A2XT: It's Over

[Voltgloss]

SMBX question I just thought of, and don't know the answer to: If a P-switch is active, and the player pulls a coin or raocoin out of grass in the ground, are they holding a coin or a block?

A coin.

Then perhaps the simplest tweak for the second raocoin would be to bury it - and the other P-switch - in the ground.

[Willhart]

I think you can just break the block that was originally a raocoin to collect it.

Edit: the king of the cacti is Cactus Joe from that one game raocow played.

EDIT2: It was from Kid Adventure 2. I'm glad we got him in the game.
http://youtu.be/TPOqmoYa2X4?t=3m30s

[Tatrion]

...was that teleporter exit in "his name was king" from Kingdom of Loathing?

[tigermoon]

Why does "Tank all the hits!" never register as a valid strategy in my mind? That makes that King Charles battle a lot easier than my strategy of being a coward and pelting him with fireballs from above.

[Sebby19]

I think you can just break the block that was originally a raocoin to collect it.

Doesn't work.

[Voltgloss]

For intrepid secret-seekers: there's a developer easter egg and bonus powerup hidden somewhere in the second half of Triforce Trials.

In the very last room, in fact.

[Chaoxys]

I think the little intro cutscene for world 3 is my favorite so far. Not a lot of talking and what not, just quick and to the point, plus it was funny which is always a plus.

[sedron]

World 3 is definitely a world. Level reviews!

Sandy Sands- There's kind of a lot of cutoff here. Like, a lot. It's very distracting and harms the level's aesthetic, which isn't super-impressive to begin with. The level itself feels very unfocused. Parts just kind of connect together with no overlapping theme other than "oh man a desert." There was probably a more elegant solution to the secret exit issue. With water-sand, it's extremely obvious the exit is there, while also being disorienting because no one in their right mind would assume the quicksand acts like water. Plus, you get air bubble graphics in the sand. The music doesn't quite fit as well as it could, and there's no reason to ever force a player to actually deal with quicksand (it's just not fun, and I avoid ever using it unless I need to.) Overall, there are a lot of flaws with this one.

The Triforce Trials- I remember this one being way harder a long time ago. I believe Toaster Birdo was a SMB1 Bowser, even. I'm sure a bunch of little changes happened to make the level more reasonable. In its present state, this level is still flawed, but not nearly as much as it used to be. Like Sandy Sands, it's very unfocused. I get that there are supposed to be different trials to test different skills, but it still feels a bit sloppy. It's like everything was thrown into one level for the sake of having it all there, which is rarely a good design decision. In addition, this makes the level feel really long. It does tend to drag. The aesthetic isn't terribly pleasing. However, there's some cute NPC dialogue here, and the Triforce at the end is actually pretty imaginative. I feel that the second half of the level is stronger than the first, with less of the focus issue mentioned earlier.

[Willhart]

I think you can just break the block that was originally a raocoin to collect it.

Doesn't work.

I remembered it wrong way around then.

World 3 is definitely a world. Level reviews!

Sandy Sands- There's kind of a lot of cutoff here. Like, a lot. It's very distracting and harms the level's aesthetic, which isn't super-impressive to begin with. The level itself feels very unfocused. Parts just kind of connect together with no overlapping theme other than "oh man a desert." There was probably a more elegant solution to the secret exit issue. With water-sand, it's extremely obvious the exit is there, while also being disorienting because no one in their right mind would assume the quicksand acts like water. Plus, you get air bubble graphics in the sand. The music doesn't quite fit as well as it could, and there's no reason to ever force a player to actually deal with quicksand (it's just not fun, and I avoid ever using it unless I need to.) Overall, there are a lot of flaws with this one.

