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8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

http://talkhaus.raocow.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15771

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Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 01:02
by Telamon
I blame the feng shui of his play space. You need to redecorate, raocow!

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 01:06
by AlchemistHohenheim
If it's not already documented somewhere, maybe it should be mentioned which emulator each of the judges used when playing the levels in the readme file that I assume exists?

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 02:05
by S.N.N.
^ It's a shame where we've come to a point that the way a level plays + functions can be totally different depending on which emulator you use, but it actually appears to be the case more often than not nowadays. Oh well.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 02:17
by SAJewers
S.N.N. wrote:^ It's a shame where we've come to a point that the way a level plays + functions can be totally different depending on which emulator you use, but it actually appears to be the case more often than not nowadays. Oh well.
OK, I figured it out (excuse the retroarch shader I forgot to disable when taking the screenshot):

Image

If you stand here for too long, it will desync, because the top snake is offscreen, and won't start until it moves onto the screen. Seriously, sit there for 2 seconds.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 02:19
by mellonpizza
I can't tell if that's an emulator filter or a phone pic.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 02:20
by SAJewers
mellonpizza wrote:I can't tell if that's an emulator filter or a phone pic.
it's the crt-royale shader for retroarch. I forgot to disable it when taking the screenshot.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 02:22
by S.N.N.
That makes sense I suppose. I rushed through that part, and I'm pretty sure the other judges did too (and I'm willing to be the majority of people who played it also did). The level kind of forces you to be quick, and I never really found a reason to stop there.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 02:29
by Ignoritus
SAJewers wrote: If you stand here for too long, it will desync, because the top snake is offscreen, and won't start until it moves onto the screen. Seriously, sit there for 2 seconds.
So I was right then. As I said before, to some extent raocow probably should have been able to figure that out given his extensive SMW experience. On the other hand that ledge probably shouldn't exist where it is.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 02:38
by SAJewers
Yeah. If you wait on the top block, everything is timed perfectly, and is not a hard one to make. Hard to say if that was entirely the case though, as the way he controls mario might have been a factor as well (and probably is the case, since I could never reproduce most of the weird misjumps he had)

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 03:39
by Koopster
Yeah, I played through that level many times and even though that jump was kind of annoying, it just seemed way too mistimed on rao's end. I always rushed on that part to avoid that (and getting there faster made the block in the top spawn quicker, thus making the jump easier).

I can understand why two of the judges ranked it high - the level had interesting setups and yeah. It was hard and required you to learn how it works before you could get through it - I died on it a lot myself. But sometimes judges may mistake their flaws in the level as their own fault. I really still kind of like the level. There might have been some bias towards eating blocks in this contest due to what happened last year, but anyway I'm pretty sure there are no more than what, three levels that used them? So it's probably not that big of a deal. This year's rankings are still far more acurrate than VLDC 2014, you gotta admit that, but it's just impossible to make all rankings feel right to everyone

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 07:29
by Tyty
I personally didn't like either of the levels in today's video, but I feel like a lot of people (at least in the youtube comments) are being kinda soft on the first level due to the fact it looks good, and due to the fact the second one went really poorly.

It's super cramped and not a lot of the enemy setups are really too interesting. I also feel like a lot more could've been done to convey "sky castle" since you could really replace the pits with lava and just have a normal castle level.

Also screw some of those grey platform jumps. They're dumb.

I thought Eye of the Storm's snake patterns looked cool but I never ended up beating it. I haven't really come across a block snake level I've ever enjoyed playing in a hack though. They ALWAYS end up being very heavy on requiring memorization to me. I can't be the only person to think that way either.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 07:34
by lolyoshi
As usual, the comment section is as ignorant as they always been.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 10:29
by Willhart
I kinda like the music on the second level, and I have not seen too many stormy levels in these games. I'm kinda surprised of the large amount of hammer throwing enemies there, since they seem like a very difficult enemy to use due to their unpredictable behavior.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 19:20
by 10204307
The first level had nice atmosphere and music, but there wasn't too much of an underlying theme. It just felt like "here's a bunch of different obstacles for you to get through" without any sort of difficulty curve or progression. I couldn't really tell the first half of the level apart from the second half. Shrug.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 21:48
by Ometeotl
I don't really understand how basically anything in this level was done vanilla, so great job!

