raocow's talkhaus

Abstract Assault, because I was dumb and didn't unlock the town path before getting to it, became my life farming level. Other than that, well, it happened. I don't know, maybe it would have been better had it been longer and added something more than just "blue hurts and triangles hurt also".

Family Reunion is my least favorite level in the entire game and the only level that I cheated(had to edit) on. Most of my demos came from the 1st section, but man was it annoying. That the elevator destroyed itself was even worse, since I kept falling all the time of the spike platforms to the level below. When I got to the 2nd section, I was running out of lives, so the idea of riding the disco again, dying, getting a game over and going back to the start of this level filled me with dread. Now I had a different problem, though. Remember, how in Magma Cave, some people complained about the game becoming unplayably laggy? Same thing happened to me in the Magma Cave and in the several parts of the game. This level's 2nd section was one of them. I had to go into editor and delete some parts to prevent it from lagging so hard. Thankfully, the second section was much much easier than the first, but jesus christ. Disco shell riding. Worst gimmick.

At least raocow's difficulties with Family Reunion meant that he got to show off both Sheath easter eggs.

The hardest part of Family Reunion, in my opinion, is the spot in the first half where raocow fell several times and had to suicide - despite the shell still being there - because the elevator was gone and did not return. Forget complaining about having to take extra time to die on purpose in The Floor Is Lava! - I found it most annoying to have to keep taking the (more significant) extra time to run to and jump in the pit in Family Reunion whenever the same happened to me.

Oddwrath, next time you run into a section where SMBX becomes unplayably laggy, try disabling the sound - that seems to work for some folks who have the same issue. Also, what is your "disable frameskip" setting?

There are only like three obstacles on each half of the level that need precision.

After learning to control the shell, I did not find it that hard at all. To me the hardest part on the second section was the jump after the midpoint with the blue shell. That was made easier too, along with everything else in this level. To me it's nowhere near the worst level in the game.

Voltgloss wrote: Oddwrath, next time you run into a section where SMBX becomes unplayably laggy, try disabling the sound - that seems to work for some folks who have the same issue. Also, what is your "disable frameskip" setting?

I actually found about about the "disable frameskip" when I was playing the relay level. Way after the Zebraspace. Disabling frameskip worked, so I didn't need to disable sound, even though, I still don't know what's smbx's problem with four smw spiketops on a solid rectangle.

Yeah, I honestly had no problem with the first half once I figured out how to control the shell. It was always the second half that gave me trouble.

That little cliff before the first pit in the shell riding level should have been lower, so you can jump back and get the shell.

I adapted to controlling the shell pretty quickly, it wasn't very hard.
I didn't know about those Sheath easter eggs! I love that Demo's Bah Mitsvah made a return!

I really enjoyed the Sheath SHMUP.

I'm kind of sad how much my level got overshadowed by raocow finding it easy due to being better than most players and then failing really badly at simple pattern recognition on the next level. Only one of the YouTube comments even mentions my level.

docopoper wrote:I'm kind of sad how much my level got overshadowed by raocow finding it easy due to being better than most players and then failing really badly at simple pattern recognition on the next level. Only one of the YouTube comments even mentions my level.

To be fair, I suck at shmups and I cleared it really easily first try myself, it's not too hard of a level with the constant powerups everywhere.

And... yeah. Family Reunion is "That One Level" I constantly allude to as being the only one where I never felt in control. Even when I figured out how to "steer" the shell (which took a good ten demos to figure out), having to do tight turns on tiny platforms, in which the shell does its best to fly off cliffs... yeah, I sincerely did not like that stage. At all. It was the only stage in the game where I truly raged at everyone involved, for simply letting that atrocity into the game. It was absolutely my least favorite stage in the *entire* game. The whole thing felt glitchy as all hell, especially the second half, due to SMBX simply not playing fair with moving layers.