The Triforce Trials- I remember this one being way harder a long time ago. I believe Toaster Birdo was a SMB1 Bowser, even. I'm sure a bunch of little changes happened to make the level more reasonable. In its present state, this level is still flawed, but not nearly as much as it used to be. Like Sandy Sands, it's very unfocused. I get that there are supposed to be different trials to test different skills, but it still feels a bit sloppy. It's like everything was thrown into one level for the sake of having it all there, which is rarely a good design decision. In addition, this makes the level feel really long. It does tend to drag. The aesthetic isn't terribly pleasing. However, there's some cute NPC dialogue here, and the Triforce at the end is actually pretty imaginative. I feel that the second half of the level is stronger than the first, with less of the focus issue mentioned earlier.

I don't really think the theme of Sandy Sands was that much of a problem, since I did not notice it on my playthrough and the testers did not complain about it either. It was bit less focused than some, but having a little cave section in there did not really brake my immersion.

I agree that it would have probably been better without the sand trap at the end.

[sedron]

I don't really think the theme of Sandy Sands was that much of a problem, since I did not notice it on my playthrough and the testers did not complain about it either. It was bit less focused than some, but having a little cave section in there did not really brake my immersion.

I agree that it would have probably been better without the sand trap at the end.

Theme doesn't have to refer specifically to aesthetics. In this case, I used theme to refer to lack of focus from a gameplay perspective.

Think about an official Mario game, for example. Individual levels are often remembered not by being "THE lava level," or "THE desert level." You get a level set in the sky and think "oh, this is the parabuzzy level," or "oh, this level is less about dealing with enemies and more about raw platforming." There's some obstacle type the level is based around, whether that be specific enemies, kill rooms, specific platforms, a maze, or any other type of thing.

Looking at Sandy Sands, there really isn't a gameplay theme. The level starts with optional P-switch stuff and Goopas, brings in the SMB2 dig sand once, has the weird quicksand you swim in, the quicksand trap at the end, an area with lots of pits, suddenly there's a cramped pyramid, jumping on giant vines, etc. Most of those concepts would be fine gameplay themes on their own, but the level decides to jump between them constantly, hurting the sense of cohesion the level should have had.

[S.N.N.]

World 3's cutscene was great. Rather than dumping a reference on the player that they may or may not understand, it was quick, raw, unbridled humour. I definitely hope there are more like this in the future.

[ano0maly]

Important
I'm a complete idiot. The super leek patch I released a while back is what is breaking Castle of the World for some people. If you've applied the Super Leek patch, you need to apply this as well to be able to start the level.

NOTE: If you downloaded the game recently, the Super Leek patch will have been included by default, so you will need to grab this.

I think it's best to link to the patches in the OP, so they don't just get scattered throughout the thread.

[Willhart]

Looking at Sandy Sands, there really isn't a gameplay theme. The level starts with optional P-switch stuff and Goopas, brings in the SMB2 dig sand once, has the weird quicksand you swim in, the quicksand trap at the end, an area with lots of pits, suddenly there's a cramped pyramid, jumping on giant vines, etc. Most of those concepts would be fine gameplay themes on their own, but the level decides to jump between them constantly, hurting the sense of cohesion the level should have had.

That might be the result of not thinking the gimmicks and the goals of the level before building it.

That level did have some flow through. It went from place and idea to another visiting them for a short while at a time. That kind of design makes the levels feel more organic. It might also be a better way to design a level, when it is supposed to showcase a place and not a gimmick, as long as the aesthetic theme still works.

Not having a tight level design might make the level feel less memorable though.

[Validon98]

World 3's cutscene was great. Rather than dumping a reference on the player that they may or may not understand, it was quick, raw, unbridled humour. I definitely hope there are more like this in the future.

A lot of the cutscenes from here on out will be like this. Not every one, but I'll put it to you this way: Most cutscenes after this aren't world 2's intro cutscene.

As for the first couple levels of world 3 itself, Sandy Sands I kind of ignored when I first went through before going back to beat it for completion's sake. It just kind of happens, really.
I liked Triforce Trials somewhat. It was a "flip the switches yo" kind of level that didn't overstay its welcome too much, at least for the first half. The angel section was a bit tricky but nothing impossible, which is pretty alright for World 3.

