A2XT: It's Over

[Crow]

Action of Syo and Bon gives you exactly what it says on the tin and I can appreciate it for that.

Unseen and Mysterious Future is the level in the game where I died the most out of all the mosts (by like, 3 demos over second place but nyeh). I'm just going to talk about all the subsections because why not.
Blue Koopa Spam - NO. This should not be in the game. I'm sorry, but this is utterly awful.
Platforming - I like this section a lot, it's not easy but it's pretty fair and consistent. I didn't ever beat this one but I came close.
Sandopolis - Yeah, I like this one too. There's basically two options, take it slow with a fire flower or rush through it like raocow did, and both are equally valid (as long as you have a fireball).
All Koopa Spam - Not a huge fan of this one either but at least it's short. I never got past the vertical climb section though because it's almost impossible to get past that part without taking a hit. Like, one-in-a-hundred at best.
Red Hurts - This is waaaay too long and that really works against it, I got decently far in this one myself but still considered it basically assured death when it came up.
Castle - Dunno about everyone else but I found this one the easiest of the three in the second set, it's the one I cleared of the three so that could be why, but it's mostly about learning safe spots and timing your jumps.

[pholtos]

Gonna go on record here.

So Unseen and Mysterious Future was a level in testing I considered waaaaay too spammy. As such I consider it one of those levels that I don't really enjoy in the game. So yeah.

[Zygl]

Unseen and Mysterious Future actually isn't too bad as Sheath if you happen to get lucky and get the rooms that aren't too bad as Sheath. I got through with like 5 demos going through the desert and the one with all the red enemies, but I imagine that wouldn't have been the case had I kept getting the moving layer room in the first half instead of just getting the desert a couple times until I beat it.

Tomorrow's Transcendental Dimension, right? I am if anything more excited for that than I was last time I mentioned how excited for that I am.

[Validon98]

Oh right postgame started and I forgot to comment.

Other than Serac's very uh... I'll say sadistic requests (although really if you wanted Demo to die there's much easier ways to go about it than "oh hey please kill yourself" with the justification being the demo count at the top)... Although despite that the short time she's been on screen I sorta kinda like her I guess? *shrugs*

As for levels, The Floor Is Lava is perhaps one of my favorite levels of the postgame. You get a relatively simple level, with the secret exit then traversing it again through the difficult challenge of not touching the floor. I died about 100 times to it, but I didn't get really frustrated with the level at all. It's an entirely fair level, all of those deaths were on me and me alone. I'm kind of sad to see the box with the key in it have its appearance changed to say "HEY THE KEY IS HERE" more or less, because it was completely fine before, but ah well.

Action of Syo and Bon... well I never played the original Syobon Action, but when I heard the music I should have expected something super Kaizo like that. I don't mind this level being Kaizo in nature, because of A- the reference, and B- the level isn't that long anyways. I do remember though when I played I thought the midpoint was a trap, so I jumped over it every time and beat the whole level without the midpoint. :V

Unseen and Mysterious Future... I'm kind of amazed raocow did it with that few deaths, but then again I was in like... probably somewhere about 700ish to 800ish demos when I entered the postgame, soooo...
Overall I don't like this level. It just feels way too spammy in parts, the random nature means you can't prepare yourself too well for any section unless you time yourself to get through the intro part in the same amount of time every time (since the "randomness", after going through the editor, is based on delayed events and cycling through warps, not LunaDLL), and... well... yeaaaah. I will say the sections I eventually beat were the blue koopa section (I had tier two/three powers, so...), the desert section (it's actually the easiest once you realize that if you don't have a fire flower, you rush it like there's no tomorrow), and the koopa rush lava section (the first and second waves you need to rush, the third you need to thin out with a shell), although I did come close to beating the castle section and the plant section. Also what added to my frustration is that this level actually game overed me despite me having a decent amount of lives (like... around 50ish I think), which forced me to restart the level. Overall I had 117 demos from this level alone, compared to the 99 demos of The Floor Is Lava! and the 112 demos from the final level of Zebraspace.

Edit: Note one thing, the level in the main with the highest number of deaths was, for me, Spooky Surprise Ghost House, at 56. I did not comment on that level, but it was kind of one of the most frustrating levels of the main game to me, but eh, not going to comment further, we're way past World 7. :V

[Moosh]

Action of Syo and Bon sure was a thing. It was a pretty faithful recreation of the original level and that's pretty impressive but other than that I don't have any opinions. Surprise is very important in these types of levels and because it was a recreation there weren't a lot of surprises to be had for me.

I think Unseen and Mysterious Future is my favorite level so far. I really love levels with the RNG element to them like this. I can't defend the blue goopa section because it was autoscroll, but I liked the general theme between most of the other ones where you have to move fast or else things go badly for you. It was enemy spam, but in my opinion it was very good enemy spam.