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 21:54
by S.N.N.
This is the only level I had to open up in Lunar Magic to confirm that it was indeed vanilla, but it all is. If anyone wants to ruin the magic for themselves:
-Steep, offscreen slopes + Urchins = weird speeds
-Layer 3 tide (with what appears to be the graphics removed)
-Toggling the midway such that the tile was replaced with a P-Switch (Morsel might need to explain this one)
Also, raocow: without going into too much detail, a couple of the top 8 are a little short, so it might be better to make just the top 3 + the postgame their own videos. Your call though .. just my own personal suggestion from experience.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 21:58
by Willhart
Blue coins mark the danger. Some of that enemy placement felt almost like art.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 22:23
by Nimono
oh man top 8 already, we're almost to the part I'm most excited for! :D I really like how Municipal Swimming did the water currents, I guess it's low tide so it never affects you at all?

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 00:18
by Telamon
I'm curious about the midpoint p-switch thing, but I also just couldn't tell what was happening at the very end, because it was so dark. Lil help?

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 02:13
by Piter Lauchy
Telamon wrote:I'm curious about the midpoint p-switch thing,
My guess as someone who knows nothing about SMW hacking: You start the level with the midpoint gotten. Once you beat the level, the bar reappears, only it's been replaced by the block.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 03:18
by Nimono
Telamon wrote:I'm curious about the midpoint p-switch thing, but I also just couldn't tell what was happening at the very end, because it was so dark. Lil help?
Piter_Lauchy wrote:My guess as someone who knows nothing about SMW hacking: You start the level with the midpoint gotten. Once you beat the level, the bar reappears, only it's been replaced by the block.
Nope! I looked at the level- notice how when raocow gets to the exit pipe, he's given a 1-up? The level's cleverly designed to where you pass through all 4 of those 1-up "checkpoint" spots in order, and then when you re-enter the level, they don't come back since you already collected the 1-up from them. The "midpoint" is really just a checkpoint #3 block, with the p-switch block placed below it so it's revealed once the 1-up's collected. Really ingenious.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 07:38
by morsel/morceau
Telamon wrote:also just couldn't tell what was happening at the very end, because it was so dark.
I think everything except this has been explained: there was automatic reznor fight (if you break through the throw blocks quick enough you can reach a moon), approximating an "alarm system".

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 08:51
by yoshicookiezeus
Luks - Laputa, Sky Castle
S.N.N.
CREATIVE USE OF VANILLA RESOURCES: 21/25
APPROPRIATE DIFFICULTY CURVE: 20/25
OVERALL LEVEL QUALITY: 22/25
AESTHETICS: 23/25

OVERALL: 86/100

COMMENTS: Really nice work with this one, but I found a few spots slightly unfair (e.g. the jump directly after the midpoint, a part earlier on where a Grinder falls out of nowhere and ambushes you). I like your usage of the wooden stakes and Bowser statues.

Eternity
CREATIVE USE OF VANILLA RESOURCES: 17/25
APPROPRIATE DIFFICULTY CURVE: 13/25
OVERALL LEVEL QUALITY: 15/25
AESTHETICS: 15/25

OVERALL: 60/100

COMMENTS: Design-wise, I must say this tries to do too much. There's a lot of sprites there which could be expanded upon more, and the difficulty curve feels a bit all over the place due to that. There's barely any consistency from one obstacle to another, which ruins the level's progression and makes it feel incomplete when it's done. It being rather short doesn't help either. Other than that it's fairly decent, though.