Trust me, though, there are some better levels in World 3. The ones that come to mind are

Plains of Ulysses Mad and Forgotten World That We Just Remembered

, moreso because they each were thematically interesting.

[oshaoshawott]

Kinda regret submitting Sandy Sands considering that I really hate the level now
Lots of bad things in it that I'd avoid if I made it today (cutoff, no real theme, 300 npcs in a row that all have a joke to say).

also it was my first level also i never post here

I was actually making an update for it (that wasn't really an update, but a new level, still titled sandy sands). It fixed everything i mentioned but i didn't finish it in time whoops

[sedron]

Kinda regret submitting Sandy Sands considering that I really hate the level now
Lots of bad things in it that I'd avoid if I made it today (cutoff, no real theme, 300 npcs in a row that all have a joke to say).

also it was my first level also i never post here

I was actually making an update for it (that wasn't really an update, but a new level, still titled sandy sands). It fixed everything i mentioned but i didn't finish it in time whoops

I don't think it's worth regretting the level. Yeah, it's flawed. Most people don't do the best job on their first levels (or second, or third... I'm included in that group.) You learn from it though and make better stuff later.

Plus, people will still enjoy it (it seems like raocow did,) so it's all good.

[Mabel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_w9_r3 ... page#t=200
so this used to be in world 3's intro, lovely track eh?

Warning: Incoming Angry Rant! (About a stage raocow hasn't played yet. So skip the spoiler tab if you haven't played ahead.)

Who the *hell* thought Baker Street was a good idea? That was such an un-fun, to quote raocow, garbage piece of garbage. The first half was fine; I loved the "film noir" aesthetics, and it was challenging, but still felt quite reasonable... but then... then came the second half. My freaking god, that was Bullet Hell in Mario form. A list of obstacles you have to deal with:

-Bouncing boulders that you can only kill by spin-jumping, placed on slopes.
-Loads of Bullet Bill cannons.
-Giant reskinned Snifits that cannot be picked up.
-Bullet cannons shooting from the bottom of the screen.
-Bob-ombs in bubbles floating around all over the place.
-Statues that shoot lasers at you.
-Floating, homing koopas.
-Hammer Bros. spam

And to make matters worse, there was a rain effect in the foreground that made everything hard to see, *and* there was a complete lack of powerups to help deal with that onslaught. It was just completely unreasonable, especially for a world *5* stage. It might've been more at home in, say, world *8*, but even after dealing with several stages in a row in which I died 10-15 times (and were hard, but fair), I was completely taken by surprise at the ridiculous difficulty spike there. I eventually beat it, but I died close to *30* times there.

Things I would have done differently:
-Add at least one more powerup. Maybe give you two mushrooms at the start. You're basically *going* to take at least one hit, so that would give you a *little* more wiggle room.
-Remove the first boulder bouncing down the hill. That probably resulted in at least a third of my deaths.
-Remove the hammer bro on top of the blocks, and at least one of the three at the end.
-Remove either the upward firing bullets, homing koopas, or the bomb bubbles. Any one would do, but all three make it truly excessive.

I *just* beat the stage, so these are probably just some spur of the moment "anger" feelings talking, but though the game has been far from easy so far, I've still greatly been enjoying it, and this is the first stage that's truly made me rage.

well you're defiantly one of the few who had trouble with the main level, Pholtos had a bit of trouble too but that was because of broken hitboxes that are fixed now.
theres also a talkable statue at the end of the first half with a powerup that will basically cheese the entire second half, thats not even including all the broken tier things you get from the top half. Without them, youll just have to play a bit patiently on the second half if you somehow manage to lose them.

the rain is pretty light compared to what it was before(which was legit hard to see) now everything is completly visible at a reasonable level.

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Triforce Trails still has a lot bad things and I'm surprised it wasn't fixed up more. All the time spent fixing up the game felt like a whole new project aside from the game project. The level was sort of all over the place.