Now, I had more than twice as many deaths in The Floor is Lava, but that stage was generally a lot more on the "fair" side. You didn't have to figure out any wonky new mechanics or deal with engine glitches, and it also helped considerably that docopoper was so open and helpful about that stage, and was willing to fix some of the stage's biggest "screw yous".

Meanwhile, Abstract Assault was one of my favorites in Zebra Space. It was super simple, but I had a lot of fun with it, and that something like that was even *possible* in SMBX honestly surprised me. I like how it disguises itself as a generic grasslands stage before shifting into something different, and then, as raocow implied, it shifts back near the end as though nothing happened.

I love shmups and so I love Abstract Assault. It gives a feeling of a simulation, like preapring character to fight in space or something. It would be cool to see another level like this, but with more variety.
But none theless, great job docopoper.


Family Reunion, while interesting, is real pain. But atleast ending is nice.

How is it unfair to learn new skills? It makes it so that there is no way to win on the first try or without some practise, so I can understand part of it. This is the post game though so it should be expected to some extend by now.

There should have been a Disco Shelltice

Willhart wrote:How is it unfair to learn new skills? It makes it so that there is no way to win on the first try or without some practise, so I can understand part of it. This is the post game though so it should be expected to some extend by now.

Personally, my main problem with it was that nine times out of ten if my timing was a bit off and I didn't make it onto one of the moving spike platforms I instead had exactly one pixel over the spikes and took a hit. There is literally no way to realistically avoid having that happen, if it's possible at all, since the shell is pretty much the exact width of your character. And considering how difficult controlling the shell already is, also having that distinct a possibility of just kinda dying through sheer bad luck doesn't exactly make for a pleasant experience.

Leet wrote:There should have been a Disco Shelltice

There was the first room in EuroShell R&D. And then Family Reunion used different mechanics anyway because #yolo

On another note, Abstract Assault is what happens when a sane person designs a SHMUP in SMBX where the walls hurt you, as opposed to when I make one. Unfortunately I couldn't copy the mechanics because a) that would be raining on Docopoper's parade of uniqueness and b) the behaviour is hardcoded into the exe and I wouldn't know where to begin.

Yeah, I could never really get the hang of the shell riding in the 1st half and always thought it was a bit janky. Hardest level in the game for me right here.

Also Abstract Assault is probably one of my favorite levels in the game with all the technology and sweet atmosphere it uses. Fun level too! Although I think the power-ups were placed a bit too abundantly.

Yeah, Family Reunion, not the best level. The first half was originally disco shells with wooden blocks attached to them which made it even more janky. I think shell riding like that was just not a good gimmick to base a level around.

raocow, before you go to the Castle of No Significance to claim your last prize, replay one of the end cutscenes on the ship (one that you can quickly mash through). The place they dump you after the scene is, interesting.

Levels happened today. How about that.

Oh, right. I just realized I never did this, so for all those out there who felt cheated because it hasn't happened yet (come on, surely there must be *someone* who cares!), I present...

WORLD 8 FAVORITES!

*thud*

Favorite: Final Stage (Name Pending). Can...can I do this? Is it allowed to like the final stage the best?!?!? I MUST KNOW! So, yeah, I loved the substages where you played as each character. The Demo Sisters stage being, by far, the best, and the final battles were great. A platform danmaku fight that *did not suck*! That alone was amazing. I wasn't wild about the *ending*, though. But I guess it's vintage Talkhaus, and the game *does* have a second episode coming, so yeah. Also, it's a shame that the thwomp gimmick in Kood's substage didn't work well.

Runner up: Monty Mole's Aerial Extravaganza. This one was just silly, fun, nonsensical, and I loved it all, man.

Least Favorite: There weren't any stages in world 8 I particularly *disliked*. But Alternative Invasion was probably, to me, the weakest stage. Very unmemorable.

the first part of family reuinion might have worked better if you were standing on a platform with walls on the first shell segment, so you could easily just full run one side to the other and control it much eaiser. It doesn't seem too bad a concept, it just needs to be easier to control and the level design needs a muuuuch larger margin of error (and more saftey walls so there's no "whoops go die" if you fall off")

That first level was cool and a good place to farm lives if you ever need to do that. That second level was also cool, but it reminded me of a very old trainwreck video you did for TSRP2 with one of the Goomba Quest levels. This one will be known as Goopa Quest to me.

