Dead
Chao - Original Sprite - Alive

This wasn't just "DT is definitely finished". This was exactly as he said in the title text of the trap ruins: "my sprite ripping days are over". It was putting to bed--not just a series--but an entire era of development.

In this context, I feel like it fits a lot more.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby TaviTurnip » 3 years ago

*raspberry sigh noise*

I'm kinda let down. Though careful listeners could hear raocow's own emotions regarding this, when he wasn't making jokes. I dunno. I don't wanna talk about it.

Also I regret that Chao sprite so much and I've been wanting to comment on this for half a year. I'm so sorry at the crappy job I did on that, Zephyr, I'll make it up to you and everyone some day. I'm touched at getting a special line in the credits though, for someone who barely contributed. Thank you so much.
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All ending-related drama aside... I just wanna say that this game really nailed the spirit of DT1 and looked intensely fun to me, with so many unique elements that didn't usually conflict with each other. The amount of work put into it also seems way too insane and kind of shooting way too high for the stars, and I mean that as a compliment, but a concerned one. It's clear that every inch of this was covered in love, and so much stuff was just amazing and built so well, and getting to experience it for the first time through raocow was a real treat. This is top 3 raocow LP material for me for certain, as well as just looking great on its own merits. Even if everyone is spitting salt out of their mouths, don't let anyone let you forget how much work went into this, Zephyr. It's fantastic. A wonderful, flawed, fun thing.

#TeamChao

EDIT: Five minutes later and I realize the ending might have more significance than it looks like on the outside. It might not be about the game itself or what Zephyr thinks was a good story. Maybe it's his personal way of shutting down DT (or what it represents for him?) for good, for his own sake and absolutely nobody else's. This is a completely unfounded guess on my part as I know nothing about his personal life, but it's just something that came to mind for me as I was closing some tabs.
Last edited by TaviTurnip on 06 Jul 2016, 22:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby jaxter0987 » 3 years ago

Lostsoldier20 wrote:It takes a special kind of game to make me play it a second time immediately after I beat it the first time. It takes an even more special game (and sometimes masochism) to make me play it on a mode that is blatantly unfair.
This. I might even dabble in a third playthrough with Achilles Heel mode instead of Nightmare mode.

Sometimes, I can't believe how masochistic I am.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Telamon » 3 years ago

RobinLSL wrote:
kitikami wrote:
Telamon wrote:Random idea I just had, raocow: if you make the ending cut scene and credits their own video, you could have one more 'Untitled' to finish off the series.
[ispoiler]It still won't be a no-death video though : ([/ispoiler]

Maybe the last episode should be called [ispoiler]"Plot".[/ispoiler]
after the fact lol.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby Validon98 » 3 years ago

I haven't been watching the LP at all since I've been busy with my own and IRL and stuff, plus I dunno, I was starting to lose interest in DT3, but I feel compelled to at least watch the final episode and see how it ends. Thoughts and feelings edited once I'm done, but since I already knows what happens in the end... ugghh, I'll just say beforehand that the ending depresses me in a way I don't think a lot of things do. I've actually got an empty feeling as I'm watching the start of the video. I know it's probably intended but for a series like DT... it doesn't feel right. Perhaps that's just me, I know some people also aren't quite satisfied with things, but in my case, I suppose it's... I dunno, a whiplash the game took in the final act that doesn't gel with the rest of the series as a whole.

EDIT: So, that feeling of emptiness hasn't exactly subsided. Dunno if I'm glad to have completely skipped over the rest of the LP just to watch this one video, but maybe it's sorta that sense of futility I got. Hell, I dunno why I even continued playing the game after I found out that this was the best possible outcome the game had, and in fact I'm probably going to abandon my playthrough.

raocow mentioned what drew him into the series to begin with, and it's sorta the same case here. I didn't necessarily play it before watching the LPs, I found out through raocow and I had an interest because, well, I'm a gamer, and the gamer and programming humor felt right on track and enjoyable. If the trilogy had one strong point writing-wise, it was in the humor that pokes fun at gaming, programming, etc. Maybe that's just a thing that, as someone who likes video games, I particularly enjoy, but I feel a lot of other people here liked it for that. If not that, then the difficulty, or the references. I dunno.

The problem I find with not just the ending, but basically the point right after you're done with the CHAOS Weapons Facility... or rather, more accurately, the end of the Discombobulated, that's where it sorta stopped. The fun ended there. I stopped caring after that. I got as far as finishing Nightmare H and attempting the Abomination and then I threw my controller down and stopped. I have no intention of continuing. The whiplash kinda hit me that hard. Maybe that's just me. Maybe I give up too easily. But that's my thoughts on the matter.

...After this, I'm gonna go catch up on the VIP3 LP or something. I need something cheerier.
Last edited by Validon98 on 06 Jul 2016, 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DT3 - raocow and the neverending game

Postby BurntTenda » 3 years ago

WhattayaBrian wrote: Jerry - Sprite Rip - Dead
Claire - Sprite Rip - Dead
Jeremy - Sprite Rip^2 (his Dream Woods sprite is Kaiba from Yugioh) - Dead
Chao - Original Sprite - Alive
Well, that... actually makes sense.

I don't hate this ending, it just felt... odd. Although I do congratulate Zephyr for making characters that I actually got attached to, to the point where I actually cried a little to the thought of them dying.

This is the first game to make me cry.
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