request grab-bag

[ano0maly]

This situation gives me AM2R vibes tbh

Do people even make videos of or stream that game anymore?

[KobaBeach]

i want to see him play scarlet curiosity, it'd be practice for all the ys

aren't forced to acknowledge it because of borderline-mainstream coverage.

we call this the kotaku clause :)
fuck kotaku

[Leet]

the Omens devs knowingly and repeatedly try to monetize their project against the terms of the IP owner [...] which is, at the very least, a jerk move

rethink this

[HatKid]

i want to see him play scarlet curiosity, it'd be practice for all the ys

That'd be cool, Scarlet Curiosity was decently fun. Though for some reason I had to have the graphics settings mid-low because anything higher destroyed my computer for some reason despite it being relatively powerful. I hope he doesn't be me and grind to level 99 to get a stupid and meaningless JPEG that says I did a stupid and meaningless thing. I know he wouldn't, he doesn't usually do that sort of thing. Especially since there's no in-game reward for it.

[Rixithechao]

the Omens devs knowingly and repeatedly try to monetize their project against the terms of the IP owner [...] which is, at the very least, a jerk move

rethink this

You know, Leet, a part of me still wants to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're arguing in good faith, but when you cherrypick and leave out an equally important part of the sentence like that you're really not making it easy.

the Omens devs knowingly and repeatedly try to monetize their project against the terms of the IP owner and general etiquette/consensus of the scene, which is, at the very least, a jerk move

EDIT: also I just realized there was already talk about touhou stuff in these last two pages, my bad lol

[KobaBeach]

i want to see him play scarlet curiosity, it'd be practice for all the ys

That'd be cool, Scarlet Curiosity was decently fun. Though for some reason I had to have the graphics settings mid-low because anything higher destroyed my computer for some reason despite it being relatively powerful.

SC looks really fun. What do you mean by destroying though? I had to turn down Tekken 7 myself (pirated for now, will buy sometime soon) to play at an okay framerate. Trials of Mana also runs like ass on my machine because it has no graphics settings and my PC has a slightly old graphics card (but 8 GB of RAM, so it just frameskips).

I hope he doesn't be me and grind to level 99 to get a stupid and meaningless JPEG that says I did a stupid and meaningless thing. I know he wouldn't, he doesn't usually do that sort of thing. Especially since there's no in-game reward for it.

I mean, raocow hates grinding, so. The thing is, some Ys games (mainly 1-4 (either only MotS or both MotS and DoY) iirc) do feature a bit of grinding, so I wonder what he'll do with that. Bite the bullet and edit it out?

[Leet]

Well yes I edited it specifically to the part I was responding to. I'm not sure why that's seen as malicious. I don't have anything to say about the other part (which is also not very important to me, but pretty much anything is more arguably value than IP rights).

[Skye]

Please shut up, Leet.

[Rixithechao]

You were responding to half of a statement in a way that misrepresented the statement. They are doing something that not just Sega doesn't want, but the Sonic fangame community overall.

There's a whole other conversation to be had about IP and if we were to dig into that you'd find I'm far from the corporate bootlicker that you seem to assume I am, but that's besides the point I made in this conversation.

Surely you at least agree that it's bad form to respond to "hey don't monetize your project, we're worried about our own getting caught in the potential crossfire" with "lol okay *changes project name and keeps doing it*" ?

[HatKid]

SC looks really fun. What do you mean by destroying though? I had to turn down Tekken 7 myself (pirated for now, will buy sometime soon) to play at an okay framerate. Trials of Mana also runs like ass on my machine because it has no graphics settings and my PC has a slightly old graphics card (but 8 GB of RAM, so it just frameskips).

Ah, I just meant that it ran at like 2 FPS and made my computer extremely hot and my fan worryingly loud. I don't know what kind of PC raocow has anyway so he might not even have the same experience I did. Trials of Mana has no graphics settings? Huh. I have the Switch version so I wouldn't know.

I mean, raocow hates grinding, so. The thing is, some Ys games (mainly 1-4 (either only MotS or both MotS and DoY) iirc) do feature a bit of grinding, so I wonder what he'll do with that. Bite the bullet and edit it out?

Mask of the Sun is definitely grindy but I haven't played Dawn of Ys yet so idk. Beyond the classic games, I think only Ark of Napishtim is grindy, OiF isn't, at least on Normal, Origin isn't, but I had played on Easy (it was my first Ys game) and the party ones, tend to be pretty easy, other than Seven. He might just try as much as possible to not grind, but as I am not raocow, I have no idea.

[Leet]

I just don't understand why you brought up IP rights anyway, and followed it up with preferring "devs that have the owner's/original creators' go-ahead", if you find it completely inappropriate or malicious to respond to those parts. How am I supposed to talk about this part in a way that is acceptable to you? If you didn't want it talked about, why include it at all? I recognize you brought up other reasons in the post, but I don't understand how that context really changes this.

I'm also not sure what's this talk about me "assuming" you're something when all I said is "please rethink this". So I guess my second request is "please don't overthink this". If I wanted to insult you and say you were something I would just say that, but of course I don't want to do that.