[docopoper]

I'm kind of sad to see the box with the key in it have its appearance changed to say "HEY THE KEY IS HERE" more or less, because it was completely fine before, but ah well.

That's because I got a complaint that somebody made it to the end of the secret exit legitimately without remembering to get the key. And since it's not really making the level worse for your average player I decided I may aswell prevent that from happening to someone else if I can. "Figuring out" where the key is is not supposed to be part of the challenge so I shouldn't necessarily rely on people taking a box on the ground with a coin to mean all important.

[ano0maly]

Action of Syo and Bon is what I was talking about when I suggested those games that utilize the traps and trickery from IWBTG games, but with normal platforming levels without the micro-movements from those games. They're intentionally based on catching the player off-guard on first impressions. They can be hilarious when done right.

[Joseph Staleknight]

On exploring the strange land of Zebraspace, Demo and Co. deal with Japanese "insane-core" gaming and mysterious temples with portals to strange and deadly realms.

Action of Syo and Bon (Darkychao): Yep, this is definitely a faithful recreation of Cat Mario, traps and brutal difficulty included. Thankfully, I had a gourd to deal with that sort of nonsense. Still, at least the flavor was pretty appropriate.

Unseen and Mysterious Future (Jolpengammler): Man, this level was rather neat, though very difficult to get through. The gimmick was pretty much based entirely on the randomness of the temples' innards, yet each of those sub-levels were pretty difficult in their own right. For my playthrough I got the Blue Goopa Roller Coaster and Disco Dan's Castle, both of which were pretty hard to get through unscathed (especially the latter since Disco Dan's too cool for gourds). Of course, I imagine that the other sub-levels might have had a bit more let, but I didn't really play the level enough times to find out for myself. Still, a pretty neat way to keep people on their toes, though after the latter set of sublevels I guess the extra Bananasnakes and Shamans were a bit much. Oh well, it's not bad but incredibly hard.

[Narolas]

Man.
Is it just me or is the post game for this episode waaayyy better and more fun than the one in the prelude ?
Like, there's been(and there will be) a few potentially frustrating levels, but I doesn't even come close to stuff like the USS Suboptimal or the crazy-rotating-layers level (in the state they were at when raocow played them).

Good job guys on the testing. I see last levels as the hardest to filter and tweak, because it's really difficult (eh) to make a hard level that's still fun and doesn't rely on fake difficulty.

Every new instance of those talkhaus fangames gets closer and closer to the "Actual real good game" status. I love it.

[jayScribble]

Surreal levels concepts are about. Also, switches.

"Depths of Transcendental Dimension" is one switch-based level that is really cramped and full of enemies, especially ones that can go through blocks. The random architecture of the "cave" makes kicking shells very dangerous, but it is required to progress through it. Luckily, there is an "easy modo" to this level.

"Retrovillle" is three retro video games that are made lethal.
The "Tetris" one seems... iffy about the NPC "blocks" coming down, but otherwise requires you to have a bit of memorization to get to the next section.
The "Frogger" section is much more forgiving with the infinite tries to hit the switches and get through to the midpoint, despite the amount of bullet spam with the cars, rinkas and the "sideways driving school bus".
The "Arkanoid" one is the most "unreasonable" one with the Frogger obstacles invading and interrupting the "breakout" process, not helped by the fact that the blue switch is the hardest one to hit due to the enemies spawning from the right and not giving enough time to break the blocks. All and all, it's a really difficult level.

[Willhart]

The "Arkanoid" one is the most "unreasonable" one with the Frogger obstacles invading and interrupting the "breakout" process, not helped by the fact that the blue switch is the hardest one to hit due to the enemies spawning from the right and not giving enough time to break the blocks. All and all, it's a really difficult level.

Frogger obstacles on the "Arkanoid" level are triggered by breaking colored blocks. Yellow spawns buses and so on. It's easy to dodge when they are not triggered all at the same time.

[jayScribble]

Frogger obstacles on the "Arkanoid" level are triggered by breaking colored blocks. Yellow spawns buses and so on. It's easy to dodge when they are not triggered all at the same time.

I wasn't really paying close attention to that. It just seems random that they come out in the first place.

[Crow]

Depths of the Transcendental Dimension is exactly the kind of level I'd want a tank mode on. 100% enemy-focused, everything in tight corridors? Miserable kind of level if you don't have all the free hits, really. It's at least fairly short though. And yes I totally used tank mode after a number of attempts without it because screw that.