I will admit that the level design for Abstract Assault was a little bland. The creation of this level was one of those cases where I was messing around with code and realised I could make the player float; so I didn't really have many ideas for what to do with it at that point. If I made it now I think it would probably end up a lot more like a Rayman Origins SHMUP. I was kind of afraid to do moving layers for some reason because I thought it might be too much for a new gimmick but I kind of regret doing that because not doing that basically made me design "tight corridors where the walls hurt you" the game.

Also Calleoca was by far the most technically advanced thing I made. This level just seems more so because it's such a dramatic gameplay change.

Willhart wrote:How is it unfair to learn new skills? It makes it so that there is no way to win on the first try or without some practise, so I can understand part of it. This is the post game though so it should be expected to some extend by now.

I just noticed this post, and feel compelled to respond to it.

How is it unfair, you ask? Well. Rather than explaining that, I'll instead ask you how it's "fair" that you're given a completely new gimmick that doesn't work very well, has no explanation for *how* it actually works, and provides absolutely no opportunity to practice it safely? EuroShell R&D and Blue Surfer, two similar stages in premise, both had tutorials and safe environments to practice this new skill in. Family Reunion throws you right into the fire, with a gimmick that is even harder to make proper use of than the two others above. Being expected to die a dozen or so times just before you're able to get the hang of how a gimmick even works, let alone still having to deal with its finicky nature, is bad level design, plain and simple.

Or maybe you could explain how it's "fair" that, even once you've figured out *how* to control that disco monstrosity, that it still amounts to sliding carefully across a fast moving object not much bigger than you are, in which if you're one or two steps too far to in one direction, it'll disregard your "order" and continue to careen off a cliff, while if you're too far in the other, you risk falling off and getting hurt/killed *by the shell itself*.

Or how about how "fair" it is that you're dealing with moving platforms that give you absolutely no let, giving the shell only seconds to get onto it, in which you often find that you're a split second too early or late and either die, or have to stressfully steer the shell back and forth across a tiny moving platform, knowing that you have absolutely *no* leeway, as going too far in either direction means death.

Or is it "fair" that the stage actively gives some noticeable "screw yous", such as the elevator midway through the first half simply being one way, with the entire floor below it collapsing afterwards, meaning that even if you survive falling off the next set of platforms above it, there's no second chance, and you're forced to commit suicide?

There is nothing remotely "fair" about this stage. It's a mess of a hard to control and horribly imprecise movement gimmick, mandatory split second reactions, large amounts of tedium, rampant engine glitchiness, and sections that are actively designed to dick you over.

In essence, Family Reunion is A2XT's answer to the USS Suboptimal. There. I said it.

It is a mean stage but how the heck is it rly that hard to figure out how the disco works

youve played with discos throughout the whole game including bouncing on top of them so by this time you should probably have the idea how how a disco responds to the player's position. the only new thing is the fact that you stand instead of bounce on it, which you will probably figure out when you go to bounce on it and that'll tell you all you need to know

getting a more precise hand on the physics and momentum for the spikes is what you have to learn, but the disco itself is just an easier version of things youve already done

All the platforms were extended with two to three blocks to give player more let. There is enough leeway for the player to complete the first half in under twenty or so Demos. There are also places where it is safe to wait for the platforms to line up. On the second up-down platforms it was inside the spike elevator. I should probably have made the platforms even more wider, but I was afraid of removing all of the challenge.

Fairness is counted on how many deaths the level takes to complete and if it is possible for most to do so. A level should be also judged on more then just on the gameplay aspects. I'd say the next level after this one is worse in many ways in comparison. I hope it still makes for a good video.

Edit: I wonder if playing with the keyboard gave me more precision while controlling the shell.