[Ditocoaf]

Leet, I think the idea is that they wouldn't have called it "kind of a jerk move" if there was only the ip thing. Both halves of the conjunction were required for the second half of the sentence.

I have no strong opinions on sonic fan games, I just can't stand to watch prolonged miscommunication.

[ano0maly]

This seems to be a case of the speaker intending one thing and the listener taking it as another. I do think it makes it look out of context to snip that middle part and still leave 'jerk move' after, because that snipped part is integral to the conveyed statement as a whole. But it looks like the intended message was that you object to that one part and have no comment on the rest, and it sounded to Rixithechao like a response to rebut the post in general.

I don't quite think this will be a threat to fangames as a whole, but just looking at the given project by itself, it does seem scummy to keep raking in donations and charging for Patreon benefits over a fangame even after the community has disapproved of it.

Ditocoaf came before me

[KobaBeach]

Ah, I just meant that it ran at like 2 FPS and made my computer extremely hot and my fan worryingly loud. I don't know what kind of PC raocow has anyway so he might not even have the same experience I did. Trials of Mana has no graphics settings? Huh. I have the Switch version so I wouldn't know.

I couldn't find them anyway @ Trials, not in the options or anything. I did pirate it though, full disclaimer, it could be in some config executable. And yeah loud fans is like. When I open too many bsnes-plus windows for SMW testing purposes (i accidentally forget to close them before opening another, i test using .bat files to insert ASM then open the rom on bsnes+ automatically) my computer fan goes bonkers and I'm just like

Mask of the Sun is definitely grindy but I haven't played Dawn of Ys yet so idk. Beyond the classic games, I think only Ark of Napishtim is grindy, OiF isn't, at least on Normal, Origin isn't, but I had played on Easy (it was my first Ys game) and the party ones, tend to be pretty easy, other than Seven. He might just try as much as possible to not grind, but as I am not raocow, I have no idea.

I have not played Dawn in a few years but Mask, I distinctly remember grinding to max level for safety. Kefin, I don't remember being very grindy either outside of gathering gold I think (and magic but lol at using any magic other than the first one you get), since it's more like a traditional Japanese ARPG than a Ys game, jank platforming notwithstanding. Feel free to correct me, though.

Kefin Expert definitely requires grinding, played a bit of it sometime ago on my Vita (Retroarch Vita's SNES9x cores are not very good at emulating it let me tell u) and it's basically Kefin with bumped up enemy stats. Not missing out on much unless you're into JRPG romhack/Working Designs localization type difficulty curves, no shade intended.

[Rixithechao]

I just don't understand why you brought up IP rights anyway, and followed it up with preferring "devs that have the owner's/original creators' go-ahead", if you find it completely inappropriate or malicious to respond to those parts. How am I supposed to talk about this part in a way that is acceptable to you? If you didn't want it talked about, why include it at all? I recognize you brought up other reasons in the post, but I don't understand how that context really changes this.

I'm also not sure what's this talk about me "assuming" you're something when all I said is "please rethink this". So I guess my second request is "please don't overthink this". If I wanted to insult you and say you were something I would just say that, but of course I don't want to do that.

Okay.

So.

That "please" wasn't in the original post, so it carries a much more assertive tone. And just in general, curt responses without elaboration tend to come across as indignant contrarianism rather than trying to engage with the conversation, especially when you make a habit of it; you almost always enter conversations this way and only start actual substantial discussions after people respond to your vague, dismissive non-statements in turn.

As much as you claim you don't like people trying to effectively read your mind or read into your words, as much as you say "don't overthink this", I very much get the impression you're fishing for those kind of responses sometimes. And you yourself kept ascribing an assumption of malice to me when I was talking about arguing in good/bad faith. Intellectual dishonesty =/= aggression or hostility.

I was feeling ready to write up another five paragraphs, but quite frankly I just don't have the energy for this. I'm not going to spend the rest of the night clarifying why I believe knowingly and willfully disregarding the wishes of a community that is complying with a broken legal system, in the absence of said community being unified enough to challenge that system, is thoughtless and inconsiderate at best and generally just a bad strategy (not that the Omens devs seemed to be interested in fighting that system for the sake of a meaningful revolution, just themselves), or why I felt like it's not unreasonable to think that stance can be inferred from my previous posts.

There's the abridged version. If you want to pick apart some aspect of it, or the rest of this post, all I have to say is let's agree to disagree because I'm done here.

(Thanks to ano0maly and ditocoaf chiming in as well while I was typing this up, y'all hit the nail on the head.)

[Leet]

I would say intellectual dishonesty does = malice, which is distinct from aggression, but maybe I'm understanding it differently from you.

"Understanding it differently" is the source of this whole miscommunication, but why does it always have to come down to talking about the conversation in a meta sense instead of just talking through the miscommunication, I simply don't know the answer to that. Even right now I don't really understand how your post was supposed to be interpreted differently, and I feel that could be talked about without five paragraphs + preamble about a bunch of meta bs.

Well, that's what I would post normally, but if you think my posts are secretly dishonest subterfuge to get people angry, I feel like I need to put something else here or you will just distrust this whole post. But it sucks to make this stuff so personal, it' so off topic.