A2XT's list of bad choices

• Bad noises
• In-jokes that ruin the flow of the experience
• Recurring text that seems like in-jokes
• Not enough Hat-Bunny Gijinkas
• Random friendly NPCs mixed in with harmful ones

Edit: Cutscene was the crowning moment of this video for sure.

[docopoper]

Triforce Trails still has a lot bad things and I'm surprised it wasn't fixed up more. All the time spent fixing up the game felt like a whole new project aside from the game project. The level was sort of all over the place.

That level was the one I changed the most out of all levels. I made large changes to the aesthetics in the mini-stages and restructured them quite a lot (without changing the basic premise or layout). Honestly I was getting concerned I was changing it too much and didn't want to do anything more. I actually think the level is pretty decent now.

Also I don't think the in jokey nature of the game is overdone - that has only been complained about for one video. And that's because raocow did two levels that seem very in jokey in one video.

[ztarwuff]

Least Favorite: Koopa Time. Again, not a bad stage in and of itself, but I admit, I wasted a *lot* of time there trying to kill all the enemies, which was quite a feat considering you're dealing with probably the worst character for killing enemies (no spin jump), and there's limited "ammo" to kill the enemies you can't stomp on. I felt pretty silly when I discovered the secret path and realized you didn't *have* to... I think changing Bowser's line slightly would help to reduce confusion. "Kill all the enemies! ... or not, see if I care!" Something like that.

Incidentally, this level was why I made MAKL Vanilla the way it was. I had that level in mind when developing it and went out of my way to do the opposite of what was done in that level.

Another fun beta-testing fact about Sandy Sands' secret exit:

Originally, the sandfall in Sandy Sands - that the player has to swim up to reach the secret exit - wasn't water, but instead had a concealed vine behind it that the player had to climb up. Because this gave the player no indication when jumping through that they could actually go up the "sand," it made the secret exit unfairly hard to locate, and was accordingly changed to the "water" sand it is now.

When I beta-tested it, I personally didn't have a problem. I saw it and immediately wondered whether it hid a secret and it did.

What put me off was the fact that there was a vine, but since I instinctively press up whilst trying to go through quicksand, I didn't fall at all. Mind you, it does beg the question of why I thought it was proper quicksand, seeing as nothing else in the entire level was quicksand to begin with.

Personally, I regret not being harsher on people who mixed friendly NPCs with enemy NPCs. It's the one complaint I had when somebody edited my level to contain a friendly NPC that looked just like an enemy NPC that was already in the same level.

Seriously, there's a reason why the friendly bob-ombs in Super Mario 64 are pink. It's so they're easily distinguishable from enemy bob-ombs.

[Willhart]

It kinda depents on the situation. The red spike top thing being stuck and unable to harm the player was genuinely funny and clever to me. The green bat after it less so. Player was carrying an item too on that part, which made talking to anything more dangerous in general. Player might feel tricked if they die from dodging a friendly npc.

Edit: It would be more of a problem, if the player thought something is friendly when it was not.

[Isrieri]

When I tested Sandy Sands, I didn't know there was a bonus room at all, so having water in the pipe was a wonderful compromise. As was the decision to change the warp to the "treehouse" from a pipe warp to an instant.

It would have been better design if neither of those warps were located in the places they were. But you have to pick your battles.

I still really don't like The Triforce Trials, but its true I never gave it much of a chance.

[Alice]

I think it's best to link to the patches in the OP, so they don't just get scattered throughout the thread.

Haven't they said they're updating the main download with the patches?

[YelseyKing]

Least Favorite: Koopa Time. Again, not a bad stage in and of itself, but I admit, I wasted a *lot* of time there trying to kill all the enemies, which was quite a feat considering you're dealing with probably the worst character for killing enemies (no spin jump), and there's limited "ammo" to kill the enemies you can't stomp on. I felt pretty silly when I discovered the secret path and realized you didn't *have* to... I think changing Bowser's line slightly would help to reduce confusion. "Kill all the enemies! ... or not, see if I care!" Something like that.