Retroville is a stage I am not a huge fan of. The tetris section's problem is exactly what I pointed out, that you have less and less time to react the longer it goes. Plus the fact that a lot of the obstacles are instant death, too. The frogger section is kind of spammy but also trivialized (thankfully) due to the infinite health. The arkanoid section has way too much going on and it's really a pain to slot yourself into the narrow gaps, especially on the far sides. Overall I just didn't enjoy this one at all, it's an okay idea but just doesn't work for me.

[S.N.N.]

That first level was visually and musically beautiful. I wasn't aware that translucency effects were supported in SMBX, so seeing that in action here was really cool. Wasn't really big on the second level though .. it felt far too spammy and too heavily luck based (especially the first Tetris section in which you have zero time to react as it goes on). I appreciate the idea/gimmick though.

[sedron]

Lots of levels to talk about today, since I missed yesterday entirely.

Refuge Town- I like the Katamari music, but it feels a little bit out of place. The outside section is fairly standard zebraspace stuff. Inside has a few silly gags and some useful items, but otherwise is, again, standard. Overall this town lacks some of the atmosphere and depth of earlier towns, but isn't bad by any means. I think it's comparable to World 8's town, honestly.

The Action of Syo and Bon- Yup, that's Syobon Action all right. It's faithful to the original, if easier because of the upgraded physics and controls. The main issue with this level is pretty unique, though. The first four levels of Syobon Action aren't, strictly speaking, difficult in a challenge sense. The platforming required is pretty easy for the most part. It's learning everything that leads to death upon death. Now, since this is a recreation of a fairly well-known game, a lot of players know what to expect. I got through without a single death (or even hit,) because I knew what was coming, and to do that on a post-game level feels really jarring. The level design ensures it's unfair (and thus Talkhaus postgame,) but for those familiar with the source material it's potentially easier than levels worlds before it. Maybe it would have been neat to see a Syobon Action-inspired original level? Again, it's not bad, but it simply doesn't work as a gimmick on a sizable portion of players.

Unseen and Mysterious Future- Oh hi, enemy spam. Forget the randomized subsections, enemy spam is the real theme. The connecting sections are actually really nice. The slow shamans work surprisingly well in tandem with banana snakes, and the atmosphere is pretty great. The subsections are where things, unsurprisingly, fall apart a bit. Some are better than others. The desert section more or less requires a weapon or for the player to rush like crazy. The moving block section is the best designed of the first three subsections with genuine platforming difficulty and well-designed obstacles. The moving platform area has enough homing paragoopa spam to make it undesirable to play immediately. The Monthra section is likewise way too spammy, and the castle is similarly crowded. Interestingly enough, the easiest of the later sections uses enemy spam in a way that isn't so offensive. There are a huge number of paragoopas, but also ways to deal with them and a short section overall. It's kind of comical. So, this level is good and bad in different ways.

Depths of the Transcendental Dimension- It's aesthetically pleasing, I'll give it that. Beyond looks and music this level is cramped, spammy, forces minor backtracking and is stingy on power-ups by default. No thanks. It's doable, especially with clever usage of the skulls, but I don't care for how difficulty is created here.

Retroville- This is a weird one. The Tetris section is just mean and unfair throughout. You don't get much reaction time at all, ever. The problem simply worsens as it progresses. The Frogger part was a pretty clever implementation of the theme, even if some parts look really janky (I'm like 100% certain school buses need to be facing the direction they're heading in, like any wheeled vehicle.) Arkanoid would probably be fine if every block were breakable. The flip blocks make things way more tedious than necessary. It's all a nice send-up of classic games, but it's also frustrating at times.

[Oddwrath]

What hurts Depths of Transcendental Dimension the most is the fact that it's so claustrophobic. I feel like most people didn't even bother to check that pit shortcut, because at the end they were tired of constantly running into enemies.

Retroville is pretty great, idk what you people are talking about.
Well, ok, the tetris section is pretty bad, with it being most about memorization and all, but the others were great. I would love to see a whole level based on the frogger section.

[Voltgloss]

I'm a day late, but in Unseen and Mysterious Future, I actually had the easiest time completing the moving-platform-with-blue-paragoopa-spam section. Partly because it's shorter than the others. (I totally agree that it's enemy spam, and I think I actually suggested the spawn rate be slightly decreased so a paragoopa didn't always spawn right when you were passing by the upside-down pipe - I can't recall if that was ultimately implemented. What I'm saying is that I, personally, still found it the simplest of the three sections to complete.) I also completed the moving platforms section, yet never completed the desert section.

I do agree that in the second half the grass section is hardest for its enemy spam, and the "GET HER" section of paragoopas is the easiest (DESPITE its enemy spam). Castle falls in the middle - it's most rewarding to a very patient and careful style of play, I think.

Funny how each different player does better or worse in different subsections. I suppose that's kind of the level's point.