[KobaBeach]

I would say intellectual dishonesty does = malice, which is distinct from aggression, but maybe I'm understanding it differently from you.

"Understanding it differently" is the source of this whole miscommunication, but why does it always have to come down to talking about the conversation in a meta sense instead of just talking through the miscommunication, I simply don't know the answer to that. Even right now I don't really understand how your post was supposed to be interpreted differently, and I feel that could be talked about without five paragraphs + preamble about a bunch of meta bs.

Well, that's what I would post normally, but if you think my posts are secretly dishonest subterfuge to get people angry, I feel like I need to put something else here or you will just distrust this whole post. But it sucks to make this stuff so personal, it' so off topic.

someone, not gonna name names told me you like to get into arguments for the sake of getting into arguments and honest to god i'm just like. you have really good takes on like gaming as an artform but for some reason whenever you try to debate you always come off as a contrarian curmudgeon and it's like. what is going on.

before you say anything the fact that you were unable to finish this post without adding the final paragraph, shows, on purpose or otherwise, that you really have no interest in arguing in good faith because you're inadvertently positioning yourself in a scenario where you can't really argue with this without having the background radiation of the weird distrusting implications and putting words in people's mouths. for all i know this could just be your weird way of interpreting things, which as someone with autism, i do relate with, but i'm not sure since i'm koba, not leet.

i'm trying to be lucidly open with this and not resort to pointless name calling and projecting so, do what you will. at the end of the day, you're basically asking the opposing party to do emotional labor and debate through your imposing replies instead of just asking like "what do you mean?" and it's like. wasting so much energy when you could just say like "mea culpa" or "can you explain"? the fact that you posted "rethink this", then added "don't overthink this" is like. what is your goal here? you're challenging rixi's perception, but then going on to disregard your own post as just fluff. it's confusing and feels like you're just arguing for the sake of it and truth be told i'm also confused.

lastly the third paragraph also goes back to when we were talking about konaka, where you said your statement, then added with like "just like that i become a villain" and i couldn't tell if you were like, being legit or joking, but if this is any indication you seem to shove all of yourself in like your debates and it's to the point where you try to make yourself seem like the victim when people feel uncomfortable with your constant pressing. this is the case where one would say like "touch grass" but as someone who doesn't like to use those words due to personal reasons, i guess i could say stop going into threads with the idea to debate people, that just creates a sort of toxic miasma surrounding your posts. just as nuance exists, so does context and prior history.

i'd like you to actually read this post but should you disregard this post or reply with a snide remark i'll just concede and not touch this any further because i have better things to do with my life than arguing in the forums of a french canadian man who is pushing 40 and acts like an invader zim character while playing scrimblo bimblo games for a living

p.s. play arc the lad 2 and treasure hunter g

[Leet]

before you say anything the fact that you were unable to finish this post without adding the final paragraph, shows, on purpose or otherwise, that you really have no interest in arguing in good faith

You think it's a sign of bad faith to be concerned with other people thinking I'm a malicious person? I don't really get where you're coming from with this. I wrote the third paragraph because I was saddened that Rixi thinks this of me (note: I'm interpreting "talking in bad faith" to mean "talking with an underhanded agenda instead of earnestly communicating", is this incorrect?), and thought, "if that's how I'm seen, clearly my first two paragraphs are also just going to come off as just as malicious. But I don't know how to make other people take me more earnestly, so I'll just write that I don't know what to write."

Like I said before, I don't want to talk about meta off topic stuff like that, but by this point the conversation has already been turned to "I can't trust you, I think you are a troll trying to provoke me, talking about the original topic is a waste of my time". I keep saying I don't want to have a personal and off-topic argument but like, I'm going to look way worse socially and morally if I ignore that, right?

For the record, I hate arguing and get extremely anxious whenever I post anything in public because I'm scared of people getting mad at me. I also read every single post I respond to in full. I tend to lead with short posts because I honestly think it would look worse to immediately post a detailed essay for everything I express and pretty much instantly get everyone pissed at me, compared to a short post that (I, wrongly, intend to be) self explanatory. Understanding other people is my number 1 priority when it comes to things like this, and I often openly say so, even though I pretty much always fail.

But like, all I can do is end on the "final paragraph" again: if you (and ~mysterious others~ - why would you tell someone "btw people talk about you behind your back, not gonna say who"? Please don't do that to people...?) think I'm doing all of this in bad faith and love conflict, then everything I just told you is untrustworthy, right? Again, I don't know what I can say to that to convince you otherwise, other than maybe apologize, though I wouldn't know for what specifically.

[SAJewers]

On that note, when was the last Touhou fangame LP? Has there been one since New Super Marisa Land over a year ago?

No there hasn't, though at one has shown up in patreon polls since, and there are at least a few others believed to be on the bucket list for future patreon polls

[SAJewers]

[TiKi]

where is the mônica rep

[Grounder]

where is the mônica rep

[KobaBeach]

he said mônica not monika

[idol]

i think after sonic raocow should do all the banjos and kazooies. this would appeal to me. and probably mostly just me. but ill give a kidney for it

[raocow]

that's like four games