Incidentally, this level was why I made MAKL Vanilla the way it was. I had that level in mind when developing it and went out of my way to do the opposite of what was done in that level.

Oh, huh. I forgot about MAKL Vanilla when I wrote up my favorites. That one is definitely up there; very solid, well designed stage, actually making good use of Kood's abilities. The lack of a gimmick, IMO, *was* its gimmick, and it worked quite well. I also liked the gag with the name.

[Joseph Staleknight]

Oh hey, we ran into a western! (Though the levels would rather have a beach episode with a lost ruins subplot instead.)

his name was king (Minnakht): A decently atmospheric intro level. That mirage gag got me the first time I played through it, and I really like the choice of music for the desert trek. I just wish there were more (and more absurd) mirages the longer you trek, though.

Start of World 3 Cutscene: For a Few Leeks More (Holy): I'm really impressed with the technical execution of this cutscene, if only because that must have taken a lot of effort and coordination to pull off that choreography. I also had a bit of a chuckle seeing raocow near a literal horse. The sun must've really gotten to him.

Oh, and way to leave your friends (and Kood) in the dust there, Demo!

Sandy Sands (oshaoshawott): I kind of figured one of the first levels in this world would be a fun romp through the imaginatively-named lands, so I had a bit of fun there in my playthrough. However, there were a few things that I wasn't so hppy with now that I think about it. First, there's the quicksand trap you have to traverse through. I agree with raocow that it's pretty obnoxiously in the way and doesn't really do much but to make something more difficult than it needs to be. Second is that hidden RaoCoin late in the level, which is a rather poor place since you'll probably skip it if you don't know where it is (unless the place hides a bottomless hole as well, in which case I still have a problem with hidden hazards). Last and probably least, I never much liked the idea of powerups being friendly and having lines (which I also found in Wood Zone and Just Rusty!), especially when I really need one to stay alive. You're supposed to give me awesome powers, not make small talk!

It's too bad this was oshaoshawott's only level in this game. I'm sure that, aside from those issues and his regrets, he could make some more decent romps.

The Triforce Trials (GanonTEK): Oh, I remember this one! This level used to be in World 2 before the great level shuffle, probably because the aesthetic felt more woodsy than would be appropriate in the desert.

Now, I was surprised when I found the source of the music for the Trial of Courage. I actually played The Wind Waker HD, and even setting aside the MIDI quality I can recognize little of the tune from what I remember playing through Forest Haven. Might just be me, though. At least that little pet peeve's not as annoying as the Windfish Egg part. Even with the generators toned down and the ability to mash the egg against the glass, I still had trouble getting to that Green Village Furba.

I definitely remember the Trail of Power being different in the beta. There used to be eggs littered all over the area (including the one

Link (shame on you!)

was hiding in), and otherwise you didn't really have anything to cheese the fight with. After defeating Ludwig/King Charles, the Village Furba (or a box?) would appear so that you could finish the trial.

As for the Trial of Wisdom, there really wasn't much to say other than I really appreciate how there's a Village Furba to kill now instead of a box to accidentally miss on your way out. Otherwise, pretty decent but hardly memorable compared to the other two trials.

For the latter half of the level, I originally thought that the Trial of Bob would be the most difficult part to play through, simply because of how many enemies there were. Only in this playthrough do I realize how simple it actually is to go through without cracking the egg and getting blown up. It helps that some of the enemies were not actually harmful.

Finally, there's the Triforce Room. For a while, I thought the Triforce was blinking in and out of existence instead of merely rotating like in the original Zelda. That's a rather neat detail that I feel bad about missing.

In summary, it's very apparent that someone likes his Zelda, and it more or less shows here. I really wish that GanonTEK also made more levels as well, even if they won't show up until Episode 3 or so.