[Willhart]

It looked like raocow still enjoyed the levels a lot today.

The tetris section was really well designed and had a lot of twists and variety. The coin pieces, the enemies, and everything else followed the same pattern every time. To me the cleverness justifies the trial and error game play somewhat.

Arkanoid also never shot donuts or other things at the player, unless they were large. They were not able to break the blocks and thus trigger them otherwise. It also gave more power ups after some blocks were pressed. Second half is also shorter and the midpoint was well placed.

I did not really like "the Depths of Transcendental Dimension" as much, but I guess it works as a good challenge for those who appreciate the kind of difficulty it had (complex obstacles, precision, surprises and some chaos). Enemies appearing to the path after the switch was pressed was a neat effect.

[Leet]

I find that Depths really didn't need the easy mode, but I guess some other people probably appreciated it.

Retroville was kind of chaotic but it's still pretty enjoyable to play since its basically minigames in the same engine.

[Ignoritus]

Weird meta stuff like this is why Talkhaus lends itself so much to postgames.

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Depths of Transcendental Dimension
I just murder what I can by throwing straight up with my keyboard. I hate the restriction of the low ceilings. It was made easier like most of the game was, but I still don't want to try the new version.

Weird meta stuff like this is why Talkhaus lends itself so much to postgames.

I think episode 4 is likely going to be postgame style.

[Joseph Staleknight]

In this episode, Demo and Co. explore the monster-infested depths of an otherworldly cavern. Then Demo tries her luck at the arcade. She just barely survives the worst the games have to offer.

The Depths of the Transcendental Dimension (Frozelar): Man, this was a short, sweet level. While the enemies made things congested (especially as I unlocked more of the depths to explore), the level aesthetics were quite a sight to behold, especially when you consider the translucent ground and the sublime music. And of course, the end was a gun-romp through waves of enemies all the way to the leek. You simply can't beat that! (Though the hold just before that section leaves something to be desired...)

Retroville (8flight): I don't remember trips to yesteryear being so dangerous! But yeah, I'd have to say of the three sections, the Frogger area was the easiest to get through since you're pretty much guaranteed as many shots at reaching the top as possible (especially with the beet near the cat planet cat). Tetris, meanwhile, is pretty much based on remembering what types of blocks fall where and when. It's not very complicated, but it's pretty difficult to dodge out of the way if you don't know what comes next.

And then there's Arkanoid. The switches at the very edges of the playing field are hard to get to simply because the paddle doubles back as soon as it comes close to the edge. Thus, you have to break as many blocks there as you can while you have the chance to do so. And that's not even mentioning the surprise re-appearance of the buses and some extra donuts for good measure. Sure, you do have a generous amount of beets and a grace period with a floor beneath your feet, but otherwise good luck hitting all those switches and getting out!

Still, despite the gross difficulty of the level, the concept was pretty fantastic and decently implemented. The midpoint being just before the Arkanoid room helped alleviate some of the frustration as well. I'd say that this level is a neat little nostalgia trip, if a bit eager to express the difficult aspects of the classics as well.

[jayScribble]

The means of transportation in this episode are very unusual. Also, another death spike.

"Abstract Assault" is a horizonal sidescrolling shoot em up, despite what the first "half" is. It's very generous with it's health, mainly due to the amount of momentum you have while moving that fast. Overall, a gimmick level not too difficult that would be too out of place in any other world.

"Family Reunion" has a shell riding gimmick over spikes, and in the later half, blocks attached to shells. The kamikaze shell riding seems iffy about where exactly the character needs to stand to control it, not helped by the fact that you can be shifting positions due to the momentum and the timing you need to get onto the moving platforms. The latter half seems to have more control, but it requires strict timing instead. Overall, it's a level that requires precision in both positioning and timing to progress. (I remember seeing how you can cheese the level as Sheath in action: it was wonderful)

[Willhart]

Every level in the post game is different in some way.

"Abstract Assault" was always super impressive. Docopoper was the only person to change it to my knowledge, since it never had much problems.

"Family Reunion" was remade at least once, and even after that many parts were altered to be slightly more fun. I really like the secrets and the cute story this level has.

[Crow]

Abstract Assault is a shmup. I don't play much shmups but it's easy enough and not overly long so it works well enough I guess!

Family Reunion is hell on earth, kind of. The shell riding in the first half/some of the second half is just way too hard to control and it's easy to send yourself backwards a ways, plus in the first half the shell will gladly careen over the edge. The second half is overall better but the jump back onto that first shell platform is really a bit too precise/semi-random almost, the physics are weird. raocow was happy to be raocow on that "puzzle" though, which is actually a pretty okay design. Overall though I really dislike this level.