MrDeePay
Creativity: 17/25
Curves: 21/25
Level: 18/25
Aesthetics: 22/25

Overall: 78/100

Comments: Not bad. This level does feel pretty cramped in some places, but not to the point of being overbearing and detracts from the overall package. Another notable place of concern is a little early on in the level where you have to jump onto a "blocked" platform while a Grinder falls- giving you little time to react. The atmosphere is really well done, to boot.
eXcavator - Eye of the Storm
S.N.N.
CREATIVE USE OF VANILLA RESOURCES: 25/25
APPROPRIATE DIFFICULTY CURVE: 23/25
OVERALL LEVEL QUALITY: 24/25
AESTHETICS: 22/25

OVERALL: 94/100

COMMENTS: Excellent use of the eating blocks throughout this level. Some of your setups were really clever (e.g. the three downwards ones shortly before the midway). I feel like certain parts of the second half required a bit too much foresight and quick reflexes though, and they almost feel like they require you to know the level really well to even have a chance.

Eternity
CREATIVE USE OF VANILLA RESOURCES: 25/25
APPROPRIATE DIFFICULTY CURVE: 24/25
OVERALL LEVEL QUALITY: 25/25
AESTHETICS: 25/25

OVERALL: 99/100

COMMENTS: Excellent. Some very interesting use of the eating blocks, a lot of variety in the obstacles and it feels just right to play. Some obstacles could have been a bit more lenient as they required the player to react too fast, but otherwise great job.

MrDeePay
Creativity: 25/25
Curves: 13/25
Level: 17/25
Aesthetics: 21/25

Overall: 76/100

Comments: An example of of level with a very smooth concept, but a very rough execution. Many of the setups were designed as if advance knowledge is necessary to pass them without getting mangled in the process, as even a tiny mistake can prove to be fatal. Timing is also an issue because causing a sprite to appear too soon may result in you having even less time to pass the next obstacle when the window frame opens up (ie: First AF Hammer Bro in second half, another AF Hammer Bro near the end of the first half, etc). There's also the matter of not really compensating for all of the Question blocks that appear that can trigger the block snakes if/when you stand on THOSE.
Morsel - Municipal Swimming
S.N.N.
CREATIVE USE OF VANILLA RESOURCES: 25/25
APPROPRIATE DIFFICULTY CURVE: 20/25
OVERALL LEVEL QUALITY: 22/25
AESTHETICS: 24/25

OVERALL: 91/100

COMMENTS: This is probably the first time during a contest that I've ever outright asked myself how something is vanilla, but sure enough, it is. You've used sprite behaviors in such an odd, yet satisfying way, and it's clear that you put a lot of thought into the level. I feel like the second chunk (brown blocks) requires far too much precision though, and it really knocked the level down a bit. That being said, it was still one of the best vanilla water levels I've seen.

Eternity
CREATIVE USE OF VANILLA RESOURCES: 25/25
APPROPRIATE DIFFICULTY CURVE: 22/25
OVERALL LEVEL QUALITY: 22/25
AESTHETICS: 23/25

OVERALL: 92/100

COMMENTS: At first I wasn't even sure if it was vanilla, because it has a series of gimmicks that didn't seem like they would fit, such as the hyper fast (and diagonal!) Urchins. Some of the sprite placements felt a bit off in the main path, though, and the optional section was a bit too hard (but still doable).

MrDeePay
Creativity: 25/25
Curves: 25/25
Level: 24/25
Aesthetics: 20/25

Overall: 94/100

Comments: Yes, people, this level is vanilla.

This level manipulates layer 3 swimming and the Urchins' speeds to a magnificant extent that provides a completely new take on underwater gameplay. Everything holds together greatly (though there is one spot where the player can unexpectedly be hit by one Urchin while avoiding another) and the execution of this concept ("gimmick") is teriffic. The race in the second portion of the level does get tricky because of navigating through narrow spaces with Cheep-Cheeps, but the penalty for failure is a slap on the wrist.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 21:46
by Willhart
I loved the aesthetics today.

First level.
FUZZBALL FRENZY had both really nice colors and strangely realistic and beautiful trees. The progression on that level was great too, and everything felt nice and layered. The veins of the large tree were like in a real cross-section of a tree, but simplified.
Second level.
The effects were nice and there were a lot of detail and decoration used. I really like how the minecarts and rails were implemented, and how they were placed to the level. I've been wanting to make a level based on a similar idea for a while too.

Re: 8th VLDC: RIP Ningamer

Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 21:48
by Ometeotl
You forgot to censor that.
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